NON-EEA Dependant Parent of British Citizen working in Irela

Hi Everyone,

I have been seconded to Ireland from work and have been issued a permanent contract in Ireland. I have already arranged accommodation on a year lease and the landlord has agreed that he can include all of the names in the agreement including my parents.

My intention is to bring my Non-EEA parents to Ireland and exercise my treaty rights and move back to the UK via surinder singh route. My parents are in the process of applying at the local Irish embassy in their country (since my parents needs a VISA to enter Ireland; EU Citizens exercising or planning to exercise Free Movement Rights under Directive 2004/38/EC). The issue is how do I show proof/evidence of dependency?

1) I have been sending money to my parents on a regular basis and audit trail is there from both ends in terms of bank statements for the past 4/5 months, is this sufficient?
2) What else do I need to show to that they are dependant on me?

Any other tips/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

I would also be grateful if anyone can point me in the right direction as to:

1) Bringing non-eea parent to Ireland - Visa process, supporting material, pitfalls
2) What steps taken in terms of medical etc in Ireland for dependant parent. I understand I will be covered since I will be a worker but I will need to take out medical insurance for my folks.
3) Proof to support the RC card application in Ireland - any tips which will also help when obtaining the RC
4) EEA permit application process

Much appreciated.

Hi, Have you started the process??

I am also intending to follow the similar route once I get the British citizenship later this year...

Hi,

Gathering the necessary documentation but I have read on here that it could be quite tricky to get the VISA as they are applying from home country. I was hoping that someone in the forum could assist if they had any insight into this.

Regards

1. Main pitfall, if parents are in non-EU country and you are in Ireland, you will be told they are financially dependent only, and you can continue to send money. Visa refused, you can appeal.
Solution: Get three month visitor visa for parents to visit you in UK. They live with you in UK for two months, joining clubs like library and getting letters from bank at your address. Then they travel on UK visa to Belfast in Northern Ireland. Then they travel WITH YOU and with their passports and your passport and your birth cert from Belfast to Republic of Ireland. Birth cert must be original and is essential, as it is proof of their legal relationship to EU citizen, and you must travel with them. Then they ask for Irish visa, as your dependents, having travelled legally with their EU son. Easy, but only easy if they can get the UK visitor visa.
2. Get EHIC (Eurpean Health Insurace Card)card for yourself before you leave UK, and also bring proof of NHS entitlement for yourself, these are useful if you get sick for first few months. You must buy health insurance for parents, cheapest is fine, as pre-existing conditions not covered anyway. When you get to Ireland you get PPS number for you and parents as they need the number to register as tenants with landlord and for health care and lots of things. Apply for pps number for parents in first three months of their stay in Ireland. Then use your pps number and their pps number to apply for Irish Drugs Payment Scheme card, this covers medicine for you and your dependents but you pay the first 144 euro per month, all medicine is free after you pay 144 euro/month. You will pay 50 euro approx for each doctor visit also. If they have long term illness, they can apply for drugs for that illness under long term illness scheme - it covers things like diabetes and multiple sclerosis.
3. Getting the RC is easy - give your payslips after three months, and again six months later, so in 9-10 months they will get card. You need to keep a detailed diary of the tasks you do each week for your parents, drive to appointments/social activity, cooking, laundry... They also need to join one activity, like religion or library, so that a person outside the family can confirm to state officials that he sees them in Ireland on a regular basis. Literally in case someone is needed to write a letter for them to confirm they are in Ireland - this is usually done by any person outside the family who says 'Mama/Papa ? attend religious service once a week or Mama attends art class once a week or whatever activity they like to do.
4. Pay 100 euro per week per parent into their bank account. This figure is the minimum amount payable by social to a poor person,so Irish state considers it enough to live on for a dependent person. Then use this 100 per week to pay their health insurance, their medicine, their food/rent, so that means they take the money out of the bank each week.
Best of luck

Thank you for your detailed response Brigid, much appreciated.

I have read your previous posts and you have suggested to use UK as an entry point. My parents travel to UK quite regularly but I was advised by an immigration consultant in the UK that I will have issues when bringing them back to the UK if I go through that route. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place as I am starting work beginning of May in Ireland and will not be living in the UK for a considerable time, my only option at present is my parents applying locally in country of origin - pitfall with that as you have mentioned is that dependency will be deemed as financial only so will be difficult to prove religion/emotional issues on paper - do you have any suggestions how I can circumvent this please?

I am concerned that if they are refused the VISA it will impact their future travel arrangements to UK...which will be a huge blow.

Kind regards

Alks wrote:Thank you for your detailed response Brigid, much appreciated.

I have read your previous posts and you have suggested to use UK as an entry point. My parents travel to UK quite regularly but I was advised by an immigration consultant in the UK that I will have issues when bringing them back to the UK if I go through that route. I am stuck between a rock and a hard place as I am starting work beginning of May in Ireland and will not be living in the UK for a considerable time, my only option at present is my parents applying locally in country of origin - pitfall with that as you have mentioned is that dependency will be deemed as financial only so will be difficult to prove religion/emotional issues on paper - do you have any suggestions how I can circumvent this please?

I am concerned that if they are refused the VISA it will impact their future travel arrangements to UK...which will be a huge blow.

Kind regards

Applying EEA family permit (for parents) out of country or country of origin is not advisable. Only do that if they can't travel to Ireland means if they don't have UK visa.
In country RC application are usually approved. Immigration consultant you spoke with is crap. your parents hold UK visa anyway so how this will have any effect when they go back to UK?
4 months financial proof is not sufficient. i supplied documents for last 4.5 years.

Hi there, thank you for your comments. My parents usually obtained the 6 month VISA every time, so they don't any UK visa at present. I have financial proof going back over 5-6 years(supplementing his income) but my dad has now retired and can't work no more hence the full support for the past 4-5 months.

I took this lawyers advice and seems they are taking me on a wrong track!

All,

Thanks for your help so far. Just to let you know we managed to get the entry visas based on the documentation we submitted.

We have applied for RC and got the temporary stamps for 7 months whilst waiting for the outcome for RC's which I have been told may take up to 6 months, any idea if they process this any faster?

Regards
Alks

Hello Alks,

I am also in a similar situation.
Please could you let me know what all documents you submitted for your parents entry visa in their country of origin.
How long did it take to get the entry visa and, was it a visit visa they got for Ireland ?
Did you have to submit 4 years bank statement to show the dependency?

thanks
Pradkk

Alks wrote:All,

Thanks for your help so far. Just to let you know we managed to get the entry visas based on the documentation we submitted.

We have applied for RC and got the temporary stamps for 7 months whilst waiting for the outcome for RC's which I have been told may take up to 6 months, any idea if they process this any faster?

Regards
Alks

Hi Alks,

Please can you list the process you followed and what documents you submitted for your parents.It will be helpfull for a lot of people.

Thanks

Hi Alks,

Congratulations on getting visa for your parents.

Is it possible if you tell us about the documents you attached with your parent's application? I would really appreciate any help. I am in a similar situation. I want to apply RC for my dependent brother and his family as the whole family depends on me. At present they are in Ireland and we might send our application at the end of this month before Christmas holidays. I just want to make sure I include all the relevant documents.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Anyone is welcomed to give their opinions.

Pradkk/all,

• You will have to tick VISA type as short stay C type
• Reason for travel – Make sure you put in the application forms that you are applying under the directive 2004/38/EC
• From my experience the local embassy usually sends the applications to Dublin for processing. Although they state the processing time to be 4 weeks, it will take more like 12 weeks. Therefore insist that to the local embassy that at ALL documents are forwarded to the Dublin
• If you are successful they will grant a single entry type C visa – which states “Join EU citizen dependant”

In terms of documentation:

• Sponsors notarised EU passport copy and original birth certificate (notarised translated birth certificate in English if original not in English)– make sure you make a copy of the entire package as they will take all the original documents apart from the passports and birth certificates
• If parents previously in employment you will need a letter from the employer stating date they ceased the employment
• You will also need letter from state regarding pension entitlement – if any for both parents – this is important but difficult to get depending on country of origin
• You will need at least 6 months of transfer of funds between you and the parents which should be clearly illustrated by bank statements to show that they are financially dependent on you. The parents should withdraw the money on a regular basis to show that they are using the money to support themselves to meet their basic needs
• You will also need to provide your parents’ yearly budget showing how they are spending the money and provide proof of spend e.g. utilities bill, rentals, etc
o In terms of sponsor – need proof of travel to Ireland e.g. flights/ferry tickets etc., if started work supply contract, rental agreement – to show that you are exercising your treaty rights in Ireland – Per the treaty this is not required for the first 3 months but since I had them made the case stronger – they rang my employer to confirm I was actually working with them
• Our package was over 120 pages

There is a useful case which is worth looking at which I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere on the forums:

http://www.europeanrights.eu/public/sen ... _Court.doc

If you got to the INIS website and there is a lot of information under EC Treaty rights.

I hope this helps.

quote="ch123"]Hi Alks,

Congratulations on getting visa for your parents.

Is it possible if you tell us about the documents you attached with your parent's application? I would really appreciate any help. I am in a similar situation. I want to apply RC for my dependent brother and his family as the whole family depends on me. At present they are in Ireland and we might send our application at the end of this month before Christmas holidays. I just want to make sure I include all the relevant documents.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Anyone is welcomed to give their opinions.

Hi Ch123,

For the Residency cards we submitted the same documents listed on my reply above above PLUS:

Ireland dependency documents - so effectively creating a same package but with supporting documents in ireland e.g. parents bank statements showing receipts of funds from you, PRTB letters for all, rental agreement in names of all, utility bills in name of all etc (EU1 form gives the details).

We got the stamp 4 EUFM card within 6 weeks of submission of our applications granting 5 years.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Alks

regards
pradkk

Alks wrote:quote="ch123"]Hi Alks,

Congratulations on getting visa for your parents.

Is it possible if you tell us about the documents you attached with your parent's application? I would really appreciate any help. I am in a similar situation. I want to apply RC for my dependent brother and his family as the whole family depends on me. At present they are in Ireland and we might send our application at the end of this month before Christmas holidays. I just want to make sure I include all the relevant documents.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Anyone is welcomed to give their opinions.

Hi Ch123,

For the Residency cards we submitted the same documents listed on my reply above above PLUS:

Ireland dependency documents - so effectively creating a same package but with supporting documents in ireland e.g. parents bank statements showing receipts of funds from you, PRTB letters for all, rental agreement in names of all, utility bills in name of all etc (EU1 form gives the details).

We got the stamp 4 EUFM card within 6 weeks of submission of our applications granting 5 years.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Alks.
Cheers.

Alks wrote:Pradkk/all,

• You will have to tick VISA type as short stay C type
• Reason for travel – Make sure you put in the application forms that you are applying under the directive 2004/38/EC
• From my experience the local embassy usually sends the applications to Dublin for processing. Although they state the processing time to be 4 weeks, it will take more like 12 weeks. Therefore insist that to the local embassy that at ALL documents are forwarded to the Dublin
• If you are successful they will grant a single entry type C visa – which states “Join EU citizen dependant”

In terms of documentation:

• Sponsors notarised EU passport copy and original birth certificate (notarised translated birth certificate in English if original not in English)– make sure you make a copy of the entire package as they will take all the original documents apart from the passports and birth certificates
• If parents previously in employment you will need a letter from the employer stating date they ceased the employment
• You will also need letter from state regarding pension entitlement – if any for both parents – this is important but difficult to get depending on country of origin
• You will need at least 6 months of transfer of funds between you and the parents which should be clearly illustrated by bank statements to show that they are financially dependent on you. The parents should withdraw the money on a regular basis to show that they are using the money to support themselves to meet their basic needs
• You will also need to provide your parents’ yearly budget showing how they are spending the money and provide proof of spend e.g. utilities bill, rentals, etc
o In terms of sponsor – need proof of travel to Ireland e.g. flights/ferry tickets etc., if started work supply contract, rental agreement – to show that you are exercising your treaty rights in Ireland – Per the treaty this is not required for the first 3 months but since I had them made the case stronger – they rang my employer to confirm I was actually working with them
• Our package was over 120 pages

There is a useful case which is worth looking at which I haven’t seen mentioned anywhere on the forums:

http://www.europeanrights.eu/public/sen ... _Court.doc

If you got to the INIS website and there is a lot of information under EC Treaty rights.

I hope this helps.

Hi Alks and everyone else,
I am keen to apply for Type C visa for my father (widower)
Just looking for some help to understand what constitutes "dependent family member"

1) My father is a pensioner(used to work for Govt of India), would that disqualify him from being a dependent? My mother was also entitled to pension and they managed expenses with their joint income, but she passed away recently and hence my father is alone now. The reduction in income means he needs to be supported each month going forward.
2) Is there any guidance on minimum income amount by country, above which financial support from EU sponsor is deemed unnecessary thereby making the family member as independent? I mean what is the distinction between need and extravagance here.
3) You mentioned about "letter from state regarding pension entitlement". Could you elaborate the purpose for it.

Thanks for your help.

Hi Alks and everyone else,
I am keen to apply for Type C visa for my father (widower)
Just looking for some help to understand what constitutes "dependent family member"

1) My father is a pensioner(used to work for Govt of India), would that disqualify him from being a dependent? My mother was also entitled to pension and they managed expenses with their joint income, but she passed away recently and hence my father is alone now. The reduction in income means he needs to be supported each month going forward.
2) Is there any guidance on minimum income amount by country, above which financial support from EU sponsor is deemed unnecessary thereby making the family member as independent? I mean what is the distinction between need and extravagance here.
3) You mentioned about "letter from state regarding pension entitlement". Could you elaborate the purpose for it.

Thanks for your help.[/quote]

Dello123,

I am not sure to be honest, can you read on the CJEU cases relating to Jia as well as Flora May Reyes v. Migrationsverket. Also read on the link I provided on the high court case above. Hopefully It will give you some guidance.

Regards

Thanks Alka, i have gone through the case laws and they will certainily be useful for collecting documentation.

Are you able to share the various types of documents that you submitted in your application. Below is what i had in mind
a) 6 months banks statement ( showing pension + remmitance from sponsor) & withdrawals in cash/online bill payments.
b) estimate of annual living expenses. Given most expenses in India are incurred in cash do we need receipts as well? Major heads of expenditure like household help, attendant on call, grocery etc are paid in cash.
c) sponsors phone records to show calls made to dependent
d) Certificate of retirement from Govt of India
e) Death certificate of spouse
f) proof of relationship between sponsor and dependent
g) photographs from childhood showing dependent and sponsor

the above are only to prove dependency besides other documents that are required in "C" type application

Any other forum members could suggest?

thanks a ton

Alks wrote:
• You will have to tick VISA type as short stay C type
• Reason for travel – Make sure you put in the application forms that you are applying under the directive 2004/38/EC

• If you are successful they will grant a single entry type C visa – which states “Join EU citizen dependant”

Alks, did u mean Visa Type D coz there is no Visa Type C for Join family?

sanky_001 wrote:

Alks wrote:
• You will have to tick VISA type as short stay C type
• Reason for travel – Make sure you put in the application forms that you are applying under the directive 2004/38/EC

• If you are successful they will grant a single entry type C visa – which states “Join EU citizen dependant”

Alks, did u mean Visa Type D coz there is no Visa Type C for Join family?

Hi Sanky_001
it is C type visa. Linky here
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... 20citizens

dello123 wrote:

sanky_001 wrote:

Alks wrote:
• You will have to tick VISA type as short stay C type
• Reason for travel – Make sure you put in the application forms that you are applying under the directive 2004/38/EC

• If you are successful they will grant a single entry type C visa – which states “Join EU citizen dependant”

Alks, did u mean Visa Type D coz there is no Visa Type C for Join family?

Hi Sanky_001
it is C type visa. Linky here
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... 20citizens

Hi dello,

Thanks for your response

That is brilliant. I dint know about it.

I want to move to Ireland with my mom. May i know frkm where do i apply for this visa?

1. Is it from my mom's home country?

2. Or from the UK when she visits me on a family VISA?

Also at what point do i apply in terms of moving to ireland :

1. After securing a job in Ireland?

2. Or moving to Ireland to secure a job in order to exercise treaty rights?

Appreciate your time

Hi Sanky_001
it is C type visa. Linky here
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Fa ... 20citizens[/quote]

Hi dello,

Thanks for your response

That is brilliant. I dint know about it.

I want to move to Ireland with my mom. May i know frkm where do i apply for this visa?

1. Is it from my mom's home country?

2. Or from the UK when she visits me on a family VISA?

Also at what point do i apply in terms of moving to ireland :

1. After securing a job in Ireland?

2. Or moving to Ireland to secure a job in order to exercise treaty rights?

Appreciate your time [/quote]

Your mom will need to apply from home country once you have moved to ireland, You need not wait for a job as long as you can prove that you are able to support her stay.

Thanks dello123. Appreciate your swift response!

I will certainly look into apply visa under this category.

All the best

Hi Brigid from Ireland,

I find your response very interesting.

Can you please email me, i have a similar case which i will like to run pass you.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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