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Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

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Nenepep
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Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:32 am

Hello All,
I got married to my british partner in feb 2014,we met in 2010 and we have a 2 year old son,expecting our second child. I was currently on a visitors visa and came into the uk frequently to see him,never overstaying. We put in our application for leave to remain from within the Uk on may 28 and got a call on july 2 from our lawyer that it had been approved.
It stated as follows, you do not meet all the immigration rules for a grant of leave under R-LTRP 1.1 (a) (b) and (c) of appendix fm because you have overstayed more than 28days,you have not provided enough evidence to show the financial requirements of £18,600 and you have not supplied english language test certificate. We have endorsed your biometric resident permit with limited leave to remain in the uk for 30 months . In other to qualify for settlement you must have completed a continuous period of 120 months(thats 10years).
My issue here is all of their grounds for the decision are wrong. I have never overstayed in the uk and i had been travelling in and out since 2005. My partner makes well over £25000 pounds which we sent statements and payslips along with our application. I am bachelors degree graduate and i included my certificate,as my lawyer had checked if it qualified for the exemption of english test.
So sorry for the long story here, my question is how do i get them to change this decision and grant me the right leave to remain as they have clearly based their decision on wrong grounds?
Thanks

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Wanderer » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:48 am

How often and what was the pattern of stay on visit visas? Did you stay more than 6 months in any 12?
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:54 am

Wanderer wrote:How often and what was the pattern of stay on visit visas? Did you stay more than 6 months in any 12?
No,I always left at the right time. I travelled in and out with my son who had gotten his british passport. I gave birth to him here in the Uk and we paid full maternity cost as i was on visitors visa and we honestly didn't want anything to spoil my records as i had a good one. Thank you

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by CR001 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:20 pm

I am fairly certain that you cannot switch in country to any visa category if you are on a visitor visa. Spouse visa needs to be applied from your home country as Entry Clearance. You can only apply to switch in country if you are on a visa category that allows it (work permit/PBS/Ancestry etc). Your solicitor should have told you this.
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Casa » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:35 pm

I can't explain why they have used financial and language as reasons for refusal but I can confirm that it isn't possible to switch from visitor to spouse from within the UK. You're fortunate that they have granted a visa outside of the Rules on a 10 year route.
It could have been refused outright.
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:03 pm

CR001 wrote:I am fairly certain that you cannot switch in country to any visa category if you are on a visitor visa. Spouse visa needs to be applied from your home country as Entry Clearance. You can only apply to switch in country if you are on a visa category that allows it (work permit/PBS/Ancestry etc). Your solicitor should have told you this.
As i mentioned i had been coming in and out of the Uk on visitors visa since 2005. Never overstaying,never breaking any rules or taking public funds.we even paid for the delivery of our child who was born british as his dad is a british citizen. Our lawyer did mention that the application could be refused and we could appeal if that was the case. We got married here in the Uk and i'm currently expecting our second child. People do switch to various categories here in the Uk especially if you have genuine reasons. I just feel they shouldn't use wrong decisions to make a judgement on our case. Is it possible to have it looked into or could they take the leave of me if i query them?

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Wanderer » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:17 pm

Why did they say you'd overstayed by over 28 days?

I think they've granted leave as FLR(FP) and to be honest you where lucky to get that since switching from a visit visa is not permitted unless under extreme compassionate grounds. I presume you didn't pay a fee?

To right it I think you'll have to return to your home country and apply for a spouse visa on form VAF4A in the proper manner.
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by CR001 » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:23 pm

Nenepep wrote:People do switch to various categories here in the Uk especially if you have genuine reasons.
But the rules are very clear that a person in the UK on a visitor visa cannot switch into another category (spouse, Ancestry, study or work visas).

As Wanderer and Casa have said, you are lucky you got a visa on the 10 year route because they could have refused your application outright.

When does/did your visitor visa expire?
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Amber » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:26 pm

Just put in an application for FLR(M) now that you have valid leave and that'll put you on a 5 year route to settlement. A1 English required in addition to the Financial Requirement. Your solicitor should have explained this!
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:46 pm

CR001 wrote:
Nenepep wrote:People do switch to various categories here in the Uk especially if you have genuine reasons.
But the rules are very clear that a person in the UK on a visitor visa cannot switch into another category (spouse, Ancestry, study or work visas).

As Wanderer and Casa have said, you are lucky you got a visa on the 10 year route because they could have refused your application outright.

When does/did your visitor visa expire?
I currently have a 2year visit visa on my passport and it expires in august. They could have mentioned that i am not allowed to apply here as their reason and based it on that,but clearly that wasn't mentioned.

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:48 pm

Amber wrote:Just put in an application for FLR(M) now that you have valid leave and that'll put you on a 5 year route to settlement. A1 English required in addition to the Financial Requirement. Your solicitor should have explained this!
Amber,do you think its possible to put in the application now that i was just given the 120 months limited leave?

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Wanderer » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:51 pm

Nenepep wrote:
Amber wrote:Just put in an application for FLR(M) now that you have valid leave and that'll put you on a 5 year route to settlement. A1 English required in addition to the Financial Requirement. Your solicitor should have explained this!
Amber,do you think its possible to put in the application now that i was just given the 120 months limited leave?
You can. Amber is right no need to leave the country to apply.

Just the financial test, the fee, the English test.
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:58 pm

Wanderer wrote:Why did they say you'd overstayed by over 28 days?

I think they've granted leave as FLR(FP) and to be honest you where lucky to get that since switching from a visit visa is not permitted unless under extreme compassionate grounds. I presume you didn't pay a fee?

To right it I think you'll have to return to your home country and apply for a spouse visa on form VAF4A in the proper manner.
I really dont know where dey came up with the overstaying part.i never have. I did pay the application fee of 600plus and paid my lawyer too....lol. I really think there's a mistake here because all the reasons mentioned by the home office clearly does not apply to me and are enough reasons to actually refuse an application,which they didn't
I also know i'm lucky to be granted the leave but they also aren't used to applicants who are as honest as we are i guess.

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Wanderer » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:04 pm

Nenepep wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Why did they say you'd overstayed by over 28 days?

I think they've granted leave as FLR(FP) and to be honest you where lucky to get that since switching from a visit visa is not permitted unless under extreme compassionate grounds. I presume you didn't pay a fee?

To right it I think you'll have to return to your home country and apply for a spouse visa on form VAF4A in the proper manner.
I really dont know where dey came up with the overstaying part.i never have. I did pay the application fee of 600plus and paid my lawyer too....lol. I really think there's a mistake here because all the reasons mentioned by the home office clearly does not apply to me and are enough reasons to actually refuse an application,which they didn't
I also know i'm lucky to be granted the leave but they also aren't used to applicants who are as honest as we are i guess.
How much time did you spend in UK over the period of the two year visit visa? There is a rule that you have to be a 'genuine visitor', and no more than 6 months stay in any 12 is the guide the IO's use to judge that. If you;d been effectively living here in a visit visa for most of a year the ECO could have considered this overstay and granted FLR(FP). If so (and I'm guessing like mad!) you have been really lucky to get what you got - normally UKVI can be a bit brutal.....
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:02 pm

Wanderer wrote:
Nenepep wrote:
Wanderer wrote:Why did they say you'd overstayed by over 28 days?

I think they've granted leave as FLR(FP) and to be honest you where lucky to get that since switching from a visit visa is not permitted unless under extreme compassionate grounds. I presume you didn't pay a fee?

To right it I think you'll have to return to your home country and apply for a spouse visa on form VAF4A in the proper manner.
I really dont know where dey came up with the overstaying part.i never have. I did pay the application fee of 600plus and paid my lawyer too....lol. I really think there's a mistake here because all the reasons mentioned by the home office clearly does not apply to me and are enough reasons to actually refuse an application,which they didn't
I also know i'm lucky to be granted the leave but they also aren't used to applicants who are as honest as we are i guess.

How much time did you spend in UK over the period of the two year visit visa? There is a rule that you have to be a 'genuine visitor', and no more than 6 months stay in any 12 is the guide the IO's use to judge that. If you;d been effectively living here in a visit visa for most of a year the ECO could have considered this overstay and granted FLR(FP). If so (and I'm guessing like mad!) you have been really lucky to get what you got - normally UKVI can be a bit brutal.....
We never really calculated it that way to be honest. I just know i never elapsed the 6 months. 2013 feb i returned home after spending 6months from 2012 , i came back into Uk in may of 2013 and left in october, then i returned again in november,planned to leave in may.then my partner suggested we get married since we were allowed to do so.he had proposed on my bday 2013,shortly before i was to leave,we found out i was pregnant and then started having complications and we decided to apply from here. We figured we'd rather be here together and try to get it sorted than me go home and get stuck with our child and the pregnancy. I always travelled with our child.
Do you think I should go for the flr(m) application to have it reduced or should we write them to review their decision since they made the mistakes. Can they overturn their decision to a refusal......HOPE NOT....

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Amber » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:01 pm

What don't you understand about what's been explained? You were on a visitors visa and thus were not allowed to apply for FLR(M), no ifs or buts about it.
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:41 pm

Amber wrote:What don't you understand about what's been explained? You were on a visitors visa and thus were not allowed to apply for FLR(M), no ifs or buts about it.
I don't understand that i was not refused based on that grounds ,no where in the letter was it stated that i was on visitors visa.Instead,if that is the case,why base the decision of granting me the ten year route on grounds that don't apply to me.
Amber ,my sincere concern now is can i switch to the FLR(M), when can I apply for it? Or do I still write to review the mistakes and if making them of their mistakes wont result in them reversing it to a refusal.
Thank you.

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by tunjy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:48 am

Nenepep wrote:
Amber wrote:What don't you understand about what's been explained? You were on a visitors visa and thus were not allowed to apply for FLR(M), no ifs or buts about it.
I don't understand that i was not refused based on that grounds ,no where in the letter was it stated that i was on visitors visa.Instead,if that is the case,why base the decision of granting me the ten year route on grounds that don't apply to me.
Amber ,my sincere concern now is can i switch to the FLR(M), when can I apply for it? Or do I still write to review the mistakes and if making them of their mistakes wont result in them reversing it to a refusal.
Thank you.

Pls i will like u to go and read carefully and understand: immigration directorate instructions
chapter 8: appendix FM family members
consideration of paragragh EX.1:Exception.


You do not have leave to remain in the uk, you only have visitor visa ,therefore you fall in the same level with illegal immigrant and overstayer. 5 years route is for partner/spouse that meet all the requirements (leave to remain is one them not visitor visa). 10 years route is for partner/spouse that do not meet all the requirements.

A friend of mine was an illegal immigrant has a british partner and a british child. He applied for leave to remain based on family member of a british citizen making reference to Appendix FM family ,paragragh EX.1:Exception. He was given 2.5 years,10 years route to ILR ( even if that my friend is overstayer or on visitor visa, he still has to go through 10 years route to ILR ).

Even with your visitor visa and you meet other requirements,you still have to go through 10 years route to ILR bcos you do not meet ALL requirements.

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Amber » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:23 am

You can switch to FLR(M) at any time, if you meet the requirements. You can't ask them to reconsider.
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:11 am

tunjy wrote:
Nenepep wrote:
Amber wrote:What don't you understand about what's been explained? You were on a visitors visa and thus were not allowed to apply for FLR(M), no ifs or buts about it.
I don't understand that i was not refused based on that grounds ,no where in the letter was it stated that i was on visitors visa.Instead,if that is the case,why base the decision of granting me the ten year route on grounds that don't apply to me.
Amber ,my sincere concern now is can i switch to the FLR(M), when can I apply for it? Or do I still write to review the mistakes and if making them of their mistakes wont result in them reversing it to a refusal.
Thank you.

Pls i will like u to go and read carefully and understand: immigration directorate instructions
chapter 8: appendix FM family members
consideration of paragragh EX.1:Exception.


You do not have leave to remain in the uk, you only have visitor visa ,therefore you fall in the same level with illegal immigrant and overstayer. 5 years route is for partner/spouse that meet all the requirements (leave to remain is one them not visitor visa). 10 years route is for partner/spouse that do not meet all the requirements.

A friend of mine was an illegal immigrant has a british partner and a british child. He applied for leave to remain based on family member of a british citizen making reference to Appendix FM family ,paragragh EX.1:Exception. He was given 2.5 years,10 years route to ILR ( even if that my friend is overstayer or on visitor visa, he still has to go through 10 years route to ILR ).

Even with your visitor visa and you meet other requirements,you still have to go through 10 years route to ILR bcos you do not meet ALL requirements.
Tunjy, i dont think you read my comments properly. I have already been granted leave to remain on the 10 year route.I already have my biometrics card.

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:12 am

Amber wrote:You can switch to FLR(M) at any time, if you meet the requirements. You can't ask them to reconsider.

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:12 am

Nenepep wrote:
Amber wrote:You can switch to FLR(M) at any time, if you meet the requirements. You can't ask them to reconsider.
Thanks a lot Amber,really appreciate the info

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flr(m) submitted but got 10yr flr.lawyer misguided us

Post by Nenepep » Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:28 pm

Hello,

I had posted my situation years back but now its been 2.5 years after and time put in an application. I filled the flr m form in 2014, as i was married to my British partner and we had a son(british too). But was granted the 10year visa based on family life,which was a shock then as we thought i would either be refused(i was on visitors visa) or granted 5years spousal visa. Well i had come here and was adviced to go ahead and switch to spouse visa,that is to resubmit the form.We were misguided by our lawyer who said we should wait and we could still apply for the next 2.5 years in this category and then switch to ILR after 5 years.

So sorry for the long story, just to give an insight. So now we want to put in my application and we still meet all the financial and necessary requirements for the spouse visa. Please,My question is should i just fill the flrm for the spouse route now? If so how do i fill the section 2 ? This is not my first flrm form and it is not the first time i have applied in the spouse category

2.3 Please indicate what stage of extension of leave you are applying for or why you are choosing to extend your current leave in one of the above categories.
*First period of leave to remain (following an initial period of entry clearance as a partner of a settled person, or following an initial period of entry clearance as a ancé(e) or proposed civil partner of a settled person - 6 months)
*Second period of leave to remain (following initial grant of leave to remain).
*You are making a first application from within the UK but have not previously had leave to enter/remain as a partner.

Also, do i need the A1 or A2 English test. I had submitted my Bsc degree from my University abroad for my previous application which our lawyer said met the requirement but HO said i did not meet the english requirement.

Once again,please forgive me for the long story. I would appreciate your help and advice to get it right this time. Thanks

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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by vinny » Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:24 am

M.
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Re: Home Office Grants The wrong Leave On Wrong Grounds

Post by Nenepep » Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:26 am

vinny wrote:M.
Hi Vinny,

I did state that i had been adviced here previously but unfortunately i was miguided by our Lawyer and did not apply then as adviced. I am a bit confused as to what English test to take . Would i need A1 or A2 and how do i fill the section 2.3 on the form as i had filled for the same grounds previously.
Thank you

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