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Polygamy!!!

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5am1224
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Polygamy!!!

Post by 5am1224 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:28 pm

Hi,
I am just wondering, are muslim men with dual nationality are legally allowed to marry a 2nd wife outside the UK if the other country in which the marriage is celebrated permits and allows polygamy with no intention off applying for the 2nd wife to settle in the UK?

I really appreciate your response.
Thanks

sophia20
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Re: Polygamy!!!

Post by sophia20 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:01 pm

Yeh you can and I've read you can bring them over as well! Best to make sure tho :)

http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/family/oth ... 00406.html

Sorry read tht wrong lol you can't bring a second spouse over if your already legally married to someone in the UK.
Last edited by sophia20 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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CR001
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Re: Polygamy!!!

Post by CR001 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:19 pm

I've read you can bring them over as well!
Not sure if you are being serious or not. But to make it clear that you cannot bring 'second wives' to the UK as the UK does not recognise polygamy. Only one spouse is allowed under any of the visa categories under UK immigration rules.
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Wanderer
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Re: Polygamy!!!

Post by Wanderer » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:16 am

I wonder though, what would happen if a second wife married in local law, got a visit visa say, arrived in UK, would that be practising polygamy in the eyes of UK law, and would the husband be prosecuted?

God, imagine having two Mothers in law......
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

5am1224
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Re: Polygamy!!!

Post by 5am1224 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:31 am

Thanks guys for your response.

Are you sure it's not illegal according to the UK Law to marry a second wife abroad if you hold 2 nationality!!! :!:

85 East
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Re: Polygamy!!!

Post by 85 East » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:48 am

I really hope this is some sort of joke. In short though, no a second husband or wife (polyandry/polygamy) would not be recognised in the UK if you are domiciled in the UK.
Did both parties have the personal capacity under the law of his / her domicile to enter into the marriage? Precisely what personal capacity involves will vary from one legal system to another, but it may well include the parties not being within any prohibited degrees of relationship (that is, not being too closely related, for example, brother and sister, mother and son), the parties having reached the minimum age at which marriage is lawful, and the parties being respectively male and female. (Note: No person domiciled in any part of the UK has the capacity to enter into a polygamous marriage. Section 11(d) of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 is the authority regarding a party domiciled in England and Wales. The Act states that a marriage is not polygamous if at its inception neither party has any spouse additional to the other. There is corresponding legislation for Scotland and for Northern Ireland.)
Is the marriage valid under the laws of the country in which it was celebrated, that is, did the form of the polygamous marriage ceremony comply with the requirements of the laws of that country?
Source https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ages-set14.

So from what you are describing, if you were to hypothetically marry a second person outside the UK it would not be recognised in the UK as you appear to be domiciled in the UK.

5am1224
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Re: Polygamy!!!

Post by 5am1224 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:26 am

85 East wrote:I really hope this is some sort of joke. In short though, no a second husband or wife (polyandry/polygamy) would not be recognised in the UK if you are domiciled in the UK.
Did both parties have the personal capacity under the law of his / her domicile to enter into the marriage? Precisely what personal capacity involves will vary from one legal system to another, but it may well include the parties not being within any prohibited degrees of relationship (that is, not being too closely related, for example, brother and sister, mother and son), the parties having reached the minimum age at which marriage is lawful, and the parties being respectively male and female. (Note: No person domiciled in any part of the UK has the capacity to enter into a polygamous marriage. Section 11(d) of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 is the authority regarding a party domiciled in England and Wales. The Act states that a marriage is not polygamous if at its inception neither party has any spouse additional to the other. There is corresponding legislation for Scotland and for Northern Ireland.)
Is the marriage valid under the laws of the country in which it was celebrated, that is, did the form of the polygamous marriage ceremony comply with the requirements of the laws of that country?
Source https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ages-set14.

So from what you are describing, if you were to hypothetically marry a second person outside the UK it would not be recognised in the UK as you appear to be domiciled in the UK.
Thanks for your reply.

I am pretty sure that the 2nd marriage will not be recognised in the UK, but my question is: is it illegal to marry a second wife using the other nationality in a country permits Polygamy? in another simple way, Is it Legal or Illegal!!!

Thanks

Mauser1905
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Re: Polygamy!!!

Post by Mauser1905 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:02 am

not anywhere close to legal expertise.

every courts have jurisdictions, so does laws for the land or country. So if polygamy were to be legal in x country, UK's laws may not forcibly make it illegal in the x country, but it may not recognise it as legal within UK jurisdiction.

5am1224
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Re: Polygamy!!!

Post by 5am1224 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:29 pm

Mauser1905 wrote:not anywhere close to legal expertise.

every courts have jurisdictions, so does laws for the land or country. So if polygamy were to be legal in x country, UK's laws may not forcibly make it illegal in the x country, but it may not recognise it as legal within UK jurisdiction.
Thanks Mauser for your response.

so if somehow the UK authority find out about the 2nd marriage, when registering a baby from the 2nd marriage perhaps, would the husband gets in trouble!! can the baby still be registered at the British embassy!!

Thanks

Mauser1905
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Re: Polygamy!!!

Post by Mauser1905 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:53 pm

5am1224 wrote:
Mauser1905 wrote:not anywhere close to legal expertise.

every courts have jurisdictions, so does laws for the land or country. So if polygamy were to be legal in x country, UK's laws may not forcibly make it illegal in the x country, but it may not recognise it as legal within UK jurisdiction.
Thanks Mauser for your response.

so if somehow the UK authority find out about the 2nd marriage, when registering a baby from the 2nd marriage perhaps, would the husband gets in trouble!! can the baby still be registered at the British embassy!!

Thanks
There is no question of registering baby from 2nd (in a polygamous) marriage from the x country in British embassy in x country. Remember UK does not recognise polygamy. It does not necessarily punish you for legally doing in x country where it is allowed.

To be honest I am not sure how the UK authority would be in any position in regards to put you in trouble here in the UK.

5am1224
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Second marriage

Post by 5am1224 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:33 pm

Hi,

A friend of mine was married in the UK and was getting divorced from his first marriage, he holds dual nationality, during the divorce process he went abroad and got married in a country that permits and allows polygamy, his 2nd marriage was registered abroad, he is now divorced from his 1st marriage and wants to register his baby as a British citizen and then apply for his wife to join him and settle in the UK, the question is, can he apply using the marriage certificate issued abroad even though the marriage date was before he got his final divorce from his 1st marriage? would he face any issues with UK law and Immigration?

Your response will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Wanderer
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Re: Second marriage

Post by Wanderer » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:34 pm

5am1224 wrote:Hi,

A friend of mine was married in the UK and was getting divorced from his first marriage, he holds dual nationality, during the divorce process he went abroad and got married in a country that permits and allows polygamy, his 2nd marriage was registered abroad, he is now divorced from his 1st marriage and wants to register his baby as a British citizen and then apply for his wife to join him and settle in the UK, the question is, can he apply using the marriage certificate issued abroad even though the marriage date was before he got his final divorce from his 1st marriage? would he face any issues with UK law and Immigration?

Your response will be much appreciated.

Thanks
Yes, needs to divorce the first wife legally and properly.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

5am1224
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Re: Second marriage

Post by 5am1224 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:41 pm

Hi,
Thanks for your response.

His 1st marriage already ended and he got his final divorce, but again his 2nd marriage certificate has been issued and registered abroad before he was fully divorced, so can he still apply for his 2nd wife to join him in the UK using the marriage certificate from abroad as he used his 2nd nationality to get married?

Thanks

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Casa
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Re: Second marriage

Post by Casa » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:22 pm

His second marriage won't be recognised under British law as he had not been granted a divorce decree nisi from his previous marriage in the UK. Therefore, he is unable to apply for a spouse visa. His only option would be to apply for a fiance visa and marry in the UK.
On another issue, I see from your duplicate question on this that the second marriage took place in Morocco. The moudawana (family code) is now very strict regarding re-marriage, especially for the increased rights of women. Did he declare the existence of the first wife when he submitted court papers in Morocco? If he kept the existence of his first wife from the second one, she will find out if he applies for a fiance visa as she will have to submit the divorce decree certificate with her application.
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Re: Second marriage

Post by Wanderer » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:23 pm

An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

5am1224
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Re: Second marriage

Post by 5am1224 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:17 am

Hi,
Thanks for your response.
Yes the 2nd wife are aware of the husband 1st marriage.

The most important question that no one answered is, Did he commit a Bigamy offense according to the UK law!!

Thanks

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Re: Second marriage

Post by CR001 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:21 am

Your friend was not free to marry a second time because he was not divorced from the first wife who he married in the UK under UK law. So in effect he was married to two women at the same time. Your friend should have waited until he had the final divorce decree absolute before marrying again.
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Re: Second marriage

Post by Casa » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:37 am

He won't be prosecuted for bigamy as the second marriage took place outside of the UK under Moroccan law. However, as you've already been advised, this marriage won't be recognised as legal under British law, so a spouse visa application will fail.
I suspect however that as he registered his marriage with his Moroccan ID card (not with his British Passport) that the Moroccan authorities weren't aware of the existence of the first wife. If they had been, she would have to sign to give permission to take a second wife. This may present the question as to whether the second marriage is even legal under Moroccan law. :|
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5am1224
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Re: Second marriage

Post by 5am1224 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:00 am

As far as I know his 2nd marriage is 100% legal without a doubt.
The thing is, he had some issues with his 2nd wife's family and they went ahead and submitted all the documentation including the 2nd wife marriage certificate to the UK to apply for a British passport for the baby, so the UK authority are aware of the 2nd marriage and it's date, would he get any kind of issues with the Brith authority??

Now, can he re-marry his 2nd wife after obtaining a permission from the British high commission in Morocco if the marriage that took place in Morocco will not be recognised!!

Thanks

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Re: Second marriage

Post by Casa » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:17 am

I've already said that he won't be prosecuted.
He can't 're-marry' in Morocco as the marriage has been legally registered under local law. As I previously advised, his only option will be to apply for a fiance visa and marry in the UK within 6 months of being granted the visa.

I assume his in-laws submitted a MN1 application for his child. I'm not sure that the mother (as the non-British Citizen) can submit the application, I believe that this would have to be submitted by the father. Others who have a clearer understanding of the registration rules will correct me if I'm wrong. He should be aware that a registration for BC is likely to take 6-12 months for a straightforward application.
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Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

5am1224
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Re: Second marriage

Post by 5am1224 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:07 pm

I know someone who has been in the same situation and he manged to re-marry his 2nd wife with no issue at all but the British authority didn't know about the marriage in Morocco.

As you said that he wont be able to re-marry his 2nd wife, is this because the marriage already been registered in Morocco ' but that friend manged to re-marry his 2nd wife' or because the British authority aware of the exciting marriage which took place in Morocco!!

Please let me know.
Thanks

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Casa
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Re: Second marriage

Post by Casa » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:46 pm

1. How would he be able to marry the same person again in Morocco when he is already legally married to her under Moroccan law? :roll:
2. He can re-marry the second wife in the UK as the Moroccan marriage will be void. i.e it doesn't exist according to British law.
3. The only way he can bring his second wife into the UK to marry here will be through a fiancee visa. i.e she doesn't qualify for a spouse visa.

If he attempts to submit a spouse settlement visa in Morocco the Entry Clearance Officer will need to see:
1. The divorce decree absolute certificate relating to his UK marriage & divorce
2. The Moroccan marriage certificate

It will be obvious that the Moroccan marriage took place before he was legally able to re-marry.

Also bear in mind that all immigration information is held on record by the UKVI and shared with other Government departments. They will have details of his previous UK marriage if this information was given in any previous visa applications.
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5am1224
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Re: Second marriage

Post by 5am1224 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:57 pm

Thank you very much Casa for your mega response.

Don't you think that once the baby has been issued a British passport then the mother could just apply for a visa based on her British baby without the help of the father at all!!! is it possible!! and is it a straight forward application??

Thanks

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Re: Second marriage

Post by Wanderer » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:01 pm

5am1224 wrote:Thank you very much Casa for your mega response.

Don't you think that once the baby has been issued a British passport then the mother could just apply for a visa based on her British baby without the help of the father at all!!! is it possible!! and is it a straight forward application??

Thanks
No
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

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Re: Second marriage

Post by Casa » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:17 pm

5am1224 wrote:Thank you very much Casa for your mega response.

Don't you think that once the baby has been issued a British passport then the mother could just apply for a visa based on her British baby without the help of the father at all!!! is it possible!! and is it a straight forward application??

Thanks
Wanderer has summed it up in one. My understanding is that the father would need to have sole responsibility and care of the child and she could only apply for a visa that would allow her to have access. If her family have rushed to register British Citizenship for the baby to enable the mother an easy route into the UK, they have been misguided in their actions.
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Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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