Removal notice question

Very brief history:

November 2013 - We got married, my Indian husbands student visa expired October 2013. We applied for a spouse visa immediately after marriage but it was refused on the basis that he didnt have the English language certificate and hadn't completed his degree.
Early 2014 - He got the English certificate, we got a solicitor who wrote to UKBA and asked them to reconsider, they refused but didn't issue any kind of removal notice, nor did they offer an appeal route. They said I should go and live in India with my husband! Solicitor said we could apply under "right to family life", we let it drift and he became a substantial overstayer.
Last week - Our solicitor gets a letter from HO asking if there were any "changes" in my husbands circumstances since our last application. She said this was unusual and it does seem a little odd. Anyway they gave us all of a week to reply! We have done so. We said he has his English certificate, listed all the reasons why he and I couldn't go to India. Now we're waiting.

Has anyone else had a letter like this? We're not sure what to expect but bracing ourselves for a removal notice.

My main question is, can UKBA enforce "where" my husband goes? As in can they make him go to India? We're thinking of moving to Ireland for a few months for the Surinder Singh route, which appears to have worked, then not worked, but is now working again! (with all the changes in rules!) Is this the case? Can't we just go straight to Ireland? Surely they can only enforce him leaving the UK, isn't it up to him what he does from there? I don't know, hence my question.

We have the money to go to Ireland and stay for a while. There's work I can do. We researched it before and it seems feasible. Any advice would be welcome.

stormystar99 wrote:Very brief history:

November 2013 - We got married, my Indian husbands student visa expired October 2013. We applied for a spouse visa immediately after marriage but it was refused on the basis that he didnt have the English language certificate and hadn't completed his degree.
Early 2014 - He got the English certificate, we got a solicitor who wrote to UKBA and asked them to reconsider, they refused but didn't issue any kind of removal notice, nor did they offer an appeal route. They said I should go and live in India with my husband! Solicitor said we could apply under "right to family life", we let it drift and he became a substantial overstayer.
Last week - Our solicitor gets a letter from HO asking if there were any "changes" in my husbands circumstances since our last application. She said this was unusual and it does seem a little odd. Anyway they gave us all of a week to reply! We have done so. We said he has his English certificate, listed all the reasons why he and I couldn't go to India. Now we're waiting.

Has anyone else had a letter like this? We're not sure what to expect but bracing ourselves for a removal notice.

My main question is, can UKBA enforce "where" my husband goes? As in can they make him go to India? We're thinking of moving to Ireland for a few months for the Surinder Singh route, which appears to have worked, then not worked, but is now working again! (with all the changes in rules!) Is this the case? Can't we just go straight to Ireland? Surely they can only enforce him leaving the UK, isn't it up to him what he does from there? I don't know, hence my question.

We have the money to go to Ireland and stay for a while. There's work I can do. We researched it before and it seems feasible. Any advice would be welcome.

Is there a reason why he cannot apply for a 'spouse visa' (VAF4A) from India? Probably the simplest solution...

physicskate wrote:

stormystar99 wrote:Is there a reason why he cannot apply for a 'spouse visa' (VAF4A) from India? Probably the simplest solution...

Ok, firstly, India just isn't an option for me. I could go into why but it's irrelevant for the advice I'm seeking. Our situation is such that we could go to Ireland for a few months. It really would not be that big a deal.

Yes I do meet all the requirements (including financial) for my husband to get a spouse visa.

I could be wrong but my understanding is deportation is different to removal/going voluntarily. If they issue a removal notice, can we just turn around and say ok he'll go, but we're going to Ireland together?

The way we see it is at the moment we're together. If he goes to India (and there are also reasons there why this would cause issues, but again irrelevant to my questions), we don't know how long the HO would take to process his application, could be a few weeks, could be months, and whether they'll even say yes when they do.

I appreciate people giving us what they feel is the best advice but we have considered our options and Ireland is something we are serious about pursuing.

If you meet the requirements for the visa, he will be approved if you apply for entry clearance from India. To me, it appears that you are trying to frustrate immigration rules... but that's just me!

You would not have to go with him if he were to apply appropriately from India. But you are right that with his complicated immigration history, it could take a few weeks or couple of months. If he has worked illegally, it could be even more complicated. However, moving to Ireland via Surinder Singh could take up to a year to sort out.

We are happy to go to Ireland and move their normally not an issue.

But my husband can not go back to India due to personal reason and neither can I unfortunately.

I do meet all the requirements financially and stuff... We are waiting of UKBA/UKVI to respond with an answer but we are just trying to prepare for worse can in case.

If I voluntarily leave UK after the response is it possible for me and my my husband to move to Ireland or does he has to go to no matter what?

Thank you

physicskate wrote:If you meet the requirements for the visa, he will be approved if you apply for entry clearance from India. To me, it appears that you are trying to frustrate immigration rules... but that's just me!

You would not have to go with him if he were to apply appropriately from India. But you are right that with his complicated immigration history, it could take a few weeks or couple of months. If he has worked illegally, it could be even more complicated. However, moving to Ireland via Surinder Singh could take up to a year to sort out.

My main question is, can UKBA enforce "where" my husband goes?

Yes, Immigration Enforcement can enforce your husband's removal but only to India (assuming that being his nationality). This will have been made clear on your removal notice.

Highly_Skilled wrote:

My main question is, can UKBA enforce "where" my husband goes?

Yes, Immigration Enforcement can enforce your husband's removal but only to India (assuming that being his nationality). This will have been made clear on your removal notice.

It has not been mentioned on the letter it said if I want to leave volantarily other they will have to issue an removal notice.

stormystar99 wrote:We're thinking of moving to Ireland for a few months for the Surinder Singh route, which appears to have worked, then not worked, but is now working again! (with all the changes in rules!) Is this the case? Can't we just go straight to Ireland? Surely they can only enforce him leaving the UK, isn't it up to him what he does from there? I don't know, hence my question.

We have the money to go to Ireland and stay for a while. There's work I can do. We researched it before and it seems feasible. Any advice would be welcome.

Can't just hop in and hop out and that's it. You have to 'shift your centre of life' which means cutting UK ties, lease, job etc, i.e. you have to 'exercise a treaty right' by working or studying basically.

Some say three months is enough but the UKVI are making this route more difficult so I'd budget 9-12 months.

Wanderer wrote: so I'd budget 9-12 months.

That's not really a issue and thank you for your reply as I said earlier if my husband leaves UK volantarily, can we move to IRELAND rather than him going to India?

As me and him will move to Ireland as soon as we get this response from UKVI... thank you.

stormystar99 wrote:

Wanderer wrote: so I'd budget 9-12 months.

That's not really a issue and thank you for your reply as I said earlier if my husband leaves UK volantarily, can we move to IRELAND rather than him going to India?

As me and him will move to Ireland as soon as we get this response from UKVI... thank you.

To be honest, I'm not sure, but I'm wondering how Irish immigration would react - to be honest I thing they'd bounce him and you don't want that on his record.

However, I know for a fact there are hardly any immigration checks on the Holyhead - Dublin ferry (I was checked once in a year of to-ing and fro-ing) and no border controls from NI so you could do it that way but for me personally that's one step too far on the illegal entry side.

The best way to do this is honestly and legally and I know it's a PITA but really the last thing you want is to have to explain all this at every visa/permit app because there's something not easily tickable by the UKVI...

Wanderer wrote:

stormystar99 wrote:

Wanderer wrote: so I'd budget 9-12 months.

That's not really a issue and thank you for your reply as I said earlier if my husband leaves UK volantarily, can we move to IRELAND rather than him going to India?

As me and him will move to Ireland as soon as we get this response from UKVI... thank you.

To be honest, I'm not sure, but I'm wondering how Irish immigration would react - to be honest I thing they'd bounce him and you don't want that on his record.

However, I know for a fact there are hardly any immigration checks on the Holyhead - Dublin ferry (I was checked once in a year of to-ing and fro-ing) and no border controls from NI so you could do it that way but for me personally that's one step too far on the illegal entry side.

The best way to do this is honestly and legally and I know it's a PITA but really the last thing you want is to have to explain all this at every visa/permit app because there's something not easily tickable by the UKVI...

Maybe I'm not getting something but how can Irish immigration bounce him if we're excercising our treaty rights? Surely thats something theyre bound by and have to accept? Surely thats the whole point?

Because he has no LTR?

Also no airline will take him since he has no legal LTR and they super-err on the side of caution since they are fined for landing people with no veracity.

Think about it. SS is not a universal panacea, there are still the basic movement tenets to adhere to.

Because he has no LTR?

Also no airline will take him since he has no legal LTR and they super-err on the side of caution since they are fined for landing people with no veracity.

Think about it. SS is not a universal panacea, there are still the basic movement tenets to adhere to.

If you exercise your treaty rights in Ireland, your non-EEA spouse can not be 'bounced' any where. You can catch the ferry or drive from Belfast to Dublin like thousands of people do everyday. Just because your husband is an over-stayer in the UK will not affect his registration in Ireland as you are exercising your treaty rights.
Once you are able to collect enough documentary evidence in Ireland to prove that your 'centre of life' is in Ireland, you can both move back to the UK. Your husband does not require a Family Permit as Ireland is a part of the common travel area.
So your husband applies for an EEA2 residence card once you both are in the UK.

is better to apply for eu treaty visa from uk which takes 4wks before he leaves for ireland. that will make it easy for him in ireland and also enhance his application in ireland. if he has the eu treaty visa to ireland both can even take a flight from heathrow or gatwick to dublin. with this visa uk immigration at the airport in case you encounter one shall be powerless. but if he doesn't have it and you meet ukba at the airport they will deport him straight to india