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Please advise about UK or Irish Spouse Visa

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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Declan
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Please advise about UK or Irish Spouse Visa

Post by Declan » Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:23 pm

I am hoping that I can get some advice as to how my Indian girlfriend, living in India, and I can get married and live in Ireland.

Myself:

- Irish Passport Holder living and working in Dublin since 1998, spent 3 years part time living in US, been home full time for the last 16 months.
- I was born in Northern Ireland. Although, I haven't lived in UK since 1998, I can still get UK passport, if it can helps immigration process.
- I have been on 3 trips to India, mainly business during which our relationship started developing.
- I own a house in Dublin and most of my financials are based in Ireland with some savings in the UK.

Girlfriend:

-Indian Passport holder living in India
-She has been to Ireland on a tourist visa with myself as sponsor.

Relationship:

-We work for the same global software development team for the same financial services company.
-We have worked together for the last 17 months (May 2006)
-We have been seeing each other for the last 9 months (Feb 2007)
-We have telephone records showing our telephone conversations
-We have records of our Google Chat.

Questions:

1. What are our best options? Meaning, do we go with Irish Spousal Visa or UK Spousal Visa, Which one will be easier, quickest and allow my spouse to work without restriction?

2. Do we have to produce any legal documents before immigration process starts? if so, what are those?

3. Does anybody know any solicitor that is based in Ireland or UK who can help us with this process?

Thanks

yankeegirl
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Post by yankeegirl » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:27 pm

Meaning, do we go with Irish Spousal Visa or UK Spousal Visa
I'm assuming that you are wanting to remain in Ireland? If so, the UK spousal visa is out; that is for if you wanted to reside in the UK.

Your best bet may be to apply on the Ireland board; you might have better luck.

Declan
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Post by Declan » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:41 pm

Thanks YankeeGirl,

I should have said Ireland or Northern Ireland we will go with the best option that is easiest, quickest and allows my girlfriend to work.

Thanks

yankeegirl
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Post by yankeegirl » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:14 pm

I'm not sure about the Republic of Ireland, but I live in Northern Ireland, so I can help with that bit. You have a couple of options for NI. It may vary a bit depending on if you want to marry in NI or abroad.

If you marry abroad, option one would be to apply for a UK spousal visa. You can do this with your Irish passport, no need to get a British one. It is valid for two years and the cost is £500. She will be able to work as soon as she enters the UK on this. She won't have any recourse to public funds during this two year period. Close to the end of the two year period she will have to take and pass the Life in the UK test and then she can apply for ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain). The cost for ILR is currently £750. As it seems you are also a British citizen, she would be able to apply for British citizenship a year after obttaining ILR.

Option two. After marrying, she can apply for an EEA family permit. This must be made based on your Irish nationality. The family permit is valid for six months. Once in the UK, she can apply for a residence card which is valid for 5 years, and permanent residence after that. 1 Year after obtaining permanent residence she would be eligible to apply for British citizenship. All EEA applications are free. Also worth mentioning; a spouse of an Irish citizen can apply for Irish citizenship after 3 years of marriage and residence on the island of Ireland, Northern Ireland included. As with the spousal visa, she is able to work as soon as she enters the UK.

Have a look at the link; it lists the pros and cons of each.
http://www.lawcentreni.org/EoR/immigrat ... ership.htm

Now, if you are looking to marry in Northern Ireland, you would first have to apply for a fiance visa. It's £500, valid for six months and she would not be able to work while on the fiance visa. You must get married in that six month period. After that, you can apply for a spousal visa (if applying from within the UK after marriage it's £395) or the EEA residence card.

I'm not sure about marrying in ROI as far as visas required, but I know just getting married is a lengthy process.
http://www.groireland.ie/getting_married.htm

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:21 pm

1. I'd suggest getting married in India as getting married in Ireland involves waiting for more than 3 months for the appointment. There is no fiancee visa for Ireland. She would have to come to Ireland on visit visa

2. Civil weddings in India are recognized by the Irish embassy in New Delhi. You can use the marriage certificate issued by the local government to apply for the Irish spouse visa.

3. Prepare a portfolio for proof of relationship to submit to the Irish embassy in N.Delhi

vinny
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Re: Please advise about UK or Irish Spouse Visa

Post by vinny » Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:24 pm

Declan wrote: - I was born in Northern Ireland. Although, I haven't lived in UK since 1998, I can still get UK passport, if it can helps immigration process.
When were you born and what were your parents' immigration status in the UK at the time?
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

archigabe
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Re: Please advise about UK or Irish Spouse Visa

Post by archigabe » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:38 am

vinny wrote:
Declan wrote: - I was born in Northern Ireland. Although, I haven't lived in UK since 1998, I can still get UK passport, if it can helps immigration process.
When were you born and what were your parents' immigration status in the UK at the time?
what does that have to do with anything?

vinny
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Re: Please advise about UK or Irish Spouse Visa

Post by vinny » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:00 am

archigabe wrote:
vinny wrote:
Declan wrote: - I was born in Northern Ireland. Although, I haven't lived in UK since 1998, I can still get UK passport, if it can helps immigration process.
When were you born and what were your parents' immigration status in the UK at the time?
what does that have to do with anything?
Just would like to confirm UK citizenship status.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

JAJ
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Re: Please advise about UK or Irish Spouse Visa

Post by JAJ » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:17 am

vinny wrote: Just would like to confirm UK citizenship status.
If he is an Irish citizen born in the U.K. then it's 99% certain he's also a British citizen, even if born in 1983 or later.

And he says "living and working" in Dublin since 1998 so most likely was born before 1983.

JAJ
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Post by JAJ » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:25 am

yankeegirl wrote: Option two. After marrying, she can apply for an EEA family permit. This must be made based on your Irish nationality. The family permit is valid for six months. Once in the UK, she can apply for a residence card which is valid for 5 years, and permanent residence after that. 1 Year after obtaining permanent residence she would be eligible to apply for British citizenship.
She would not have to wait the extra year after permanent residence, as the spouse of a British citizen, where she already had at least 3 years legal U.K. residence.

Another option would be to bypass the need to wait for permanent residence and apply for British citizenship using the ppron method after 3 years legal residence.

Also worth mentioning; a spouse of an Irish citizen can apply for Irish citizenship after 3 years of marriage and residence on the island of Ireland, Northern Ireland included.
Although the Irish are taking 2-3 years to process citizenship applications.

Declan
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Post by Declan » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:59 am

Hi Vinny,

My parents where born in Northern Ireland and I lived there for the first 18 years of my life, I did my third level studys in England and then worked in the England and Scotland for 4 years before moving to Ireland.

Thanks

Declan
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Post by Declan » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:03 am

Hi archigabe
archigabe wrote:=3. Prepare a portfolio for proof of relationship to submit to the Irish embassy in N.Delhi
What type of information should be included in the portfolio, is there any good references as to what should be included for proof of relationship?

Thanks

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:47 am

A word of caution. If your spouse arrives here on a visit visa and gets married in Ireland tries to apply for a change of status as spouse of Irish national, it could take upto 1 year for her to be able to work and for the paperwork to be approved.

Try to contact the poster of this thread...she is Irish and she applied successfully for a spouse visa for a husband who is an Indonesian national.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=7342

As far as 'proof of relationship' goes, obviously the marriage cert from Indian authorities would be the first step, include photos,boarding passes of trips,emails,chat transcripts,your rental agreement,finances...basically proof that you have physically been seeing each other for a while and not just met over the internet.

This poster has some suggestions for the UK spouse visa, try to use what you can from his suggestions.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=17725

I'm moving this to the Ireland section as well.

scrudu
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Post by scrudu » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:34 am

I too would recommend marrying in India. As other posters have said, there is a 3 month "Notice Period" that you must give a Registrar before marrying. This is a legal requirement to allow anyone to object to the marriage when the Bans are posted.

The other downside of marrying in Ireland, is that your fiancee would enter Ireland on a C-Tourist Visa (max validity 3 months, non extendable) as this would be the only visa type open to her. After your marriage she would then have to return to India and apply for a D-Spouse visa to return. You cannot change your visa type from within Ireland.

I won't comment on the UK options, only the Irish ones. If you marry in India, your wife can then apply for a D-Spouse Visa at the Irish Embassy there. I believe from Archigabes experience in Mumbai, the waiting times are relatively short (in comparison to other Embassies). Use the same application form as for the Tourist Visa, but mark it on top as a "D-Spouse Visa App.". There is no published list of "proof of relationship", so the onus is really on you to allay any concerns they may have. We submitted the following:
  • My Bank Statements (proof of support)
    My work contract (proof of support)
    My payslips (proof of support)
    Our rental Agreement (proof of living together)
    Marriage Cert
    Both Birth Certs (originals & certified translations)
    His passport (original)
    Wedding photos
    Personal Letter of Support/Recommendation from me
    Phone Records
    Skype call records
    Evidence of prior Visas to Ireland

There's lot of info on these topics on this site. Read earlier posts for more info:
Marrying in Ireland: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=9842
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=17157

Declan
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Post by Declan » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:13 pm

Thanks for the useful information. I will go thru it all over the weekend, but I have another question.

If we go for the D-Spouse Visa and its approved does the spouse get a Stamp 4 and if not what would need to happen next?

Thanks

scrudu
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Post by scrudu » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:20 am

If the application is accepted, your wife would get a D-Spouse visa, which is an entry permit to Ireland. It would be issued for a period of 1 or 3 mths. After entering Ireland, she must register with the GNIB. This is when she would get her Stamp 4 (usually a 5 year permit, depending on passport validity), and would get her GNIB card. She would then have to apply for her Re-Entry visa with INIS (same building in Burgh Quay).

If she is refused, she could appeal, providing more information, or by getting a solicitor involved. Usual reason (from posters on this board) for refusal, are failing to satisfy DoJ that the relationship is authentic. According to DoJ helplines, if your wife has visited you already in Ireland, or you her in India, then this is a plus to your app. I'd supply as much docu as possible to prove your relationship is legit. As the DoJ keep saying, their main worry is about "marriages of convenience", so basically try to prove them wrong.

Declan
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Post by Declan » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:04 am

My fiancée may be able to transfer to Ireland with the company we both work for.

1. If my fiancée comes to Ireland on a Work Permit / Green Card:

1.1. How long should we wait until we get married after her arrival in Ireland?
1.2. Can we get married before she moves to Ireland (possibly while the Green Card is being processed or should we wait until the Green Card is approved but just before she moves)?
1.3. If we get married before she moves and later we need to switch to a 'D' Spouse Visa would this cause any issues?
1.4. If we get legally married in Ireland what documentation does my fiancée need (e.g. No Objection Certificate)?

2. If my fiancée comes to Ireland on a 'D' Spouse Visa:

2.1. Would having a job offer from the company help the visa processing?
2.2. I may be taking a short term assignment to India which I hope helps with proving our relationship and we plan to marry during that assignment. Does my being out of the country affect the visa process and if so how long can I be out of the country before it does affect the visa processing?
2.3. How do I go about getting a No Objection Certificate for the purpose of a Civil Marriage in India?

Thanks

Declan

scrudu
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Post by scrudu » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:43 am

r/e Option 1
  • 1.1 I dont understand this question. You can get married whenever you wish. You will have to give 3 months notice to the Registrar, and wait for a free slot for the marriage, but other than that, it's up to you both!
    1.2 Again, I dont understand this question. You can marry whenever you wish! A green Card/Work Permit application is a different application than a D-Spouse visa. If she is granted a Work Permit/Green Card, it will be on the basis of her Job Offer, and not on her marriage to you.
    1.3 If she arrives into Ireland on a Work Permit/Green Card, she cannot simply change to a D-Spouse Visa. She will have to return to India to apply for a D-Spouse visa, and re-enter on this visa.
    1.4 Ireland does not require a letter of Freedom to marry. See marriage requirements on this site: http://www.gro.ie/getting_married.htm

r/e Option 2
  • 2.1 No, the Spousal application is on the basis of your marriage, not on the basis of her work. The only benefit it could bring is to show that she is self sufficient, but the main thing you are trying to prove in your application, is that you are a legitimate couple (i.e. not a marriage of convenience).
    2.2 No. You do not need to be in Ireland while your wife submits her Application. Typically a couple would be living together while the non-EU partner applies for a visa to come to Ireland.
    2.3 You need to apply to the Dept of Foreign Affairs for a "Certificats de Coutume". All details here http://foreignaffairs.gov.ie/home/index.aspx?id=274

Declan
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Post by Declan » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:57 pm

Hi,

It seems that my fiancee will now be able to get a transfer and come here with a Work Permit. We plan to get married in India before she moves to Ireland in a Cahtolic Church. After some time we had plan to get a Civil Marriage here and then apply for a Spouse 'D' Visa. We were wondering that since we had married before in India would this adversely effect the processing of the Spouse 'D' Visa?

Thanks

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:09 am

If she is here in Ireland already you don't need a spouse visa. Apply for the marriage certificate and go to the Garda immigration and ask for 'stamp4' on her passport based on marriage to Irish National.

Declan
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Post by Declan » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:07 am

Archigabe,
My fiancee is currently in India, not in Ireland. She will most probably get the work permit and we are getting married (in a catholic church) before she comes here (which will be on a work visa). We are not applying for a spouse visa before she comes here (to avoid the paperwork). What we plan to do is to go for a civil marriage maybe 6 mths after she comes here, and then change the work visa to spouse.

We are just wondering if this may create issues and if what we are planning to do is right.

archigabe
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Post by archigabe » Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:42 am

If you get married in a catholic church in India, the church should be able to apply for a Civil marriage certificate as well from the Indian Government on your behalf.

If you apply for a stamp4 on the basis of marriage in Ireland the process can drag on for a year atleast as in the case of some others who've written in here.
IF she applies for a spouse visa from India(which can take a couple of weeks) getting the stamp4 is a matter of a few hours at the garda immigration in Dublin.

Making plans on the basis of work permits can be extremely sketchy as we found out two years ago.

Declan
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Post by Declan » Fri May 02, 2008 7:09 am

Hi Folks,

Firstly, thanks to everyone for the invaluable information. We got married in India a month ago. We had some hassle getting the marriage registered because of lack of information but was sorted out quickly once we had the right information.

We applied for the Spouse Visa last Friday and got back the 'D' Visa in 3 days :D .

We will be returning to Ireland on the 15th May. Can you please let us know what documentation we require for the registration with GNIB?

Again, thanks for all your help!!!!

scrudu
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Post by scrudu » Fri May 02, 2008 7:35 am

Hi Declan,

Firstly congratulations on your marriage, and successfully getting your wife her visa to join you in Ireland.

From here on it's pretty straightforward. You both need to present yourselves to the GNIB with both passports and a copy of your marriage certificate. They will Stamp her passport with a "Stamp 4 Residence permit", valid for 5 years (or till expiry of passport if shorter). They will issue her with a GNIB card showing her visa status.

You can then switch queues to the INIS desks, and apply for a Re-entry visa. The form is on the DoJ website. This sticker will be affixed in her passport, and can be used to re-enter the country any time she exits.

After that, it's a 3 year wait to see if she wants to apply for citizenship here.

Best of luck

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