10 years route, A complex Case

Guys,my case brief:
28/11/2005- Entered in the UK as student
Student until 2012 and then 2years in PSW
11/09/2015 Applied for FLR(FP)..got refused on 11/12/2015 with appeal right.
05/08/2015 First Tier Tribunal Hearing
Based on the aboove scenario do you guys think that to ab eligible to apply for ILR would be easy enoyugh for me..and also
1.Can I apply 28days earlier as one of the Solic said this is only applied who has valid visa.
2. Can I count 56 days extra time toward my ILR (28Days over stay period+ 28days early application).
Plz someone adviseme.

Hi Guys,
I am bit freaked out. My first tier tribunal hearing (FLR/FP) is on 5th August 2005 and my full 10 years will be completed on 27th November 2015. I've been to many solicitors to ask the advise about how to cover the gape after the hearing heard. All of them said that I will have 14days in FTT to make an application for permission to go UTT and if rejected I will get another 14days from UTT to make an application for permission to go UTT . and they normally take time roughly around 3 to 4 weeks to give the decision.
So here is my calculation

5/8/15 = Appeal heard
19/8/15 = decision dismissal
30/8/15 = Application lodge to FTT seeking permission to go for UTT
NEED TO KNOW THE TIME FRAME OF THE DECISION?

Suppose
14/9/15 = Decision from FTT came negative
26/9/15 = Application made to UTT for the permission to go for UTT
NEED TO KNOW THE TIME FRAME OF THE DECISION?

So..now do you think that I will be okay to be eligible to apply for the ILR. I know that I'll have 28days discretion time too.

Please some expert shade some light on my post. thank you.

Hi guys,

My case (FLR/FP) is due to be heard on 05/08/2015. Would it be possible to change the Oral Hearing to Paper Based Hearing now and normally how long it takes to get the decision for paper based? My concern is to gain some extra time. Thank you.

Note that:

The prospects of a successful appeal increase where there is an oral hearing. It helps the tribunal to assess the evidence by hearing witnesses give evidence.

Hi experts,
Experts or experienced people's help needed please. My ftt hearing heard on 21st October 2015 and my exact ten years will be completed 27th November 2015. waiting for the decision now. i got few questioins

a) can i apply for ilr if i get the decision before 27th november ?
b) if decision comes negative before 27th november and i do seek for upper tribunal, can i vary my application once waiting for the upper tribunal seeking decision.
c) Can i go for premium service without passport as my passports are all with home office because of the previous application (FLR FP)?

what would be the best course for me now. I have a full time job. I don't want to lose my job hence planning for the premium service.

mate you are elihible for ilr 28 days before your exact 10 years of arrival in the uk , today is 3 rd nov. you are already eligible i think you should go yo premium service which you csn go without passport its fine but atleast have Life in thr uk and previous passports and degrees everything apart from thr passport , write a covering letter that ur passpprt is with home office and u are wishing to vary uour application and speak with that peraon and request a refund as well if u already are in a pending application which hasnt been decided.
some one from this board went to peo same day whilst his passport was with ukvi , he got ilr in 2 weeks of window and also money returned for previous flr,which was pending.

haris_zam wrote:mate you are elihible for ilr 28 days before your exact 10 years of arrival in the uk , today is 3 rd nov. you are already eligible i think you should go yo premium service which you csn go without passport its fine but atleast have Life in thr uk and previous passports and degrees everything apart from thr passport , write a covering letter that ur passpprt is with home office and u are wishing to vary uour application and speak with that peraon and request a refund as well if u already are in a pending application which hasnt been decided.
some one from this board went to peo same day whilst his passport was with ukvi , he got ilr in 2 weeks of window and also money returned for previous flr,which was pending.

Thank you for your reply. My FLR FP application's was refused by home office with right of appeal. Appeal was lodged on due time and hearing was heard already. now just to wait for the decision of the judge. Can I vary now? or I have to make a fresh application.
please read my 1st post again.

Hi Atikur,

To the best of my understanding, you would have to wait for the outcome of your First tier Tribunal (Ftt) decision. As soon as the outcome is transparent (which i believe would be - ve, and i also assume you would think of that in your favor), book a PEO in the earliest possible date at any center in the UK, even if that means that you get yourself booked in for the very next day from receiving the -ve decision from Ftt. I say earliest possible because you might start becoming an over stayer as soon as the -ve decision is made. But if you get a further appeal right say to file a further appeal to UT in 14 days, then you wont be able to make your SET (LR) application within those 14 days, i.e you will have to wait for those 14 days (or whatever period the Judge allows you to appeal with in) to pass.

Don't worry you will be covered under 3C for continuity of your leave and would not affect your 10 year duration. However, as soon as a decision is made with no further right of appeal, you might become an over stayer straight away. That's why I recommend you booking yourself in for PEO as soon as you receive your decision by Ftt. Get yourself booked in for the very next available date at any PEO around the country. The sooner you do the better as you will have overstayed lesser by the time you attend a PEO.

On the other hand if you get a further appeal right lets say to appeal within 14 days, pass the 14 days (as you cant make a fresh application with in appeal period) and go for PEO the 15th day. You will have become an overstayer the 15th day by one day when you attend the PEO, but this will be disregarded as the HO allows for single periods of overstaying for 28 days or less.

The above will only work if you had never overstayed beyond 28 days in the past 10 years, had passed your LIUK test, got your degrees and transcripts, was not involved in deception (TOEIC etc) and have all other passports to hand in. You are currently in the 28 day early zone, which is in your favour to apply as soon as you get a decesion (hopefully -ve) from Ftt. You dont have to wait to get to exact 10 years. Save your time and apply early after getting your decision from Ftt. But of course of you get a decision from Ftt after 27 Nov 2015, then you will already have crossed your 10 years anyway.

I do not take responsibility to follow the above guidelines. Please do get in touch with a solicitor for legal advice too. Its worth your time (10 years you spent in UK) and money (you will earn in future). Atikur, you are just around the corner to get your ILR. Don't worry you will be fine. Just play safe. Do let us know of the progress in your case from time to time. Any questions, feel free to ask. All the best.

Thank you JaguarXF.

I have my life in the uk completed and sent it to home office when i applied for FLRFP. I have also had my mba degree completed here in the UK and never been over stayer and no criminal record. My total absences were 2times. 1st time 172days in a row and 2nd time 60days in a row. Refused visa once against flr(o) back in 2012 but varied the application becore refusal and subsequently received my PSW. This is the brief of my immigration history

Now, what is ve and PEO? Sorry for me to be ignorant.. Everyday is school day and i am learning as i go along.
My plan is to consult a good solicitor once i receive the verdict from the tribunal. I have consulted one already and he advised me to apply by post. But my point is if i apply by post, decision will come roughly 2months latter..and technically i would have no work right on that time which will cause me resign from my full time job. am i right? Hence i want to go for one day premium service and. Continue my work.
I have my wife applying with me, but not the baby. Since she born in 2014 she didnt go outside of the UK. so what catagory shall i apply for my wife for? Neither she has life in the uk nor she has b1 or a1 completed. My income is well enough to sponsor her for my. dependent.

Advice needed guys plz.

Hi Atikur,

Your title, "Can I vary my application...Emergency help needed". May I please highlight here that it was an error on your part to start off a thread with "Can I vary my application...". You are not varying your application but trying to secure an ILR on the basis of your decision for FLR (FP) already been made as - ve (negative, meaning refusal). How can you vary an application when a decision had already been made to refuse your FLR (FP), further more ending up in court with appeal date been heard. Your title "Can I vary my application...."would attract people who are trying to vary and hence you wouldn't be able to get the desired opinion from the crowd.

Secondly, may I ask please who on earth suggested you to submit your original LIUK pass test certificate with your FLR(FP) application. You should had only submitted your, current original valid passport, copies of degree, FLR(FP) form, and a reference letter from a UK citizen. I applied for my FLR (FP) with FLR(FP) form, copies of my degree, latest passport only (with copies of each and every page of the current passport kept with me before sending out the FLR(FP) and a reference letter from UK citizen.

One of your absence was 172 days. Are you sure its 172 consecutive days and not 180 days (6 months). I suggest you look into this absence carefully and calculate again using http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html, cause if its more than 180 consecutive days then you may fall for refusal.

You did not mention earlier that you have dependents in UK. This makes it bit difficult for myself to form an opinion for yourself, as I am single in the UK with no dependents. hence any solid opinion I can form would be for somebody who dosen't has dependents. But as a general rule of thumb, I can just guess that your wife dosen't needs to do LIUK or B1 etc at the moment as she will continue to be your dependent where you apply for SET(LR). You would however need to include her in your SET(LR) application stating her and your baby as your dependent. Does your wife needs to apply separately on any other form like SET(M) etc is something which is beyond my knowledge for UKBA rules, something which a competent solicitor can advise you.

You stated that your income is well enough to sponsor her. In that case may I strongly recommend that you seek urgent legal advice and by legal advice I mean get a good competent solicitor and stick to their valuable advice. I can see why the solicitor whom you approached recently, recommended you to send in your application by post instead of going for PEO( same day premium service). He must have recommended PEO cause one, you have dependents, secondly your current valid passport and LIUK test certificate is with the UKBA.

You need to ask your solicitor if applying by post for SET(LR) would cover you for 3C leave especially where you have received a refusal for FLR(FP) from HO. My guess is you might not be able to continue with work until a decision from HO is received for your SET(LR) to gain ILR. This could potentially mean couple of months (4 to 6 ) before you get back to work. I can see that you will get your ILR, but how long will it take to decide you application depends on the complexities in your case, like previous refusals, court hearings already taken place and the decesions the court made, number of dependants etc.

One thing is again very confusing, you stated,

Refused visa once against flr(o) back in 2012 but varied the application becore refusal and subsequently received my PSW.

You say that you had refusal against FLR(O), meaning you got a refusal decision for FLR(O) and then you also say that you varied your FLR(O) before refusal. How is that possible. That again is very confusing.

Varying an application means that you sent in an application to HO. The HO was working on it and BEFORE they could reach a decision, you put in another application to vary the first application.

thanks again JaguarXF.

* The reason of headline Can i vary my application....: one of the solicitors was telling me that if i go to upper tribunal based on the dismissal of first tier tribunal my application can be varied. he found it somewhere in the immigration law and he is due to confirm me within few days. but my understanding was once decision is made by the home office, that's the end of the story.

* my first solicitor included the LIUK certificate with flr fp application. i realised later that it was a stupid idea..but anyway, i got a scanned copy and home office should have the record of it

* in 2012 when my tier 4 visa was expiring I applied for FLR (O) even knowing that it will come negative. but i just wanted to buy some times to get my MBA result so that I can apply for PSW. I made PSW application on 3rd of December 2012 and my FLR (O) decision came negative on 17th December. As i applied before the decision made, i received my 2 years PSW visa...thats why i said that i was technically refused once.
* I know it already that once i will apply for ILR, my 3c leave will stop right there. that means i will have no right to work.. thats why I am preferring to go to premium service. thats the way i can avail quick visa and can save my job. but if i send it by post i shouldn't take a risk of continuing my job as it will be illegal.

* My wife needs to apply for FLR (M), but for that she needs to have her Secure English Language Test certificate. Problem is she cant take the test without passport which is with home office now. Don't know what to do.

* forgot to add this, my 1st absence was even less than 162days not 172 days.. i have checked my scanned copy of passport where entry clearance seal on the visa is dated on 28th November 2005 and after 3days i left the country (as far as i can recall, but couldn't find any seal from any other country to prove when i left) and re-entry seal on the visa is dated on 9th may 2006.

Hi Aikur,

Your solicitor is right. What you can do is that you can include your change of circumstances during appeal. This will be copied over to the HO. You cannot put in a new application to HO unless you withdraw your appeal. It all depends on what and when your current Ftt decision kicks in. Let me know when that happens and we can take it from there.

Beware of SELTS. The HO states at https://www.gov.uk/english-language/app ... ifications "From November 2015, you won’t be able to use ESOL qualifications as proof for settlement and citizenship applications."

Ask the approved HO English test center near you if they can accept a copy of your wife's passport with a current valid UK driving license (Provisional or Full with counterpart if it came with a counterpart, although she may not need to take the counterpart with her as DVLA stopped issuing counterparts earlier this year in 2015)

You have to wait for the decision from Ftt to kick in. How long did the judge say it would take to send in a decision???? My guess is it might take 4 weeks from hearing. So you are looking for a wait of until 20th of November 2015.

In the mean time get in touch with the approved HO English test center near you to find out if they can accept copies of your wife's passport with Driving license and copies of acknowledgement from HO confirming that the HO has your wife's passport.

Let me know of the decision from Ftt which I believe should be at your solicitors doorsteps by Friday the 27th of November 2015.

All the best.

Atikur,

Why is your solicitor pushing you to go to UT after a negative response from Ftt will be received. My understanding is that after you get a refusal decision from Ftt in near future, you can under your current circumstances apply for SET(LR) straight away by post or at a PEO as you qualify under the 28 day early period from 10 years rule.

Is he/she trying to make more money by dragging you into UT ????? The problem here is that your hearing took place before you came under the 28 day early from 10 year rule, so I can understand why change of circumstances were not included during the Ftt hearing. But to say that go for a UT and vary the file is something which will eat up your time and money given to solicitors. After your Ftt decision if you apply for UT that will take up months of your time. During your UT appeal you cannot put in a new file for SET (LR) because you are under UT appeal. If your solicitor then goes on to say at the UT hearing to vary the file, it will not be varied but copied over to the HO. Your UT hearing will be based on your FLR(FP) case,cause that's potentially what you have been chasing for at the Ftt hearing and then will be chasing for at the UT hearing. Even if the judge at UT says to HO after refusing your FLR (FP) to consider you under 10 year rule, then that would be something like having done by post. Cause after your UT hearing you will need to send in your SET(LR) file by post.

Going for UT means your are looking forward to waste another 6 to 8 months in the UT process, and all for just to send in your SET(LR) file by post after UT hearing. Going for UT means, at least 6 months in the UT process and later sending SET(LR) by post, at least another 6 months, that's a 1 year waste of time for nothing. Oh yeah, your solicitors would however financially benefit a lot from you making you go for UT. I hope you did not mention him that you are well off to support your dependents as you did on this thread. Cause if you did, then my friend you just raised your solicitors expectations to suck out more blood from your system without making you feel bad.

Atikur,

Since you have a family in the UK, there is a possibility of yourself getting visa for FLR (FP) in your favor from Ftt, if you get a refusal from Ftt and would still like to move on with UT, you might get a positive response from UT.

You and your family would then have a three year visa followed by another three years. In short you would need to complete 6 years more on FLR(FP) before you become eligible for SET (LR). To the best of my understanding your 10 year clock will stop the moment you get a positive response from Ftt for FLR (FP)

The above is just an opinion, please seek legal advice from your solicitors.

Thanks.

To update you guys,

I have received the court decision today which is NEGATIVE. On the right hand side of the first page written
Decision & Reasons Promulgated 4 NOV 2005 and at the last page Signed Judge of the First-tier Tribunal 23rd October 2015.

I am now thinking what would be the best action for me..One of the known solicitors said to apply for ILR (after 14days period for upper tribunal permission) and the other one said to apply for upper tribunal now and lawfully continues 10years. once 10 years completed withdraw the case and apply for upper tribunal...

anyone experienced same situation please advise me. thank you.

Hi Atikur,


"and the other one said to apply for upper tribunal now and lawfully continues 10years. once 10 years completed withdraw the case and apply for upper tribunal..."

So the other solicitor said,

1) Apply for UT now
2) Lawfully continue 10 years
3) Once 10 years completed, withdraw the case
4) Apply for UT

So he asked you to apply for UT, lawfully continue 10 years, Once 10 years completed, withdraw the case and apply for UT again!

As far as I can understand from what you state is that apply for UT, withdraw and then apply for UT again. Read your statement again, its confusing. Nobody can form an opinion on such confusing statements.

I have already replied from the mobile but it seems the post didn't go through

anyway, sorry, it was my silly mistake. it should be to apply for ILR. solicitor's point is to continue 10 years lawfully so that home office gets no opportunity of thinking that i spent less than 10 years lawfully. I and everyone knows that i can apply 28days earlier, but it could be applicable for those who has visa. anyway, i don't want to argue about that. better to spend £300 extra to be in safe side.

So now...If we make an application to ftt for the permission to go ut can it be withdrawn before the decision ? that's what i need to be cleared.

Please contact your solicitor.

Does anyone know if i can apply for ILR within this 14days extended leave by 3c? someone said its better to apply within this 14days as application will be a valid application and someone else said any application made within this time will be invalid.

My Situation is little complicated and need real expert opinion please. My ftt hearing got dismissed on 4th November and got 14days time to make an application to First -Tier Tribunal for Permission to Appeal to upper tribunal. my exact 10 years will be completed on 28th November 2015. I am going to post my application to Ftt for seeking permission to go to ut tomorrow by next day guaranteed delivery just to continue my 3C leave until 28th November 2015. once i am in 28th November I'll withdraw this application. here I need expert opinion if it is possible to withdraw just the application or I have to wait until the outcome of the application. how long does it take to withdraw the application?
2nd step to get PEO appointment. do I have to get same day as application or appeal withdrawn for PEO appointment or it doesn't matter as long as I am within 28days period. after reading the 3C and 3D leave its very clear to me that once appeal is withdrawn any application made after that even same day will be considered as invalid application. So does it mean that my ILR application will be counted as invalid? I am very scared now. any help will really be appreciated.

Withdraw your appeal, wait for the confirmation letter. you can apply within 28 days.

Zaidii wrote:Withdraw your appeal, wait for the confirmation letter. you can apply within 28 days.

Thanks for the replay Zaidii,
As i mentioned its not appeal now.,its just the application to ftt for the permission of ut appeal.

Guys, I beg you please experienced or expert anyone help me. Tomorrow my Exact ten years will be completed.

a) can I withdraw my APPLICATION for seeking permission to go to Upper Tribunal from First Tier Tribunal or I have to wait for the decision before withdrawing

b) Can i go for Premium Service visa application without passport in my hand?