Second marriage before receiving decree nisi / absolute

Hi

My first post and really would like some help or clarification.

I am 40 years old and hold UK passport.

0. I got married on 26th Oct 1990 in London
1. I moved to Kuwait to work for in 2008.
2. My UK passport holding wife and I started divorce proceedings during 2014.
3. I recieved an Talak (islamic divorce from the London Fatwa Council) during mid-June 2014.
4. On Feb 2015 I re-married in Pakistan, using the above Talak.
5. I recieved my decree Nisi on March 2015.
6. I recieved my decree absolute on June 2015
7. My wife from Pakistan joined me in Kuwait in Dec 2015.
8. I would like to move back to UK in April 2016 with my wife.

I have a property in the UK and savings over the GBP62,500.

I assume that the UK does not recognise our marriage in Feb 2015 as the final decree absolute came in June 2015. Would I need to get a civil marriage ?

I belive that this thread maybe in the 'Immigration for Family Members' - Could a moderator move it please ?

Wow 209 visists but no help ?

Could someone please help me to clarify if UK immigration does not recognise our marriage in Feb 2015 as the final decree absolute came in June 2015 - and so we would need to get a civil marriage first ?

Thanks

Pervaz wrote:Hi

My first post and really would like some help or clarification.

I am 40 years old and hold UK passport.

0. I got married on 26th Oct 1990 in London

You were originally married when you were 15???!

You will run into problems with the second marriage being recognised as you were not 'free to marry' under UK law. Look into applying for a fiance visa and then getting married in the UK...

Your second marriage will not be recognised under British law and would be considered as 'bigamous'. British law considers you to be still married to your first wife until the divorce absolute had been issued. This means that you are unable to apply for a spouse visa for your current wife. Your only realistic option would be to apply for a fiance visa and marry under British legislation in the UK. That of course is assuming that you meet the strict financial conditions that are now in place for settlement visas. Have you held the savings for at least 6 months in an accessible account?


Edite: Pipped to the post by physicskate.

My understanding is, if a polygamous marriage was contracted in a country where such marriages are recognised, and OP was habitually resident in that country, and OP is able to demonstrate that his previous marriage has now been terminated, due to divorce or death of his previous spouse. Then the marriage contracted before the decree absolute in the previous marriage, will be recognised for immigration purposes.

We differ on this Obie.

I see CASA ..

I was just going through their guidance is section 8.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ages-set14

It appears to support my views.

Clearly if the marriage was contracted outside the jurisdiction , it cannot be said to be bigamous in nature.

Obie wrote:I see CASA ..

I was just going through their guidance is section 8.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ages-set14

It appears to support my views.

Clearly if the marriage was contracted outside the jurisdiction , it cannot be said to be bigamous in nature.

Obie, doesn't this rely on where both parties are domicile? How would the ECO view the application if the 'husband' holds British nationality, is not domicile in the country where the marriage took place (Pakistan - the OP says he was resident in Kuwait) and owns property in the UK?

It may well be, and I dont know, that OP may well have been domiciled in Pakistan. May have a property there , business there, family ties there . We just don't know.

But it is clear that unlike Indian citizenship, he did not lose his Pakistani nationality on becoming British .

To the OP,

Some of the information in the threads below may be useful to you.

EC for wife (second marriage before the first was annulled)

Validity of divorce and 2nd marriage

Hi

Happy New Year to everyone and many thanks for the advice.

It seems to be a minefield if you remarry in a country where you can legally marry (i.e. in Pakistan) but the formalities havent been finalised in UK.

I think the possible safest option is to be clear about the situation with the case officer and show the complete trail of my divorce, my ability to marry in Pakistan, and finally a civil marriage in Kuwait.

Thanks

I wouldn't risk the endless expense, delay and potential arguments about it. Your civil marriage plan sounds safer.

avjones wrote:I wouldn't risk the endless expense, delay and potential arguments about it. Your civil marriage plan sounds safer.

+1 IMHO good advice.

Hi casa, amanda

Thank you for your responses and time.

I will wait for my wives visa here to be processed and then try to get a civil marriage in Kuwait and then start to look at the application process

Pervaz wrote:Hi casa, amanda

Thank you for your responses and time.

I will wait for my wives visa here to be processed and then try to get a civil marriage in Kuwait and then start to look at the application process

I'm assuming you're referring to a visa for Kuwait before the civil marriage there.

Hi Casa

Yes - Kuwait immigration accepted our Pakistani marriage as legal (and i showed them the decree absolute) but there were no issues.

So we are currently applying for her residency in Kuwait. Then using that residenecy to apply for a civil marriage. Then finally applying for UK visa.

Although that sounds boring to do, I think it's much safer for you both in terms of applying for the UK spouse visa

Hi Amanda

Thanks for that - boring is good sometimes - cant be living the dream (in colour) all the time

Another question:

Since i am an expat would i have leave my job in Kuwait and return to the UK permanently ?

Or can we apply for her residency to the UK and return back to Kuwait to carry on working ?

Thanks

You don't have to return to the UK, no. But a spouse visa is issued to someone who intends to live with the British spouse who is present and settled in the UK. So unless you are returning to the UK permanently yourself at the same time, the application will be refused.

To qualify, the relevant spouse (i.e. you) has to be "settled" in the UK or returning to settle in the UK at the same time as the wife.

Hi Amanda

Thanks for that reply - hopefully i'll update the board as soon as we have residency in Kuwait sorted out in order to get civil marriage !

Thanks

Hi all

Update:

1. Wife recieved her full residency in Kuwait
2. I emailed the General Register in the UK about a civil wedding and this is the response from them :



I refer to the documents and statements supplied regarding the validity of your marriage to {wife} on 15/02/2015, whilst still party to a subsisting marriage to {me}.



I must firstly advise that only a civil court with jurisdiction can rule on the validity of any marriage or divorce. However, at the General Register Office we can provide a view based upon your statement and our reading of the relevant legislation.



Section 11 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973 sets out the grounds on which a marriage is void, with Section 11(d) stating as follows:

“A marriage celebrated after 31st July 1971 shall be void on the following grounds only, that is to say…..(d) in the case of a polygamous marriage entered into outside England and Wales, that either party was at the time of the marriage domiciled in England and Wales.”



In your statement you have confirmed your country of domicile as Kuwait, and {wife}’s country of domicile as Pakistan. As neither are the UK, your marriage to {wife} would appear to be not considered void under Section 11(d).



Further, generally speaking, a marriage will be recognised as valid in this country provided that it complied with the law of the country where it took place and the couple had the legal capacity to marry under their law(s) of domicile. As both Kuwait and Pakistan appear to recognise polygamous marriage then your marriage may be capable of recognition under UK law.



As such, we are not in a position to allow you to give notice of your intention to marry {wife} as you may be party to a subsisting marriage to her.



However, this is merely our view and I can only suggest that you seek further detailed legal advice on this matter.



Regards,


3) They did suggest to get a declaration of recognising a marriage - however i would need to be a resident in the UK (which i havent been!)

4) Kuwait cannot issue with a civil wedding ceremony as they do not recognise civil weddings !

Any help please ?

Well this was the views I expressed in my post of the 29-12-2015.

You told them you were domiciled in Kuwait?

I doubt that, but I'm not an expert on domicile.

Hi

i told them that i was domiciled in Kuwait at the time of the marriage in Feb 15 i.e. I have been living here for the past 8 years. I have a valid residency permit renewed every 2 years. I do have a residence in the UK but i rarely visit the UK (i.e. less than 40 days per tax year).

Kuwait law does allow polygamous marriage as does Pakistan.

Is my understanding correct between residency vs domicile ?

Thanks