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Tier 1 extension questions

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system. This route is now closed to new applicants.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

fatguyslim
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Tier 1 extension questions

Post by fatguyslim » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:21 pm

Hey everyone, in june I will be applying for my Tier 1 extension for 200k investment. Would like to know if there is anyone here who has had a successful outcome for this case? I have all the documents I think they require but I need to be certain if I am not missing anything. Please reply back as I could do with some help. Thanks

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zimba
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by zimba » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:14 pm

There is already a thread on the same topic. I shared my application details over there: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... l#p1325772
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

fatguyslim
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by fatguyslim » Tue Apr 12, 2016 3:39 pm

Thanks Zimba and congrats for your successful outcome will come back with some questions later

fatguyslim
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by fatguyslim » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:02 am

As promised I am now going to ask some questions zimba. Sorry about yesterday I understand why you got upset fairly quickly when I kept asking the same thing. Right so here are some questions

1. I got my visa in June 2013 and was self-employed and registered for self-assessment prior to my initial application. For my initial application I only had to show my bank statement with 200k in my name, maintenance funds and my Uni degree. I got the visa without providing any other documents along with my application.

Soon after I got my visa I deposited the 200k in 3 different savings accounts waiting for the right opportunity to invest in my business. In Oct/Nov all the money from my saving accounts was transferred back into my personal account. Back then I was using my personal account for my business too so technically the money was invested into my business.

In Feb 2015, I changed my business status from Sole trader to limited company as my turnover was too high and I needed to fit into a better tax bracket. In my transition period I was partly accepting money in my limited accounts and partly in my sole trader business accounts due to a large client base. The complete transition occurred around July 2016. During this time the working capital used was £75k while the remaining 125k remained in various other investments.

The remaining 125k was then invested in Feb 2016, and since then the working capital has been shown to be 200k in total. So that out of the way I want to add that I can show £125k coming through to my limited business directly from my account but the working capital of £75k I cant show it coming from my personal account. So the 75k was used to purchase the stock say from my sole trader accounts and the payments coming from the clients were going to my limited business account.

I just want to know what documents will I have to show that all the money in my limited accounts belong to me?
Documents I currently have are
Director's loan document
Unaudited accounts
Bank statements showing 125k transfer to my limited accounts
Proof of 200k going from my savings accounts to my personal accounts in Oct/Nov 2013

2. One of the employees of the business was also a Director of the company for 10 months, he has been receiving a wage of a full time settled worker. He is now just an employee but is still a 50% share holder of the company. Does this affect the outcome of the visa in anyway? I have spoken to Home Office about this and they said it should be fine but just wanted to get your views on this?

3. Lastly say if I get my extension and then for my ILR I employ 2 more settled workers and pay full time wage to all 4 settled workers for 6 months, will I qualify for ILR then?

I really appreciate your help with this buddy and look forward to your reply. Thanks

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zimba
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by zimba » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:10 am

1. Immigration Rules demand that you show min £200K transferred from your personal account to your business account if you invested this money as a Director's loan. This is because you can claim anything in an unaudited accounts. They need to see he money transaction(s) to your business bank accounts to ensure you invested and you are not just claiming it. If the evidence does not match with the transactions, it is certain to say that you will be refused extension.

2. There are no rules preventing you from claiming points for an employee who is also a shareholder.

3. Given that transitional arrangements apply to you, you can hire 4 people for 6 months during your extension period and qualify for ILR.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by nadeem75 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:17 am

zimba88 wrote:There is already a thread on the same topic. I shared my application details over there: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... l#p1325772
Hi Zimba88,
congratulation for your successful extension. it is really a great achievement.
my questions for you and other senior members is:
my 2 years accounts file by Accountant and i have sign on balance sheet, however when i go to company house website on beta to check and it shows only 3 pages and notes pages is not there where mention my name for director loan, will this effect to proof actual accounts which is i sign and accountant stamp.
and Home Office will check company house printout or actual report which signed by me and accountant.

regards
nadeem

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zimba
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by zimba » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:31 am

nadeem75 wrote: congratulation for your successful extension. it is really a great achievement.
my questions for you and other senior members is:
my 2 years accounts file by Accountant and i have sign on balance sheet, however when i go to company house website on beta to check and it shows only 3 pages and notes pages is not there where mention my name for director loan, will this effect to proof actual accounts which is i sign and accountant stamp.
and Home Office will check company house printout or actual report which signed by me and accountant.

regards
nadeem
Many thanks.
You need to submit full accounts to HO given to you by your accountant and signed by you. They will rely on your full accounts, not what is publicly available online.

Little more info
Before 1 Jan 2016 for small businesses, your accountant mostly prepared full accounts for the directors and shareholders but usually reported only a limited snapshot of that to Companies House (known as abbreviated accounts) This is what you see on the Beta service which is public information.
This has changed from 1 Jan 2016. More info: https://blog.mercia-group.co.uk/2015/04 ... d-accounts
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by thutmose » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:33 am

1. Immigration Rules demand that you show min £200K transferred from your personal account to your business account if you invested this money as a Director's loan. This is because you can claim anything in an unaudited accounts. They need to see he money transaction(s) to your business bank accounts to ensure you invested and you are not just claiming it
For share capital investment they don't want to see bank statement. Someone can just open a company with 50k/200k share capital. Then never transfer the money or may be transfer the money over the three years in small installment like loan investment. Say for example 50k issued share capital, applicant transferred 20k in his first year and showing remaining 30k as other debtors on the balance sheet.
Unless home office uses an accountant for these applications, a normal case worker may not understand a detailed balance sheet.

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zimba
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by zimba » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:43 am

For share capital investment they don't want to see bank statement. Someone can just open a company with 50k/200k share capital. Then never transfer the money or may be transfer the money over the three years in small installment like loan investment. Say for example 50k issued share capital, applicant transferred 20k in his first year and showing remaining 30k as other debtors on the balance sheet.
Unless home office uses an accountant for these applications, a normal case worker may not understand a detailed balance sheet.
If you read things like the MAC report, you realise that HO has several units with experts in the field that can verify and understand your business documents very well. The assumption that a case worker relies merely on her/his assessment of a Tier 1E migrant is a bit simplistic. Surely you must ask why you cannot apply in person for Tier 1E visa or extensions. They are not stupid :roll:
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fatguyslim
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by fatguyslim » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:43 pm

1. Immigration Rules demand that you show min £200K transferred from your personal account to your business account if you invested this money as a Director's loan. This is because you can claim anything in an unaudited accounts. They need to see he money transaction(s) to your business bank accounts to ensure you invested and you are not just claiming it. If the evidence does not match with the transactions, it is certain to say that you will be refused extension.
There are 2 instances where I am getting an issue.

1.First is where I show that the money comes from my savings account going to my personal account that was used for sole trading business. I have the bank statements but no unaudited accounts for that period.

2. I can show £125k going directly from my account to my limited bank account directly from my personal account. The remaining 75k I can't show coming from my personal account as that was used as the working capital for my business.So to give a simpler image the money used in my sole trader account (under my name) sent money out of the account to buy stock and then received the payments into my limited account. I mean all business go through transitional period so not sure how this can be an issue.

Any advice which evidence should I show and what can I do to make my case stronger?

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zimba
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by zimba » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:44 pm

1.First is where I show that the money comes from my savings account going to my personal account that was used for sole trading business. I have the bank statements but no unaudited accounts for that period.
Money transfer between your personal accounts is irrelevant to HO. They rules explicitly want business bank account statements showing investment transaction(s) under your name. This also must be reflected in your accounts
2. I can show £125k going directly from my account to my limited bank account directly from my personal account. The remaining 75k I can't show coming from my personal account as that was used as the working capital for my business.So to give a simpler image the money used in my sole trader account (under my name) sent money out of the account to buy stock and then received the payments into my limited account. I mean all business go through transitional period so not sure how this can be an issue.
You can invest in different ways but HO does not accept any without providing the required documents.
You want to claim that you have given your company 200K loan but the evidence they are looking for exists only for 125K based on your bank account transactions. Sole traders do not need a business bank account but the immigration rules require you to have one. I suggest to find a way to invest the 75K in to the business.
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fatguyslim
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by fatguyslim » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:59 pm

Money transfer between your personal accounts is irrelevant to HO. They rules explicitly want business bank account statements showing investment transaction(s) under your name. This also must be reflected in your accounts
Not strictly true, please go to Page 46 of the guidance notes and check middle column on the second row. They say they accept personal bank statements when trading is also happening on that account.
You can invest in different ways but HO does not accept any without providing the required documents.
You want to claim that you have given your company 200K loan but the evidence they are looking for exists only for 125K based on your bank account transactions. Sole traders do not need a business bank account but the immigration rules require you to have one. I suggest to find a way to invest the 75K in to the business.
My unaudited accounts at the end of May will show slightly over 200k in total which is all my money, should that not serve as a proof? Around the time of transition I was using Business bank accounts for my sole trader. It is a simple case of a company named x changing to x ltd and the clients sending payments to x ltd now instead of x. What I dont know is what I can show to the home office as an evidence of this? I guess I can show them the bank statements etc

fatguyslim
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by fatguyslim » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:01 pm

Not strictly true, please go to Page 46 of the guidance notes and check middle column on the second row. They say they accept personal bank statements when trading is also happening on that account.
sorry page 47 of the new guidance

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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by zimba » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:26 pm

Not strictly true, please go to Page 46 of the guidance notes and check middle column on the second row. They say they accept personal bank statements when trading is also happening on that account.
I was talking in the context of Director's loan. In this case you must show you were registered as a self employed and used 75K as a sole trader and then 125K as director's of a company. I know from accounting point of view it becomes 200K director's loan when you change from sole trader to Ltd but proving that to HO is the problem.
My unaudited accounts at the end of May will show slightly over 200k in total which is all my money, should that not serve as a proof? Around the time of transition I was using Business bank accounts for my sole trader. It is a simple case of a company named x changing to x ltd and the clients sending payments to x ltd now instead of x. What I dont know is what I can show to the home office as an evidence of this? I guess I can show them the bank statements etc
I suggest you write a very good covering letter explaining this. Your director's loan agreement must also mention that 75K of the loan is simply investment in previous sole trading activity. You also need to send personal as well as business accounts, showing the 200K transactions.
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by lavildhillon » Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:16 pm

Hi Zimba,

Is it possible shareholder can sell his all shares in third year before extension and invest money by DL ?

Thanks

fatguyslim
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by fatguyslim » Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:01 pm

I was talking in the context of Director's loan. In this case you must show you were registered as a self employed and used 75K as a sole trader and then 125K as director's of a company. I know from accounting point of view it becomes 200K director's loan when you change from sole trader to Ltd but proving that to HO is the problem.
When I got 200k transferred from my easy access savings to my personal account in 2013, I was registered as self employed of which I will provide evidence to the HO too. I can also show the home office that I was using that money to do trading. But I do not have unaudited financial accounts for that year. Will HO be fine with the bank statements alone in this case and accept this as the investment of 200k into my business?
I suggest you write a very good covering letter explaining this. Your director's loan agreement must also mention that 75K of the loan is simply investment in previous sole trading activity. You also need to send personal as well as business accounts, showing the 200K transactions.
If the above case doesnt work then I might have to write a long covering letter explaining everything to the home office and will provide evidence where required. All of this is such a pain in the backside lol

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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by AROOJ321 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:05 am

zimba88 wrote:There is already a thread on the same topic. I shared my application details over there: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... l#p1325772
Hi Zimba
Can you please advise , what are the requirements of company has 2 directors and the second directors has resigned 5 months before making extension application .
Do we need to send any document for that second director?

fatguyslim
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by fatguyslim » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:11 am

Hi Zimba
Can you please advise , what are the requirements of company has 2 directors and the second directors has resigned 5 months before making extension application .
Do we need to send any document for that second director?
I have the same situation and by the looks of it the outcome will not be affected if you didn't provide anything to the home office regarding your second Director unless he was one of the employee you might be claiming points for

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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by zimba » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:25 am

AROOJ321 wrote:Can you please advise , what are the requirements of company has 2 directors and the second directors has resigned 5 months before making extension application .
Do we need to send any document for that second director?
Other business directors are not relevant to your application, however you should give their names and details on the application form. See Tier 1E form table 3b2b
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fatguyslim
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by fatguyslim » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:05 pm

I suggest you write a very good covering letter explaining this. Your director's loan agreement must also mention that 75K of the loan is simply investment in previous sole trading activity. You also need to send personal as well as business accounts, showing the 200K transactions.
Hey Zimba, IF I invested 75k more will that solve the issue? I mean there is no timeline for the investment right?

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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by zimba » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:08 pm

fatguyslim wrote:
I suggest you write a very good covering letter explaining this. Your director's loan agreement must also mention that 75K of the loan is simply investment in previous sole trading activity. You also need to send personal as well as business accounts, showing the 200K transactions.
Hey Zimba, IF I invested 75k more will that solve the issue? I mean there is no timeline for the investment right?
It should. There are no timelines for your investment as long as you have all the evidence
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3 part time employees equivalent to 2 full time positions

Post by Fazie » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:02 pm

Hi, Can we create three part time employees at 20 hrs each to claim points for two full time employees? That's because the total number of hours combined for three employees (when each of the employee works 20 hrs) sum up to 60 hours, which is also the total no of hours required to create two full time positions.

Any input from someone who has already claimed points in this fashion or who specializes in this category will be highly appreciated.

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Re: 3 part time employees equivalent to 2 full time position

Post by zimba » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:43 am

Fazie wrote:Hi, Can we create three part time employees at 20 hrs each to claim points for two full time employees? That's because the total number of hours combined for three employees (when each of the employee works 20 hrs) sum up to 60 hours, which is also the total no of hours required to create two full time positions.

Any input from someone who has already claimed points in this fashion or who specializes in this category will be highly appreciated.
Under transitional arrangements you can add the part time hours together to reach a full time job. Full time hours created beyond 30 hours a week are also ignored. Unfortunately It is not clear from the rules/guide if you can add 3 part time hours to claim 2 full time jobs.
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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by CHSG » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:48 pm

Hi guys!

I've not been using this forum for a while and I'm not sure whether this is the right place to post my question, but I thought I'd give it a try.

I have a question about T1 Entr. extension. My T1 Entr. leave to remain (originally granted for 3 years and 4 months) expires on 28.12.2016. When can I apply for an extension here in London? The T1 Ent policy guidance states:
If you are in the UK we encourage you to apply at least a month before your existing leave expires. If you apply much earlier than this you risk having a shortfall in leave if you choose to apply for settlement. This is because any further grant of leave is given from the date that we make the decision, not the date your leave expires.
Is it safe to say that I can apply any time not earlier than 4 months before 28.12.2016 to make sure that 5 year continuous stay in the UK remains valid for a settlement application in future after 2 year extension is granted? And also, HO will probably take 8 weeks to decide on my application, which is an extra 2 months. So, would you recommend that I apply, let's say, in early August this year (2 months for decision making + 3 months settlement allowance)? I hope you understand what I mean here.

Thank you very much in advance.

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Re: Tier 1 extension questions

Post by zimba » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:26 pm

When was your visa issued and when did you arrive here ??

You can apply for ILR after completing your 5 year period but you are allowed to be short of up to 28 days only. So basically you can apply for ILR when you almost covered your five years legal stay here
Most extension applications currently are decided under 6 weeks (I got mine in less than a month) So if you apply very early you will certainly risk of being short of more than 28 days. I usually recommend people to apply not more than 6 weeks before their expiry date.

However you have been given extra 4 months as you applied from outside. You can claim the date of your visa being issued as the start of your 5 year stay but that depends on when you entered the UK after you got the visa, so you might be able to apply a bit earlier.
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