BELGIUM VISA APPLICATION CENTRE LONDON - HELL ON EARTH!!

I have read through the detailed communication as regards the harassment & chaos which all of us have been facing at the Belgian Visa Application Centre (VAC) in London, (address 5 Lower Belgrave Street, Victoria, London SW1W 0NR). The reason that I am writing about my case is to seek recourse as to what action should I be taking next. As noticing that there are many individuals such as myself who have previously been through this predicament, & are still going through this predicament such as that I am going through, it would be good if we could somehow start a serious complaint & grievance process, which would involve the media, as well as any suggestions which you may have.

Let me summarise the details of my case in fact form.

1. I am a British Citizen, a British passport holder, travelling to Belgium on a regular basis.
2. My wife is an Indian passport holder with an Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) on her passport. She also has a 10 year USA B1/B2 visa on her passport, as well as a previous Schengen Visa (from the French Embassy…getting that was a nightmare best forgotten!) which has expired on August 2007 this year.
3. As previous, we were advised by the Belgium Embassy to visit the Belgian Visa Application Centre in London so as to get the Schengen visa for my wife (she would be accompanying me on regular trips to Belgium) as when-ever it suits her.
4. I being British, & my wife being a spouse of a British Citizen, filled in the Schengen Visa application form as requested, & provided all the documentation that we need to provide (as was previously done for the Schengen Visa which she had from the French Embassy).
5. The documentation that is needed is our passports, our marriage certificate, 2 passport photographs, & the Schengen Visa application form.
6. Also it is my understanding that we do not need to fill in those sections of the Schengen Visa application form which have been marked with an asterisk (*). In the form it specifically mentions that those areas marked with an asterisk (*) do not need to be filled in by spouses of EU/EEA/British Citizens.
7. We (my wife) submitted the form at the visa centre in London (we do not live in London, so it was a hassle to get there. As I did not need to make an application, I was told very rudely not to sit next to her, as that would jeopardise the application process, which was not only embarrassing but also made me feel that I was committing some fraud!!
8. My wife was asked when & where she would be travelling, followed by a plethora of documentation that was requested which included the following:- 6 months bank statements, original travel tickets, hotel bookings, full journey itinerary, travel insurance, employer letters, home office letters, life insurance policies, invitation letter/purpose of journey letter from Belgium.
9. When I intervened & challenged the individual clerk concerned at the visa application centre, I was told that if those documents are not provided then the application would be rejected. Further, she mentioned that although the Schengen visa form had asterisks on them, we would still need to fill in the full form, & provide the full-visa fee & the application fee as well.
10. I obviously was completely taken aback by all this, & when I tried to intervene again, I was abruptly told to leave the premises, as I was seriously hindering the application process.
11. My wife mentioned that she would be travelling with me to Belgium in the next week sometime, as the tickets would be provided to us at the station (St Pancras) as they are in e-ticket format, provided as a gift to us by our friends. I would then be getting other tickets while staying in Belgium to travel around a bit with my wife in Europe (as she has not done that much travelling but I have due to my work purposes).
12. When she mentioned the above, the clerk at the VAC said that she would not be able to take the application. At this point I again intervened (I had not left as you may have guessed), & mentioned & explained how we propose to spend the near 3 weeks holiday in Belgium, & probably in some other countries as well (we make up trips as we go along – as we hate package holidays!)
13. When I mentioned Eurostar as our mode of travel, it was mentioned that tickets to Eurostar would not be valid (firstly because the were e-tickets, as the originals you get only when you punch in the numbers on the vending machine with your credit card at St Pancras in London, & secondly, because Eurostar would not travel to Belgium directly, but would go via France, hence my wife could not get a Schengen from Belgium!)
14. Then they mentioned that if we were to travel by Eurostar, she could only get a Schengen visa from France (although we would be going to Belgium, staying in Belgium & not travelling to France at all!) After this argument failed, they mentioned that we could not get the Eurostar to Europe (Belgium) as France becomes the first point of contact. When I mentioned that we would be spending the most time in Belgium, they said flying was the only option.
15. When I then mentioned that what I would do with the e-tickets on the Eurostar, which I have already paid for, they said that I should not have booked the tickets, although the very next moment they said that we needed to show the original tickets (a complete oxymoron!!)
16. At this point I was really losing it, but I kept calm & let my wife apply anyway, as we would be hitting Belgium next week anyway. They happily then proceeded towards payment, & charged us a hefty amount (£64), which when I asked, came down (they were charging for the visa fee as well if I had not pointed it out!) They still charged £22 which is apparently illegal, & have sent the passport to the Belgian Embassy.
17. Now, it as been a week & they are not replying to any phone-call, email, letter or communication at all. Whenever I or my wife has contacted them, they are saying that it is in process, & refuse to comment on what the status is, & when the passport will be returned with the Schengen Visa. When we applied, the VAC said it would take 48 hours (& so did the Belgian Embassy), but it has long gone over 48 hours.
18. What we are concerned is that all our December holiday plans would be jeopardised. Although we are also going to Italy & probably Germany & Austria as well, & could have applied at the Italian Embassy, they are even worse (no appointment before second week of January 2008, & we would be spending a longer time in Belgium, as well as visiting Belgium more number of times), hence the approach to the Belgium Embassy.
19. After all this we are in a serious conundrum. My wife’s passport is stuck at the Embassy, they are being deliberately non-responsive (I think they realised that they would not be able to get the documentation that they are looking for, & that the documentation that they are asking for is not a pre-requisite anyway…as I have learnt from the communication that I have followed through on your website, hence them being non-responsive!!), & they have charged £22 which they are not willing to refund as well.
20. We both a trying desperately to get back the passport, but have had not much of a success at present. If they reply & give the Schengen visa by this week, then its going to be fine, or else we would loose all the money on our tickets & the bookings for the tickets, car-hire etc, & even the money for the hotels etc etc.
21. I am thinking of a way…I have used this site before, & previously some advice that was provided to me was very accurate & really helpful, so I am asking for the next course of action that I/we should take. Worst comes to worst, should we be going to the police? It is quite strange, but in my 35 years in UK (I am British born), & my wife’s nearly 5 years in UK, we both have never been treated so badly & embarrassingly before. I really need to make this public, make others like myself aware of all this, & I think we need to take a joint & collective action against this with immediate effect.
22. Just to add, after mentioning that I was a local government staff, & my wife a medic, working in public health within the NHS, they seemed to calm down slightly (as before that the staff at the VAC were shouting & behaving very rudely).

With all the above in details, what would you suggest should be the next best course of action? Please help. Thanking Mr & Mrs S K Chatterjee.

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thanks very much for pointing me to the documentation. I have also heard that there is a document called ... ' how to get the best out of Directive 2004/38/EC'...in that document it mentions:-

Documents that can be required when applying for the visa
The right of entry of your third country family members is derived
from their family ties with you, a Union citizen. All the Member
State consular officials can ask for is their passport and a
document establishing their family ties with you, such as
marriage or birth certificate and proof of dependence, where
applicable. Your family members cannot be asked to present
documents such as travel tickets, employment certificate, pay slips,
bank statements, proof of accommodation and means of
subsistence or a medical certificate.

assuming that this is taken from the directive as you have mentioned in your reply, I am slightly getting lost as to exactly which section of the directive is this referrring to. The reason why I would like to know this is because I understand that this is a breach of the article, & hence a breach of the law (as this article is seen as the code of law in Belgium)...hence it also violates the EU commission's common law, & as per the directive (from the bigger document) also violates the fundamental right of my spouse (in this case my wife) to travel with me.

If you can point me to the part of the directive which related to this part, as mentioned above, then I could start a case againt the Belgian consulate.

If other people are willing to join me in my campaign, I would be most willing to form a group...as I think the Belgian embassy must be put on the spot & made to answer!!

Thanks again in advance in anticipation of your help

skchatterjee

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Thanks for this thread skchatterjee2006 and the hope of justice johnsienk.
My Philippine wife and I were starting to think we were suspected criminals.

We have been married for 8 years, my wife has indefinite leave to stay here in the UK.

We planned to see my ex-pat. parents in France yesterday, borrow their van after a couple of days and then drive to Brussels and camp/stay in B&B or any hotels that took our fancy.
The trip would be mostly in Belgium so naturally we applied to the Belgium embassy for a Shengen visa. Happily the website says this can be done by post.

Flights were booked well in advance and we got together the required documentation for a spouse of an EU citizen and filled in the form ignoring the asterisk parts.
Previous trips to France required an interview so a phone call to the Belgium visa section confirmed that "Anyone can apply by post".
The web site states that processing time can be 4-5 weeks for my wife so we posted 7 weeks in advance.

No correspondance from the embassy was received and last week we started to get worried the visa might not show so I tried calling the enquiries line during the stated hours without any answer.
My wife managed to leave a message two days before the flight out and we recieved a call back later that evening saying that we needed to supply a hotel booking and car insurance for the trip.

So I booked an arbitary hotel in Brussels, received confirmation and got my dad to e-mail us the car insurance.

On the day of the flight out, we went to London and gave them what they wanted only to be told we also need to supply a letter of invitation, my Fathers ID, bank statements and a new non-refundable Flight confirmation for the one we missed.
Next day we went back and the guy said "This is an unusual case with the driving plan and criticized the clarity of my fathers French ID scan. I asked the guy if they had all the documents necassary to which he said yes.
On the way home my wife realized the hotel booking had not been passed over, so upon returning home I e-mailed it to the only known address 'infobelgium@vfs-be-uk.com'.
I have serious doubts that we will be successful with this application.

Summary:-
26/4/08 Booked return flight to France for 3/6/08 to 16/6/08.
28/4/08 Sent required documents proving marrage, residence and Shengen visa application for spouse of EU citizen.
02/6/08 Recieved call requiring car insurance certificate and hotel booking.
03/6/08 Missed outbound flight to France, went to London & supplied car insurance, hotel booking, flight documents. Additional documents required again, they did not take above documents
04/6/08 Went to London, supplied Letter of invite, fathers ID, new flight plan for 07/6/08-16/6/08, bank statements forgot hotel booking. Operator did not check documents even after asking.
06/6/08 Anticipated passport collection with or without visa.

Total cost so far including unexpected London travel is around £300 and 3 lost holiday days when it would have been less than £100 to visit my parents and then on to a mediocre country that should be glad of the tourism.
I get the impression that the visa section at the Belgium embassy understand the rules less than the travellers.
Count us in if this thread becomes a lobby group. Ideally we'd like them to compensate us for lost holiday time and costs regardless of the application outcome.

VACs? Are those the ones run by a certain Indian company?

By coincidence I today posted a formal letter of complaint to the belgian embassy "without prejudice" reminding them of their legal obligations and demanding a reply.

Relevant sections below:

Please find attached an email initially sent to yourselves on 14th May, followed up with a fax copy later that day after the email bounced and, when no reply was forthcoming, sent again by post on the 22nd May.

When I finally received a reply, by telephone, on the 27th May I was abruptly told that you no longer allow applications at the embassy from non-belgians and that my spouse must apply via the Application Centre.

This not only contravenes your obligation to provide 'every facility' to obtain a visa, but also means that it is no longer possible to obtain a visa from Belgium ‘free of charge’ since the only available route is to pay £24 to the Visa Application Centre, in direct contravention of the obligations of Directive 2004/38. Your application centre also advises people that it will process only 60 applications per day, which again is not ‘as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure’.

When I queried how this was in line with your legal obligations I was (very rudely) told that "maybe we can make an appointment for you, but it will be three weeks from now". This not only contravenes what I was initially told, but itself seems to be in contravention of your legal obligation to facilitate the visa as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

Nothing was said, and no apology made, for the lack of replies, the inaccuracy of the information on your website, or the non-functioning of your advertised email address.

I have consulted the EU Citizen´s Signpost Service who agree with me that your current position contravenes the Directive. They suggested I remind you of your obligations, and advised me of the various legal remedies available to me in the British courts should I wish to pursue matters further after receiving your reply.

Consequently, I wish to draw your attention to Article 5.2 of ‘Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States’ and specifically to the section highlighted:

“Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement. Member States shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.â€

SparkGap wrote:Ideally we'd like them to compensate us for lost holiday time and costs regardless of the application outcome.

Sue them in the small claims court.

Today, our promised day of passport collection for my Philipine wife and I commenced with a lot of head scratching behind the desk and finally a reply: "For some reason the passports have been held at the embassy, Try again Monday" at which point my wife broke down.
I said we wanted the passports today because we are to fly tomorrow and preferred to take our chances minus Shengen visa at the airports.

The operative said we could try going to the Embassy but then looked worried and said "For goodness sake don't tell then I told you" then refused to give the address of the embassy. Which was strange.

On the way out I asked the security guard where the embassy was and she thought it was near Hyde park which was a start.

We located it after a bit of Googling on my wifes phone and found it at Grosvenor Crescent.
Entry was as easy as ringing the doorbell. The waiting area was completely empty. The receptionist seemed amazed at our story and annoyed that the visa section had denyed us the address.

We got our passports, marrage certificate, other evidence and unused return special delivery envelope in about ten minutes.

I asked why this application had caused so much grief and it seems that flying to France then driving to Belgium cannot be processed in less than 7 weeks!

This is clearly not accelerated processing and restrictions had been imposed on freedom of travel though the EU for third country spouses.

We no longer care about Belgium. The holiday has been cut short and we'll just stay in France with my parents. Our original point of entry.

Next :- Flying from Stanstead to Rodez France without a Shengen visa but with all required documents proving the right to travel for a spouse of an EU citizen Philippine or otherwise.

SparkGap wrote:it seems that flying to France then driving to Belgium cannot be processed in less than 7 weeks!

!

You should try and get that in writing.

My previous post described reaching the end of a 'reasonable time' for any 'accelerated processing' for my wife's Shengen visa and demanding our passports back before another flight booking lapsed.

Our check-in at Ryanair Stanstead was almost normal, the clerk asked her collegue if a Filipino needed a visa and I'm pretty sure the reply was "Not if they are married", which re-enforced everything I have read about rights of exit and entry. So we boarded.

At Rodez, France things took a turn for the worse and the border official refused entry for my wife. The official even double checked with his superiors on his phone.
I pleaded and I said we have all the documents to support her right of entry with or without visa, he took a brief look at our marrage certificate but it didn't make any difference.
I fetched my dad who was waiting outside to help us with his fluent French.
I had a print of the regulations and showed them her rights, but the official had made his mind up and started filling in a 'Resfus D'Entree'.
What's more he wanted her back on our plane straight away and I wasn't allowed to go with her!
A policeman showed up and he agreed with the border control decision.
By now the plane was loaded with passengers and waiting to take off.
They gave her a stark choice, get on the plane or spend 24 hours in jail until the next flight!
She was escorted to the plane in floods minus luggage (the flight had closed) and off she went.
Needless to say the holiday was destroyed and I returned to the UK today to console her. She feels discriminated against.
Horrible for all concerned.

BigBrother at his best/worst!

Sue them.

mym wrote:Sue them.

Unfortunately, that's the only way these people will learn. I wonder if this is the sort of "no win, no fee" situation?

This relates to my post about why certain people with valid visas in one EU/EEA country would still need to go through so much hassle just to get a tourist visa/entry. I mean, she has ILR in the UK - she could easily become a British citizen within a year, maybe even immediately. I know they need to be stringent, but it doesn't make sense to refuse someone (not only on the basis of the European directive) with enough ties to the UK AND who, by definition from the European directive, should have been allowed entry without the need for a visa.

I personally won't let this lie. It is the very fact that no one does anything (or tried but could get enough remedy) about these situations that they continue to get away with it. Not knowing the rules is one thing - but at least the supervisors or higher authorities should know.

Then again....if the embassy staff don't know, how would the Immigration Officers? It is, however, humiliating to be treated like a criminal/illegal entrant, especially after having tried so hard to secure a visa, only to have incompetent staff deal with the situation from the very start.

sakura wrote:

mym wrote:Sue them.

Unfortunately, that's the only way these people will learn.

Absolutely. Use your anger Sparkgap!

http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTex ... dateTexte=

that's the french national legislation - article 1,chapter1, section 1, Art. R. 121-2 - which states that entry should be allowed if your wife could proof by any other means that she was covered by free movement in France.

flyboy wrote:http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTex ... dateTexte=

that's the french national legislation - article 1,chapter1, section 1, Art. R. 121-2 - which states that entry should be allowed if your wife could proof by any other means that she was covered by free movement in France.

And under which conditions do the French think someone is "covered by free movement"?

mym wrote:I will report back...

And I received this bland response today from the Consul himself:

Following your letter dated 05 June 2008, I have the pleasure to inform you that your partner can apply for his visa at the Embassy on Monday 16-06 at 10 30 a.m.

The visa will be free of charge provided official proof of being member of your family is presented.

For all other documents to provide, please consult our website www.vfs-be-uk.com List of documents depends on purpose of journey.

sakura wrote:

mym wrote:Sue them.

I personally won't let this lie. It is the very fact that no one does anything (or tried but could get enough remedy) about these situations that they continue to get away with it. Not knowing the rules is one thing - but at least the supervisors or higher authorities should know.

Then again....if the embassy staff don't know, how would the Immigration Officers? It is, however, humiliating to be treated like a criminal/illegal entrant, especially after having tried so hard to secure a visa, only to have incompetent staff deal with the situation from the very start.

The French Immigration Officers did know the rules and that's why they refused to let her enter. If you read the directive and check the Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 it refers to you'd realise that a Filipino who only has UK ILR needs a visa to enter the Schengen zone even if they are married to British citizen.

Rubbish. Directive 2004/38/EC overrides some provisions of the 2001 Regulation on Visa Nationals.

Get your facts right.

The French Immigration Officers did know the rules and that's why they refused to let her enter. If you read the directive and check the Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 it refers to you'd realise that a Filipino who only has UK ILR needs a visa to enter the Schengen zone even if they are married to British citizen.

4. Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national
of a Member State, does not have the necessary travel documents or, if
required, the necessary visas, the Member State concerned shall, before
turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to
obtain the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a
reasonable period of time or to corroborate or prove by other means that
they are covered by the right of free movement and residence.


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 430:EN:PDF

The documents were offered.

It might override some provisions, but a Filipino without a residence card will still need a visa. And as no embassy will issue a visa to a Filipino on the same day (minimum of 2 weeks delay) trying to get one at the point of entry ain't likely to happen.

djb123 wrote:It might override some provisions, but a Filipino without a residence card will still need a visa. And as no embassy will issue a visa to a Filipino on the same day (minimum of 2 weeks delay) trying to get one at the point of entry ain't likely to happen.

You are wrong. The Right of Entry is deniable only in very limited and clearly set out circumstances - not having a visa is not one of them.