EU National Applying for UK Permanent Residence

Hi.

In the light of the recent events and uncertainty related to the EU citizens status in the UK, I would want to try to apply to obtain Permanent Residence in the UK as an EU National but I am not sure my application can be successful. Hence, this message trying to seek advice.

I must admit I always thought that, as an EU national, the application for residence was optional, that is why I didn't think about it too much.

The position I am in is not very straightforward, so I thank in advance to anybody that takes their time to read through this:

- I am a Romanian national living in the UK since 2010 but haven't been been unemployed until now;
- I do have a BA degree in Journalism and English obtained in Romania; upon moving here, I studied and was granted a Masters degree in the UK (September 2011);
- afterwards, I was granted a Blue Registration Certificate in 2012 which allowed free access to the labor market (Blue Card was required for Romanians and Bulgarians at that time to legally work and apply for work in the UK);
- after that, I started looking for jobs, without much luck though (2012-2013) - little evidence of this is preserved as e-mail folders and job accounts have been changed since then; I do have a few applications but not many;
- did an online course which granted me a Level 2 Certificate in Business Administration (accredited by NCFE), thinking of acquiring the necessary skills for becoming self-employed;
- then worked on a self-employed basis but got very few clients and very little money;
- worked on a volunteer (sometimes paid ) basis (project based) with a national charity since 2014 until now;
- over the 5 years I was self-sufficient as a result of the financial support of my partner (unmarried partner, an EU national himself, with no gaps in employment, working for NHS, himself in the process of applying for Permanent Residence in view of obtaining British Citizenship, he will most probably have no issues with that);
- I do have a National Insurance Number but I can't remember using it personally in any way;
- I never claimed benefits although I remember I visited the Job Centre at one point in my attempt at receiving help for finding a job;
- never used any form of health service although I was provided with an European Health Insurance card (which will expire next year in August).
- in January this year I took my UK driving licence to maximise my job offers and potential.

My confusion are:
- Should I apply as self-sufficient? I do have bank statements that would prove I have always had enough money, also accommodation was paid, etc. but I read I'd need a Comprehensive Health Insurance which I never thought about.
- Should I apply as self-employed? I literally issued no more than 20 invoices for a few jobs I did over the last 2 years. I do have evidence of work, promoting work, adverts seeking work, website for my services, etc. but unfortunately I didn't make it a success. Also, because I read I'd have to gain at least £5,000 per year to start thinking about paying tax, I never actually declared I have a business. I was more 'threading the waters', doing what I love to do best and what I am qualified to do.
- Should I apply as dependant on my EU national partner? In this case, should I better wait until he gets the Permanent Residence card? Or, even, after he gets the British Citizenship?
- Should I try to apply as a mix of these? How would that work?

I just fear that, despite in reality being actively trying to make a living here (by looking for different types of work, improving my skills, trying to do charity work, unpaid work, etc.), and not having any intention to abuse the system in any way, I would lose my status as a qualified worker simply because I don't have the honourable evidence of work. Which is ironic, considering I work as a photographer - plenty of evidence of all those personal projects (landscape, editorial, sometimes social), some of them published internationally but which, unfortunately, did not give, in return, any financial benefit that can be used now towards me obtaining the right to Permanent Residence.

I am very confused, stressed and frustrated and haven't been able to sleep for the last few nights. Every bit of help will be highly appreciated.

Thank you.

You seem to have 2 possible paths open to you but, unfortunately, and as you have realised, it isn't going to be easy.

1) Self-sufficient qualified person (based on partner's support) but yes, you would need CSI in place throughout the qualifying period.

2) If you can show you have a durable relationship 'akin to marriage' you could be included as the extended family member in the application of your EEA partner/sponsor.

As an EFM you would need to have had a RC issued to you as an EFM.
I don't know if you can use your blue card (RC) for that purpose as it won't have been issued to you under the auspices of your partner.

Self-employment status is unlikely to work as you have to meet the EU law criteria of genuine and effective work.
In addition HO, somewhat controversially, applies its PET/MET tests to decide who it accepts is a worker.

And voluntary work can only be classed as a self-sufficient activity (but again CSI required).

Note if partner does naturalise then he will not be able to sponsor any family dependents under EU route.
(Under UK law, even before Brexit, a BC is not recognised as an EEA national in this context, even if they are a dual national).

Thank you for your time and reply.

Indeed, as you generously explained, I think the best route to try is the extended family member one.

Have printed the EEA (PR) a few hours ago and have looked over it with my partner, trying to prepare the answers and documents. We gathered that we need one form and we both can apply at once, him being the main applicant/qualified status and me, the EFM.

Everything went well until Section 14 - Extended family member (relative) who is dependent on the EEA national or is a member of their household

when there is the note: "You must have held valid residence documentation (registration certificate, residence card or EEA family permit) as the relevant EEA national's extended family member throughout the relevant qualifying period. If you have not, you will not qualify for permanent residence. If you wish to apply for a registration certificate or residence card, you should complete form EEA (EFM) instead."

I am very confused about this note, and please excuse me for this: does this note refer to me or to him?

**I obtained my Blue Registration Certificate in February 2012 after I graduated from the MA in September 2011. The Blue Card doesn't state how I obtained it, just that I have no restrictions on the employment in the UK (you mentioned that as an EFM I would need to have had a RC issued to me as an EFM, totally new information to me, I honestly can't remember exactly on what grounds it was granted to me, I just sent in the relevant form and documents to the Home Office). My partner has a Yellow Certificate (self-employed, dentist), so I presume I actually couldn't have made mine as an EFM (?!).

My questions are:

- Is the above-mentioned Note referring to me or to my partner in the application?

- What does 'relevant qualifying period' mean in the context of the above paragraph? Is it referring to the EFM's 5 years period of residence?

- If yes, should I attach at this point documents to support my status before 2012, that is before obtaining the RC? (Student, job seeker etc.)

- Or should I just complete the EEA (EFM) form instead, separately from my partner's EEA (PR)? It doesn't make sense though, since on the EEA (PR) there are sections dedicated to the EFM which I feel I can complete satisfactorily.

- On the back of my Registration Certificate it is written: 'Generally, after five years' residence in the UK exercising a treaty right a national of an EEA state becomes a permanent resident and may request a Document Certifying Permanent Residence.' Giving the fact that my Registration Certificate was issued in 2012, should I rather wait until next year with my application, so that the five years period (2012-2017) is complete, thus ignoring the period when I was a student, and the job seeking period afterwards? It would be a lie though, as I entered UK in 2010.

- Is my partner's change in status - either as a UK Permanent Resident or, later, as a British Citizen - possible to make things easier for me in terms of acquiring similar rights? I am asking this because I'm thinking if it isn't actually best to focus on his application now and applying for me later? Maybe even marry?

- Would it be good to ask the advice of an immigration law consultant?! Is it really that bad?

Thank you so much, I really appreciate your help.

noajthan,

A few details on my Blue Registration Certificate - as I might have confused you a bit (not sure you meant the same thing when referring to 'blue card/RC).

On the Home Office guidance I read this - I have the Blue Registration Certificate (the full one, I suppose, as a skilled worker, after obtaining the UK degree):

"Other documents issued to EU2 nationals and their family members during the accession period:
- Yellow registration certificate. This document was issued to EU2 nationals who were under worker authorisation but who were exercising free movement rights as a self- employed person, student or self-sufficient person.
- Blue registration certificate. This document was issued to EU2 nationals who were exempt from worker authorisation. It confirmed that the holder had unconditional access to the UK labour market. There were two types of blue registration certificate:
- ‘half’ blue: issued to EU2 nationals who were exempt because they were a family member of another EU2 national who had a right of residence as a self-employed person, student, self-sufficient person, or authorised worker.
- ‘full’ blue: issued to all other categories of exempt EU2 nationals.
 Family member residence stamp - issued to non-EEA national family members of EU2 nationals who were authorised workers.
 Residence cards - issued to family members and extended family members of EU2 nationals (except if the EU2 national was an authorised worker). They look the same as residence cards issued to other non-EEA national family members."

livia wrote:Thank you for your time and reply.
...

My questions are:

- Is the above-mentioned Note referring to me or to my partner in the application?

- What does 'relevant qualifying period' mean in the context of the above paragraph? Is it referring to the EFM's 5 years period of residence?

- If yes, should I attach at this point documents to support my status before 2012, that is before obtaining the RC? (Student, job seeker etc.)

- Or should I just complete the EEA (EFM) form instead, separately from my partner's EEA (PR)? It doesn't make sense though, since on the EEA (PR) there are sections dedicated to the EFM which I feel I can complete satisfactorily.

- On the back of my Registration Certificate it is written: 'Generally, after five years' residence in the UK exercising a treaty right a national of an EEA state becomes a permanent resident and may request a Document Certifying Permanent Residence.' Giving the fact that my Registration Certificate was issued in 2012, should I rather wait until next year with my application, so that the five years period (2012-2017) is complete, thus ignoring the period when I was a student, and the job seeking period afterwards? It would be a lie though, as I entered UK in 2010.

- Is my partner's change in status - either as a UK Permanent Resident or, later, as a British Citizen - possible to make things easier for me in terms of acquiring similar rights? I am asking this because I'm thinking if it isn't actually best to focus on his application now and applying for me later? Maybe even marry?

- Would it be good to ask the advice of an immigration law consultant?! Is it really that bad?

Thank you so much, I really appreciate your help.

The note refers to you, the dependent;
EFMs have to have had a RC or they can't apply for confirmation of PR.

Normally the EFM RC is issued from day one in connection with their partner/sponsor.
Of course you have a blue card issued to you (it seems in your own right). I don't know if that counts in this scenario.

The difficulty is, although you have that card you weren't able to follow through and fully exercise the treaty rights for 5 continuous years.
The card is not a 'visa' and is not enough in itself.

Yes, the qualifying period referred to is the full 5 year period in UK.

Note Partner must not naturalise if he is ever going to sponsor you. Once British he can't sponsor anyone anymore under EU rules; (I think I mentioned that already).

Partner's holding PR status is fine - but do keep abreast of the media and the timing of UK's final exit.
If he holds PR he needs to naturalise just 'in time' after sponsoring you for as long as possible - unless you start to exercise treaty rights in own right;
(ie partner to naturalise while his PR is still recognised as being a kind of settled status in UK).

livia wrote:noajthan,

A few details on my Blue Registration Certificate - as I might have confused you a bit (not sure you meant the same thing when referring to 'blue card/RC).

On the Home Office guidance I read this - I have the Blue Registration Certificate (the full one, I suppose, as a skilled worker, after obtaining the UK degree):

"Other documents issued to EU2 nationals and their family members during the accession period:
- Yellow registration certificate. This document was issued to EU2 nationals who were under worker authorisation but who were exercising free movement rights as a self- employed person, student or self-sufficient person.
- Blue registration certificate. This document was issued to EU2 nationals who were exempt from worker authorisation. It confirmed that the holder had unconditional access to the UK labour market. There were two types of blue registration certificate:
- ‘half’ blue: issued to EU2 nationals who were exempt because they were a family member of another EU2 national who had a right of residence as a self-employed person, student, self-sufficient person, or authorised worker.
- ‘full’ blue: issued to all other categories of exempt EU2 nationals.

...

See the HO guidance on EFMs:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

There is an example on page 28-29 of someone switching from being a FM (with FM RC) to being an EFM and being issued with an EFM RC.
Maybe you can do that and switch from blue cardholder (in own right) to dependent of your partner and get an EFM RC on that basis.

You would normally then have to hold that status for 5 years in order to acquire PR.

As there probably isn't going to be time for PR to be acquired in that normal way, it seems you may have to rely on traditional British fair play and whatever transitional arrangements may be put in place (if any) for all those still 'in flight' as the final exit looms.

Thanks again, noajthan, for all the clarifications. I appreciate your answer and time.

It is important to understand the meaning of the Note I quoted above because there is a big contradiction in my mind at the moment:The qualifying period is 5 years but this Registration Certificate I have expires after 5 years (in 2017, in my case); hence, does the year before receiving the Registration Certification (while I was a student) qualify towards 'accumulating' the relevant qualifying period? Or should I in 2017 when 5 years would have passed since receiving this?

Also, it seems that Section 14 of the EEA (PR) - the only one that deals with the dependant in more detail - doesn't ask for details on the way in which I exercised the treaty rights; nor does any other place on this application (made with my partner as the entitled/qualified person and me, as a dependant). Am I missing something?

livia wrote:Thanks again, noajthan, for all the clarifications. I appreciate your answer and time.

It is important to understand the meaning of the Note I quoted above because there is a big contradiction in my mind at the moment:The qualifying period is 5 years but this Registration Certificate I have expires after 5 years (in 2017, in my case); hence, does the year before receiving the Registration Certification (while I was a student) qualify towards 'accumulating' the relevant qualifying period? Or should I in 2017 when 5 years would have passed since receiving this?

Also, it seems that Section 14 of the EEA (PR) - the only one that deals with the dependant in more detail - doesn't ask for details on the way in which I exercised the treaty rights; nor does any other place on this application (made with my partner as the entitled/qualified person and me, as a dependant). Am I missing something?

Dates on RCs are largely meaningless.
These type of cards only confirm rights, they don't grant them.
The dates on your blue card don't relate to time spent as the EFM of your partner either.

What counts is time in UK actually exercising treaty rights.
Or, if a dependent, time in UK with a sponsor (qualified person) who is exercising treaty rights (or has PR).

Your student time would count if applying in own right (but only if you had had CSI).

The point is if applying as a dependent the dependent doesn't exercise treaty rights. That's why it doesn't matter any more that you didn't have CSI etc. Your activity in UK is immaterial (in immigration terms) when counted as a dependent.

It is only the sponsor who has to exercise the treaty rights.
All the dependent has to do is reside in UK for 5 years at the same time as the sponsor.
For partners and couples, even cohabitation is not mandated under EU law but ofcourse it helps as you do need to show the durable relationship 'akin to marriage'.

The only complication is that as an EFM you also have to possess a RC issued in relation to your sponsor.
(That's not the case for a direct FM or an EEA applicant in own right).

**Thanks, noajthan, I think I finally understood what you meant.

The note also says: 'If you wish to apply for a registration certificate or residence card, you should complete form EEA (EFM) instead.'

We were totally unaware of this, we would have otherwise applied for it earlier.

If I'd apply for this NOW, I presume I'll have to wait another 5 years until I can apply for PR (which sounds a bit of a fantasy in the current climate). Also, my partner would have to be 'stuck' at the PR stage - as you said - because he wouldn't be able to sponsor me as a British citizen. That sounds a bit crazy at the moment. I feel he shouldn't do that for me.

Your advice helped us understanding so much where we're at. Tremendously. I am very grateful.

What would you suggest as the best option for us at the moment? Thank you so much!

livia wrote:**Thanks, noajthan, I think I finally understood what you meant.

The note also says: 'If you wish to apply for a registration certificate or residence card, you should complete form EEA (EFM) instead.'

We were totally unaware of this, we would have otherwise applied for it earlier.

If I'd apply for this NOW, I presume I'll have to wait another 5 years until I can apply for PR (which sounds a bit of a fantasy in the current climate). Also, my partner would have to be 'stuck' at the PR stage - as you said - because he wouldn't be able to sponsor me as a British citizen. That sounds a bit crazy at the moment. I feel he shouldn't do that for me.

Your advice helped us understanding so much where we're at. Tremendously. I am very grateful.

What would you suggest as the best option for us at the moment? Thank you so much!

Its tricky isn't it.

its probably little consolation that you're not alone - unless there's safety in numbers.

It's easy for me but you're the ones with skin in the game.

I'd suggest partner applies for confirmation of PR - get that in the bag at least.
At the same time you could shoot for an EFM RC.
(I'm not aware why you couldn't send the two applications together in same bundle as some of the evidence would be common to both),

Then its a case of hanging on as long as you dare with partner sponsoring you until he finally has to naturalise to be sure of citizenship.
If exit takes 2 or 3 years then you have maybe 18 months or 2 years before taking serious decisions.

(Unless of course you start exercising treaty rights in own right, if so get your own EEA QP RC; if you marry, but remain a dependent, then get a FM RC).

You would have to go with the flow and hope to be covered by whatever transitional arrangements there may be for RC holders.
This is pure speculation but there have been such arrangements made in the past when big rule changes (to UK's EEA Regulations) have been rolled out. They are usually based on holding a RC at a critical date.

Hi, noajthan.

After a few sleepless nights of research and reflection, I've decided I won't do anything at the moment as everything is very uncertain; will try to apply for residence (not permanent) as self-employed (EEA)(QP) in winter.

Question: After how long of being in the UK and registered as a trader (sole trader), can I apply as a self-employed? Don't see any time-frame on the application.

My reasoning is that I'd still have at least one year to make the business work and I am still an EEA national, so nobody will throw me out of this country anytime soon, especially since I've never used any benefit/health/social service throughout my residence here. Also, I wouldn't want to stop or put in danger in any way my partner's status and route towards obtaining citizenship. I intend to do whatever I can to give my business a boost over the last 3 months, and in 6 months, I'd be able to 'feel' if it will still stand a chance. After 6 months, my partner will have Permanent Residence, and provided that my EEA (QP) as self-employed will not be able to build a strong case, then I will give up my self-employed ambitions and apply as an EFM with my partner as a sponsor. Will discuss about my self-employed status with an accountant tomorrow, looking to prepare all the evidence necessary from a legal point of view.

**Another question: If I apply today for a Comprehensive Health Insurance and have proof of substantial money in my bank account (so HO will be convinced I cannot represent a burden), would I be able to apply for residence as self-sufficient? Do you have any idea how much money should a self-sufficient have in their account? Please, excuse me if I confuse the self-sufficient with the sponsored person: a self-sufficient person is someone who can receive funds from someone else, right? My partner, in this case.

**Last question: Is there any chance to build a strong case as EEA (QP) - Self-Sufficient for Permanent Residence, showing bank statements for the last 5 years, and whatever else is necessary + a Romanian Health Insurance for the last 5 years + proving I've never ever actually applied for benefits and never had the intention to + a new Comprehensive Sickness Insurance, dated July 2016? Would a cover letter explaining my activity in the UK, supporting volunteer organisations with my work, recommendations and feedback from clients, prints of exhibitions, competitions I won, my work in national media, etc. and explaining my self-sufficient basis as support from my partner, stand any chance? Is there such a thing as a 'good character' for Permanent Residence?

You see, I have never thought about a private insurance in the first place because:

1) the CSI was introduced in July 2011, I graduated from the MA in October 2011, and it has been a transitional period in which students received their Residence without a requirement for the CSI - that is why I actually got my Blue Card Certification without needing a CSI; otherwise, HO would have requested me to have one for the Blue Card Certificate, and I would have known it exists, and I would have complied with it;
2) A bit anecdotical in legal terms, but I've paid between £30- £60 per week for a Personal Trainer because that's how I thought I should avoid sickness or becoming a burden for anybody: by being strong and healthy (I know that doesn't count, I'm just trying to explain to you my good intentions).

Surely, there must be a way to make HO see this, too, somehow, and, as I said, I do have a Romanian Health Insurance. (I guess I can also obtain now an EHIC from Romania but probably not retroactively). What I mean is since I've moved in this country, I have never been 'an economically inactive Union citizen using the host member state’s welfare system to fund their means of subsistence”. On the contrary. ( I've visited my GP twice to check my cholesterol levels. I find it upsetting that it is harder to prove your innocence. Certainly, these details can be checked?!) I got my NIN, I went to the Job Centre but never wanted to even think about Job Seeker's allowance as I was constantly sure I will get a job! I never thought that the fact that I did not apply for a Job Seeker's Allowance will work against me at one point! I'm telling you all these for you to understand my situation, and I'm sorry if there's too much detail.

I know you are very busy these days and I've noticed your support for others, too: in these very uncertain times, it is of tremendous help. Is there any way in which I could make a donation to this forum or to you personally as a way of thanking you for the support?

Thank you.

No donation (for me) but thank you for the offer

This is what you have to comply with as this is the guidance a caseworker will use to assess and weigh up your case:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

And if selfemployed, HO will apply this PET/MET test to you (despite it being outside and over and above EU law):
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/

CSI can't be backdated ofcourse.
Here are the rules on CSI (or EHIC alternative) and the RC transitional arrangement dating from 2011:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... issued.pdf

The EU route is very binary, meets the requirements as a qualified person (or dependent of suitable sponsor) and your status has to be confirmed.
Not meet and face refusal.
So there are no shades of grey and no concept of 'good character' (not for regular law-abiding applicants anyway).

The health thing is not about paying NI, nor about going to the gym and not needing to see a doctor etc.
Again its binary, have health cover (in cases where its required) pass;
if you don't have it (or alternative): fail.

Regarding your questions, once selfemployed and with some supporting documents to back your case you can apply for your EEA QP.
(You don't need CSI for selfemployment only for self-sufficient and as a student).

See the Qualified Person PDF (above) regarding requirements for selfemployed and selfsufficient person qps.
For example, see pages 42-44

Unfortunately there was no transitional arrangement for self-sufficient persons it was only for students.

However if you have had a Romanian EHIC valid over the last 5 years (in lieu of CSI) then look again at your student years. And the subsequent 'self-sufficient' years.
See if you can use them.

noajthan wrote:No donation (for me) but thank you for the offer

This is what you have to comply with as this is the guidance a caseworker will use to assess and weigh up your case:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

And if selfemployed, HO will apply this PET/MET test to you (despite it being outside and over and above EU law):
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/

CSI can't be backdated ofcourse.
Here are the rules on CSI (or EHIC alternative) and the RC transitional arrangement dating from 2011:
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... issued.pdf

The EU route is very binary, meets the requirements as a qualified person (or dependent of suitable sponsor) and your status has to be confirmed.
Not meet and face refusal.
So there are no shades of grey and no concept of 'good character' (not for regular law-abiding applicants anyway).

The health thing is not about paying NI, nor about going to the gym and not needing to see a doctor etc.
Again its binary, have health cover (in cases where its required) pass;
if you don't have it (or alternative): fail.

Regarding your questions, once selfemployed and with some supporting documents to back your case you can apply for your EEA QP.
(You don't need CSI for selfemployment only for self-sufficient and as a student).

See the Qualified Person PDF (above) regarding requirements for selfemployed and selfsufficient person qps.
For example, see pages 42-44

Unfortunately there was no transitional arrangement for self-sufficient persons it was only for students.

However if you have had a Romanian EHIC valid over the last 5 years (in lieu of CSI) then look again at your student years. And the subsequent 'self-sufficient' years.
See if you can use them.

_____________________________________________________________
**Just reading the CSI rules from the WhatDoTheyKnow website, page 3:

"From 20th June in both Liverpool and Sheffield, all EEA national students and self-sufficient persons (including A2 nationals) who are applying for documentary evidence of their right to reside in the UK, must provide evidence that they have comprehensive sickness insurance in the UK."

My Registration Certificate was issued on February 2012, without HO asking for CSI from me.

noajthan wrote:
And if selfemployed, HO will apply this PET/MET test to you (despite it being outside and over and above EU law):
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/

MET = £149/week?

Self-employed for 6 months at minimum £149 per week + all contributions and papers and statements - > Solid case for EEA (QP) for Residence (not Permanent Residence)?

The EEA (QP) application asks details on status before becoming self-employed though.

Would I able to state 'Jobseeker'? I do have solid evidence of Job Seeking for the last 2 years.

livia wrote:_____________________________________________________________
**Just reading the CSI rules from the WhatDoTheyKnow website, page 3:

"From 20th June in both Liverpool and Sheffield, all EEA national students and self-sufficient persons (including A2 nationals) who are applying for documentary evidence of their right to reside in the UK, must provide evidence that they have comprehensive sickness insurance in the UK."

My Registration Certificate was issued on February 2012, without HO asking for CSI from me.

It may be referring only to DCPR rather than a simple RC.
To get a RC you only need to show treaty rights at the time.
Or else you slipped through the net.

They will be looking for CSI (or EHIC or RC 'ta' now) - plenty of tales of woe and refusals in forum on that score..

livia wrote:

noajthan wrote:
And if selfemployed, HO will apply this PET/MET test to you (despite it being outside and over and above EU law):
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/

MET = £149/week?

Self-employed for 6 months at minimum £149 per week + all contributions and papers and statements - > Solid case for EEA (QP) for Residence (not Permanent Residence)?

The EEA (QP) application asks details on status before becoming self-employed though.

Would I able to state 'Jobseeker'? I do have solid evidence of Job Seeking for the last 2 years.

That article is from 2014 isn't it. The figure will have been adjusted by now (inflation, price of fish, whether there's an "r" in the month ).

But yes, 6 months rock-solid (if not unimpeachable) evidence should nail a RC.

However, no, you cannot be a jobseeker befere selfemployment. There's case law on that.
Jobseeker may only precede worker.

And HO plays hardball with jobseekers, there's a timelimit on jobseeking; also the somewhat controversial 'gpow' test which appears to be being applied retrospectively.
Ref: https://www.freemovement.org.uk/benefit ... 4-changes/

noajthan wrote:

livia wrote:_____________________________________________________________
**Just reading the CSI rules from the WhatDoTheyKnow website, page 3:

"From 20th June in both Liverpool and Sheffield, all EEA national students and self-sufficient persons (including A2 nationals) who are applying for documentary evidence of their right to reside in the UK, must provide evidence that they have comprehensive sickness insurance in the UK."

My Registration Certificate was issued on February 2012, without HO asking for CSI from me.

It may be referring only to DCPR rather than a simple RC.
To get a RC you only need to show treaty rights at the time.
Or else you slipped through the net.

They will be looking for CSI (or EHIC or RC 'ta' now) - plenty of tales of woe and refusals in forum on that score..

I feel that that slip through the net changed everything and brought me where I am now!

noajthan wrote:

livia wrote:

noajthan wrote:
And if selfemployed, HO will apply this PET/MET test to you (despite it being outside and over and above EU law):
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/using-m ... ne-worker/

MET = £149/week?

Self-employed for 6 months at minimum £149 per week + all contributions and papers and statements - > Solid case for EEA (QP) for Residence (not Permanent Residence)?

The EEA (QP) application asks details on status before becoming self-employed though.

Would I able to state 'Jobseeker'? I do have solid evidence of Job Seeking for the last 2 years.

That article is from 2014 isn't it. The figure will have been adjusted by now (inflation, price of fish, whether there's an "r" in the month ).

But yes, 6 months rock-solid (if not unimpeachable) evidence should nail a RC.

However, no, you cannot be a jobseeker befere selfemployment. There's case law on that.
Jobseeker may only precede worker.

And HO plays hardball with jobseekers, there's a timelimit on jobseeking; also the somewhat controversial 'gpow' test which appears to be being applied retrospectively.
Ref: https://www.freemovement.org.uk/benefit ... 4-changes/

I read the article on FreeMovement related to Jobseekers, thank you, noajthan (Jonathan, I suppose, ).

All these articles start from the premise you go there and ask for income support.
And they have to check you have the right to that.
Is there any way in which I can prove I never claimed Income Support?
Would that matter in any picture?

It seems that even if I make the business work better, and apply in 6 months as self-employed, would still have to say when I entered the UK and what I did before. I can't say I was a job-seeker, I can't say I was self-sufficient.

Would finding a job with an employer be of any help?

How long after I am employed can I apply for residence?

Not that finding a job would happen over night. After all, I would have done it by now.

But I guess I can take any job.

livia wrote:I read the article on FreeMovement related to Jobseekers, thank you, noajthan (Jonathan, I suppose, ).

All these articles start from the premise you go there and ask for income support.
And they have to check you have the right to that.
Is there any way in which I can prove I never claimed Income Support?
Would that matter in any picture?

The point is HO applies the genuine prospect of work test to certain categories of applicants for confirmation of PR (not just applicants for I.S). And they now seem to be applying it retrospectively
I cannot comment on why they do that.

livia wrote:It seems that even if I make the business work better, and apply in 6 months as self-employed, would still have to say when I entered the UK and what I did before. I can't say I was a job-seeker, I can't say I was self-sufficient.

Would finding a job with an employer be of any help?

How long after I am employed can I apply for residence?

Not that finding a job would happen over night. After all, I would have done it by now.

But I guess I can take any job.

Its still worth becoming s/e or getting a job. Then get your EEA QP.
I suspect possession of an EU-related document will figure in any future transitional arrangements that may be set up;
(relying on the old school British sense of fair play here).

You may not have enough miles on the PR clock for DCPR just now but a RC could be a prudent and wise investment.

But what was that EHIC or HI you mentioned? Do you have one?
If you have one, weigh it up and shoot for DCPR based on student+self-sufficiency over past 5 years. You're risking less than £100.

noajthan wrote:

livia wrote:I read the article on FreeMovement related to Jobseekers, thank you, noajthan (Jonathan, I suppose, ).

All these articles start from the premise you go there and ask for income support.
And they have to check you have the right to that.
Is there any way in which I can prove I never claimed Income Support?
Would that matter in any picture?

The point is HO applies the genuine prospect of work test to certain categories of applicants for confirmation of PR (not just applicants for I.S). And they now seem to be applying it retrospectively
I cannot comment on why they do that.

**I'm thinking now about finding a job (any job), be employed and apply for Registration Certificate as a worker in three years. Would that be okay?

noajthan wrote:

livia wrote:It seems that even if I make the business work better, and apply in 6 months as self-employed, would still have to say when I entered the UK and what I did before. I can't say I was a job-seeker, I can't say I was self-sufficient.

Would finding a job with an employer be of any help?

How long after I am employed can I apply for residence?

Not that finding a job would happen over night. After all, I would have done it by now.

But I guess I can take any job.

Its still worth becoming s/e or getting a job. Then get your EEA QP.
I suspect possession of an EU-related document will figure in any future transitional arrangements that may be set up;
(relying on the old school British sense of fair play here).

You may not have enough miles on the PR clock for DCPR just now but a RC could be a prudent and wise investment.

But what was that EHIC or HI you mentioned? Do you have one?
If you have one, weigh it up and shoot for DCPR based on student+self-sufficiency over past 5 years. You're risking less than £100.

I have to check what the Romanian National Health Insurance fund can give me as a proof of payment.
I don't have a EHIC now. Was just thinking to get one. I suppose it is not possible to pay for this retroactively - for the past 5 years, I suppose. Isn't that a temporary insurance anyway? Maximum 6 months?

( I'd want to pay retroactively for my mistake of not having CSI - but I can't. I honestly did not have any intention to abuse the welfare system in any way, and I didn't. I was just not informed.)

livia wrote:**I'm thinking now about finding a job (any job), be employed and apply for Registration Certificate as a worker in three years. Would that be okay?

What's the significance of 3 years?
We may be out of EU by then and floating off into the Atlantic like the Marie Celeste.

Once a worker you can always apply for a RC after say 3 months, when you have some supporting evidence.

Do you have Romanian EHIC or HI? If you do put a DCPR application together (covering past 5 years) and risk £65.
No penalty for refusal (and any feedback may be helpful).

noajthan wrote:

livia wrote:**I'm thinking now about finding a job (any job), be employed and apply for Registration Certificate as a worker in three years. Would that be okay?

What's the significance of 3 years?
We may be out of EU by then and floating off into the Atlantic like the Marie Celeste.

Once a worker you can always apply for a RC after say 3 months, when you have some supporting evidence.

Do you have Romanian EHIC or HI? If you do put a DCPR application together (covering past 5 years) and risk £65.
No penalty for refusal (and any feedback may be helpful).

Oh. Sorry. I wanted to say in 3 months, applying for Residence in 3 months after working! Supposing someone would want to employ an in-house photographer/translator in the current climate (these jobs are mostly freelance, hence my Self-Employed status).

Yes, you are right, we might actually be dead tomorrow. All this stress might cause some heart attack to some of us.

I have a Romanian Health Insurance. I think what I paid stands for a Health Insurance. Not sure how 'comprehensive' it is, that's what I will try to find next, haven't looked into that; I just tried to assess all the possibilities (avoiding the the sponsor-dependant thing for now) - and, at least, I seem to narrow them a bit now, more clearly, and know on what to focus next.

I wouldn't have been able to do that without your help.

Thank you very much for your support.