Start date on FPS

Hi guys I employed 2 people in 2014 their start date is missing on fps my accountant said FPS has already been submitted ways the solution would anybody help me

I have had similar issue for employees started work in March 2013, if your accountant Is using SAGE then it is difficult to do the changes in previous dates because SAGE upgraded the software in Sept 2014 and due to this changes before this date cannt be done now.

The alternative is that you can submit the employee personal history and submission record, P11 (this clearly shows the start date and leaving date) plus you also also submit the P45, P60 and employee contact copy.

Thanx Bro but problem is few days ago somebody got rejected because start date was missing on FPS

Hi mcr,

Now your only option is to prove the start date with what you have, so submit P11,P45,P60 and also try to do manual FPS and include Start date in them. Which might help for the months you dont have start date on FPS

When your accountant submits an RTI for a new employee or when an employee leaving, the start/leaving dates are ALWAYS reported to HMRC via RTI system. That is how HMRC knows when an employee starts or leaves in your company and updates the tax codes accordingly for them.
However some payroll software do not include this information in the FPS reports. The FPS reports are ONLY FOR YOUR INFORMATION and generated in the software and do NOT necessarily reflect ALL the information which has been submitted/communicated to HMRC via RTI.
Given that FPS reports are simply reports and HO demands a very specific FORMAT, you can technically prepare them yourself to reflect the correct payroll information as well as the start/leaving dates in a FORMAT that HO accepts.

See: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 09974.html

awan905 wrote:I have had similar issue for employees started work in March 2013, if your accountant Is using SAGE then it is difficult to do the changes in previous dates because SAGE upgraded the software in Sept 2014 and due to this changes before this date cannt be done now.
The alternative is that you can submit the employee personal history and submission record, P11 (this clearly shows the start date and leaving date) plus you also also submit the P45, P60 and employee contact copy.

Please stop giving advice which is not supported by the rules. Your own application was refused due to major shortcomings on your part in preparing the evidence and assuming HO accepts alternative evidence. If you are unable to support your advice with the clear evidence from the rules, you need to avoid giving them to other applicants.

Will HO accept manual FPS, 2NDLY will they accept p11, p45 p60 instead for the proof of start date

zimba88 wrote:When your accountant submits an RTI for a new employee or when an employee leaving, the start/leaving dates are ALWAYS reported to HMRC via RTI system. That is how HMRC knows when an employee starts or leaves in your company and updates the tax codes accordingly for them.
However some payroll software do not include this information in the FPS reports. The FPS reports are ONLY FOR YOUR INFORMATION and generated in the software and do NOT necessarily reflect ALL the information which has been submitted/communicated to HMRC via RTI.
Given that FPS reports are simply reports and HO demands a very specific FORMAT, you can technically prepare them yourself to reflect the correct payroll information as well as the start/leaving dates in a FORMAT that HO accepts.

See: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 09974.html

awan905 wrote:I have had similar issue for employees started work in March 2013, if your accountant Is using SAGE then it is difficult to do the changes in previous dates because SAGE upgraded the software in Sept 2014 and due to this changes before this date cannt be done now.
The alternative is that you can submit the employee personal history and submission record, P11 (this clearly shows the start date and leaving date) plus you also also submit the P45, P60 and employee contact copy.

Please stop giving advice which is not supported by the rules. Your own application was refused due to major shortcomings on your part in preparing the evidence and assuming HO accepts alternative evidence. If you are unable to support your advice with the clear evidence from the rules, you need to avoid giving them to other applicants.

In my first application P11 and full payment record was missing, I did submit the submission logs but not the full details which I noticed now. ALso I am coping from the application form about this which states that what you can submit for this.

Employee Payment Records, Real Time-Full Payment Submissions (either a series of
individual monthly submissions or summaries), or original HM Revenue & Customs P45 or
P46;

Now for RTI the issue is that those employee started before this date cannt be entered and in SAGE you cannt do changes, though it can be done in moneysoft.

If you check above statement which I copied from application form it says about RTI , employee payment record , P45 or P46. Now here employee payment record covers employ personal history, payment history and P11; however how come home office can rejects this. P11 is an official document and that clearly show the employee full details, start date, leaving date, payment, tax, NI, etc. I have had consultation with number of lawyers for my fresh application, because in my first application I did miss these documents, however now have submitted, P11, P46, RTI starting from Sep 2014 (because from this date accountant started doing this), P45 and P60; Plus payslips.

I also tried to generate the PFS before sept 2014 via moneysoft, but here an issue is arising. In moneysoft the tax and NI which employee paid is coming slightly different (difference of just a pound or some pennies) as compared to the one which was done by SAGE.

I am not an expert but what I am suggesting is after consultation with some lawyers. I can be wrong but the documents which I am stating are official documents and home office cannt deny or reject these document, because this is clearly specified in the application form.

It does not matter how many lawyers you consulted, most advice coming from them as reported on this forums seems to be inaccurate or flat our incorrect. The immigration rules are specific and do NOT recognise other proofs or other official documents. It is funny because majority of refusals reported here are due to this simple assumption that HO will deduce information from alternative evidence you submitted (and usually submitted via solicitors!). Sadly that is not true and caseworkers operate within strict guidelines set out by the rules and only recognise those documents.
Many official documents and business practices are simply NOT recognised by the immigration rules to be eligible for award of points.
I suggest you to stick to what they want from you and make your life easier and not to set yourself up for refusal !

This is NOT about convincing yourself, it is about providing the what they required as given in the rules. At the end, your solicitor is not paying the price of being refused and ending up in the abyss of uncertainty, confusion and legal drama

zimba88 wrote:It does not matter how many lawyers you consulted, most advice coming from them as reported on this forums seems to be inaccurate or flat our incorrect. The immigration rules are specific and do NOT recognise other proofs or other official documents. It is funny because majority of refusals reported here are due to this simple assumption that HO will deduce information from alternative evidence you submitted (and usually submitted via solicitors!). Sadly that is not true and caseworkers operate within strict guidelines set out by the rules and only recognise those documents.
Many official documents and business practices are simply NOT recognised by the immigration rules to be eligible for award of points.
I suggest you to stick to what they want from you and make your life easier and not to set yourself up for refusal !

This is NOT about convincing yourself, it is about providing the what they required as given in the rules. At the end, your solicitor is not paying the price of being refused and ending up in the abyss of uncertainty, confusion and legal drama

You are right. However the issue with FPS is that if you are do calculation on two different softwares, you will get different figures, especially for NI and paye tax with some slight difference. I tried a lot of get this though moneysoft but it is not working because the figures on P32, P11 and wage slips are coming different from the one which I submitted to home office.

So what can be the solution in this case for the missing time of FPS to get the correct figures. Shell we do all this manually in excel or or do some photoshop?

I guess the problem is that you are entering the incorrect tax codes or something. I guess you need to talk to your accountant who will help you get those correctly. All software given the correct details should give you the same NI, TAX calculations

zimba88 wrote:I guess the problem is that you are entering the incorrect tax codes or something. I guess you need to talk to your accountant who will help you get those correctly. All software given the correct details should give you the same NI, TAX calculations

I did check this but tax code is correct, the only difference which is coming is in NI payment, such as the payment of NI for month of May 2013 which was paid to HMRC ( generated via SAGE and for one employee) is £48.46 however when I am generating FPS via moneysoft it is giving me figure of £48.44. Due to this the net pay also changes with difference of £0.02.

So what I am thinking is to generate the FPS via moneysoft, take the prints and then scan them and then do some photoedit in order to correct the figures and then take the prints and ask the accountant to sign and stamp it. This is kind of doing this manually and by this all the figures edited will match with P11, P32, PAYSLIPS, P60 and P45; and the amount of tax which was paid to HMRC.

Although I have submitted my fresh application today, but I dont want to take any risk (because FPS from March 2013 till start of Sep 2014 is missing as accountant started this from sept 2014), though this time I submitted P11, P60,P45,P32 ; and FPS & RTI logs from Sept 2014 till now (just to mention that in my first application I only submitted employee personal history, Only RTI LOGS and P32; and FPS).

One of the lawyer was saying that homeoffice wants to check FPS in order to see that you are paying the taxes correctly or not, so if you only submit FPS of current period along with P11 and other documents mentioned before, it is fine. But when I check this forum it makes me confuse.

What do you suggest,........... the FPS from sept 2014 till now along with other additional documents are fine or do I need to generate FPS manually from march 2013 till start of sept 2014. I can get this done over the weekend and as soon as home office will send me new refernce number I will submit these FPS so that they can attach with fresh application.

i spent the whole day with my accountant he said to me FPS can't be changed already submitted so thats y the employee registered before nov 2014 u need to submit P46 thats the alternate document if i m wrong plz correct me

Small differences in payments like 2 pence is nothing to worry. You need to submit FPS for all the period your accountant submitted the payroll via RTI.

mcr2013 wrote:i spent the whole day with my accountant he said to me FPS can't be changed already submitted so thats y the employee registered before nov 2014 u need to submit P46 thats the alternate document if i m wrong plz correct me

Read what I said about FPS reports above AGAIN. You seem to repeat yourself here. P46 is not used since the end of 2013.

I had similar issue but thanks to Zimba88 explanation. I subscribed to money soft and was able to have all my FPS and payslips in the right format. Let your accountant do the RTI all you need to do is use the information he pass to you on his paper work to generate your FPS in money soft. it's so easy and straight forward

itk wrote:I had similar issue but thanks to Zimba88 explanation. I subscribed to money soft and was able to have all my FPS and payslips in the right format. Let your accountant do the RTI all you need to do is use the information he pass to you on his paper work to generate your FPS in money soft. it's so easy and straight forward

Hi

How do you make the change on moneysoft?

Thanks

Money soft's FPS works ...
You need to change figures in the deductions section.

Click on the pound sign- which gives pay details

Now choose an employee, go to adjustments, add employee nic adjustments and employer adjustments ..:
Go to tax and NIC
Add tax amount , employer and employee NIC


And then print it with the correct time stamp!!

Don't forget about the correct time stamp!!

Hope this helps!

One quick question... I don't remember the exact start date my account has put on FPS.. They used sage and it didn't show the start or leaving date of an employee...

But I used money soft to make the FPS, is it still ok?
I know the correct months of my employees and when they started working for me but not so sure about what date my accountant has put.

So I have put the start date as the official run date ie 5th of every month.

My question is will there be any issue ? If they contact HMRC and get a different date (1/2 days difference but in the same month) ?

Zimba any advice please

You have no idea when your employee started ?? You joking right ?
Ask your accountant to tell you what is the start date from Sage software. Must be somewhere in the employee details

[quote="robbie47"]Money soft's FPS works ...
You need to change figures in the deductions section.

Click on the pound sign- which gives pay details

Now choose an employee, go to adjustments, add employee nic adjustments and employer adjustments ..:
Go to tax and NIC
Add tax amount , employer and employee NIC


And then print it with the correct time stamp!!

Don't forget about the correct time stamp!!

Hope this helps![/quote]
Hi Robie47, please can you confirm how to add the correct time stamp, I've been going about it without a clue. @ Zimba88 please i'll also need your input regarding adding the correct time stamp. Many thanks

Change the clock of your computer and then run it.

Please ask the accountant for P11 and you will get the exact start date on it.
Regards

Hi Zimba, with the suggestion of robbie47, i did adjustments in moneysoft and now able to get exactly same figures which are on pay slips and P11. I have already submitted my fresh application on 13th in which FPS is from Sept 2014 onward via sage.

Now I have generated the FPS from March 2013 till August 2014 via moneysoft and asked the accountant to get them signed and stamped. Is it fine to send these missing FPS to home office and ask them to attach them with my application, as soon as I get the reference number by next week for my fresh application?

awan905 wrote:Hi Zimba, with the suggestion of robbie47, i did adjustments in moneysoft and now able to get exactly same figures which are on pay slips and P11. I have already submitted my fresh application on 13th in which FPS is from Sept 2014 onward via sage.

Now I have generated the FPS from March 2013 till August 2014 via moneysoft and asked the accountant to get them signed and stamped. Is it fine to send these missing FPS to home office and ask them to attach them with my application, as soon as I get the reference number by next week for my fresh application?

Please double check with your accountant that those FPS reports details match with what your accountant submitted since March 2013. Many companies started RTI submissions after March 2013, so be sure you are submitting FPS from the date your accountant started RTI submissions. You should be fine

Please double check with your accountant that those FPS reports details match with what your accountant submitted since March 2013. Many companies started RTI submissions after March 2013, so be sure you are submitting FPS from the date your accountant started RTI submissions. You should be fine[/quote]

Thanks and my accountant started submitting RTI from Sept 2014 onward. That's why I was mentioning that the accountant only got the FPS from sept 2014 onward, which I already submitted. However there are two employees worked from March 2013 till April 2014 and a 3rd one started in April 2014 till Nov 2014.

What I did now is, I generated FPS for 1st two employees from March 2013 till April 2014 and for 3rd employee, from April 2014 till August 2014 via moneysoft as per suggestion.

In my first application and in fresh application the start date for RTI submission is 11-Sept-2014 not March 2013. So what do you suggest, should I submit the FPS which I just generated.

I did not suggest to generate FPS reports as you wish. I said prepare FPS reports in the format acceptable by HO FROM THE DAY YOUR ACCOUNTANT STARTED REPORTING RTI. For the period before that, you can submit P46 or annual payroll submissions. TALK TO YOUR ACCOUNTANT