RTI-FPS data to Moneysoft, deception?

It has been said on this forum (even by great gurus e.g. Zimba) that if your payroll SW does not do a proper RTI-FPS report then fill in the data into moneysoft and print it out from there. Sorry but is that not deception?

12pay has a similar report but does not show start date. Easy to edit that in but again, deception?

To clarify, no chance that Zimba was suggesting to deceive, I am trying to understand what id going.

All my payrolls properly done, RTI-FPS it is just the reporting that is not clear according to rules in guidance

.

syed0083 wrote:Do you mean Zimba is trying to deceive everyone.
I can literally see he is trying to help everyone here 24/7...
If anyone deceives its easy for Home Office to find it as we all know very well they are much ahead of us.

Coming to Zimba, i dnt know how he will react to this...

Moderators(CR001, CASA AND NOAJTHAN) are here to look after these things and they made him Respected Guru for Obvious Reason.

Quite the opposite. Because it is Zimba it cannot be he is recommending deception. I am trying to learn why his suggested hack (move data manually to another payroll SW, print report, but this is not the SW that was connected to HMRC to do RTI-FPS)

On the same stream, if my payroll SW does not show starting date, can I just 'edit' the document and add that back?

seasky wrote:

syed0083 wrote:Do you mean Zimba is trying to deceive everyone.
I can literally see he is trying to help everyone here 24/7...
If anyone deceives its easy for Home Office to find it as we all know very well they are much ahead of us.

Coming to Zimba, i dnt know how he will react to this...

Moderators(CR001, CASA AND NOAJTHAN) are here to look after these things and they made him Respected Guru for Obvious Reason.

Quite the opposite. Because it is Zimba it cannot be he is recommending deception. I am trying to learn why his suggested hack (move data manually to another payroll SW, print report, but this is not the SW that was connected to HMRC to do RTI-FPS)

On the same stream, if my payroll SW does not show starting date, can I just 'edit' the document and add that back?

HO wants to see FPS with :
Starting date
Leaving date
NI paid
Tax paid
Total payment
That's it.. so you can use any software to produce that, same what you submitted to HMRC, forget moneysoft if you don't like, you can find many payrolls to do it.

Thanks

jafersadeq wrote:
HO wants to see FPS with :
Starting date
Leaving date
NI paid
Tax paid
Total payment
That's it.. so you can use any software to produce that, same what you submitted to HMRC, forget moneysoft if you don't like, you can find many payrolls to do it.

Thanks

My payroll SW does not report all that data unfortunately. I can format a perfect report in word/excel and title it RTI-FPS. All the data will be correct but IT WILL NOT BE a report generated by my payroll SW. How is that not deception?

12pay has a similar report but does not show start date. Easy to edit that in but again, deception?


All my payrolls properly done, RTI-FPS it is just the reporting that is not clear according to rules in guidance[/quote]

All payroll software have XML format report saved for each FPS submitted which can be export to CSV/PDF format and have all detailed information (including start date) required by the rules .
You need to contact your software support team and they will guide you how to download it.

seasky wrote:My payroll SW does not report all that data unfortunately. I can format a perfect report in word/excel and title it RTI-FPS. All the data will be correct but IT WILL NOT BE a report generated by my payroll SW. How is that not deception?

T1E guidance doesn't appear to mention use of software nor any specific flavour of software.
Just a copy of report sent to HMRC is referenced.
If same inputs are used what could be wrong with a report from a spreadsheet if it is a copy of what was sent previously?

You are absolutely right that in saying that copying the report that already being submitted in excel format should be fine.

But as far as Seasky query is concern , he is concern about ''Re-producing'' the FPS report using different third party software (moneysoft) and those FPS reports never submitted using moneysoft so it may be considered as deception if the CW came to know from any sources that the FPS reports ( reproduced in moneysoft template) was not submitted to HMRC, as each software create its own unique ID for submission !

In above situation, it is better to export your own software FPS XML data to the spreadsheet and send along with you actual FPS report (whatever the template is) rather than artificially reproduce the FPS at Moneysoft which are all back dated!

For those who have already done this as a HACK might have got away from this ! , but One should not take unnecessary risk in future as we are aware what happened to those who took The TOEIC Tests results as a HACK !

ukbiz wrote:12pay has a similar report but does not show start date. Easy to edit that in but again, deception?


All my payrolls properly done, RTI-FPS it is just the reporting that is not clear according to rules in guidance

All payroll software have XML format report saved for each FPS submitted which can be export to CSV/PDF format and have all detailed information (including start date) required by the rules .
You need to contact your software support team and they will guide you how to download it.[/quote]

How do you get xml from 12pay and does it really include all data needed?

Generally, its is saved in your C: folder where the software setup file is being saved , best to take assistance from 12pay technical team to locate it.

XML has all information required by rules but its is on notepad format and you can copy paste it into Word/Excel format to print in readable form.

ukbiz wrote:Generally, its is saved in your C: folder where the software setup file is being saved , best to take assistance from 12pay technical team to locate it.

XML has all information required by rules but its is on notepad format and you can copy paste it into Word/Excel format to print in readable form.

Thx ukbiz. At least that is the actual data just reformatted. Will try and repost back.

Still happy that the discussion on deception go on as this is a real issue that has been raised on the board.

yes u r right

so here is an update. 12pay payroll SW does not retrospectively produce a document titled RTI (you can print that once only at the moment of monthly submission)

It produces instead a document called "period summary" which is -exactly- the same except for title change.

My solicitor is very uncomfortable submitting changed documents (as am I). pretty much a bureaucratic deadlock here.

Another issue is that 12pay does not say start/end dates (all m

Some on the forum have suggested changing the title or reinputting the data into moneysoft. and I go back to my original question, why is that acceptable and not deception?

I have asked HMRC to send my rti-fps

HMRC will only send you Yearly Summary of FPS with all employees Total Gross figures in each Tax year, but this document won't have START or LEAVE DATE !

Now your options are quite limited here due to the limitation of your software not because of your incapability to produce the specific document with start date.

Have you not get any idea of XML FPS format from your software provider?

ukbiz wrote:HMRC will only send you Yearly Summary of FPS with all employees Total Gross figures in each Tax year, but this document won't have START or LEAVE DATE !

Now your options are quite limited here due to the limitation of your software not because of your incapability to produce the specific document with start date.

Have you not get any idea of XML FPS format from your software provider?

No. I have not figured out. 12pay is a perfectly good payroll SW for small businesses. It costs £50 a year and as such you don't really get much support.

I am surprised there are not many other users of this SW on this board who can explain how to get the XML. This board is a lot about sharing real world experiences.

I will add that the other option is to clearly explain why this is not deception (Zimba, who I respect immensely, must be on vacation...)

Reformatting and re-presenting the same, original raw data cannot really be interpreted or represented as deception.

noajthan wrote:Reformatting and re-presenting the same, original raw data cannot really be interpreted or represented as deception.

Coming from yourself this is assuring. But my solicitor is not happy nor am I.

Some data has to be (for example) original bank documentation showing your balance. You cannot download an internet copy. I assume you agree taking an older bank statement, updating it based on orifiginal raw data and presenting is not a good idea. to emphasize the data shown is 100% correct.

can someone tell me how to get the raw XML data from 12pay?

seasky wrote:

noajthan wrote:Reformatting and re-presenting the same, original raw data cannot really be interpreted or represented as deception.

Coming from yourself this is assuring. But my solicitor is not happy nor am I.

Some data has to be (for example) original bank documentation showing your balance. You cannot download an internet copy. I assume you agree taking an older bank statement, updating it based on orifiginal raw data and presenting is not a good idea. to emphasize the data shown is 100% correct.

This is not deception as long as the information correlate with the information you submitted to HMRC..

HO wants doc A to be format in pattern X, you have you doc A formatted as pattern Y...you simply format your doc to meet HO format X as long information in A remains...