UK Citizen Marrying US Citizen in Ireland - very confused

Hello all,

I've been reading through this forum in relation to obtaining Stamp 4 and EU.1 permits. I'm very confused. A little on my background:

- I am a UK Citizen.
- I am 23 years old.
- I moved here with my parents when I was 12 and did my leaving cert, junior cert and 3 years of a 4 year degree here
- I have an American girlfriend. I travel to the states in February, where she is waiting and we will marry. I return end of February and she will be here 1 week later on 1st March.
- I work as an I.T. manager and believe i have enough income to support my spouse-to-be if she were not allowed to work, but we have been separated now for over 2 months and we do not want to ever have to go through it again.

From what I gathered before, all we needed to do was apply for a STAMP4 when she arrived in Ireland, on a visa waiver, present our passports, marriage certs, birth certs etc and there wouldn't be a problem.

Now I read about having to obtain an EU.1 permit, due to my not being an Irish citizen. Is this correct even for British citizens? Do Britain and Ireland not have special concessions between each other? I know that there is right to passportless passage between the two countries, so does this also negate the requirement to obtain EU.1 permit? I called Citizens Information and they tell me Irish citizenship would take 2 years to obtain (I have no irish ancestry).

Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated, particularly from anyone who is or has been in a similar situation.

Many thanks,
-- Adam.

I get a sense of deja-vu with this question but maybe it's only because this is not the only question out there.

In any case, as far as I'm aware, British citizens living in ROI aren't given any special status in terms of sponsoring for immigration under domestic law (because ROI did everything on a case by case basis until recently) and for the time being have to use the EEA rules.

Any reason why you didn't become an Irish citizen when you were eligible (about 6 years ago)? The processing times are quite long currently, but probably were quicker then (especially for someone British).

As of now, the Irish appear to be routinely refusing EU1 applications where there is not previous residence in another EEA state. There is some debate about whether this is lawful or not.

Is Northern Ireland an option? The advantage that gives is that your girlfriend, if you get married, will have a much quicker pathway to British citizenship than to Irish citizenship, even if you manage to negotiate the EU1 rules.

As the situation stands, Northern Ireland would be the best option for you and your wife. If your wife applies for the EEA family permit from the British Embassy in the U.S she can start working in the U.K as soon as she lands.

As the situation stands, Northern Ireland would be the best option for you and your wife. If your wife applies for the EEA family permit from the British Embassy in the U.S she can start working in the U.K as soon as she lands.

I'm not sure if this would work. He's only a British citizen, not British/Irish dual. She would have to enter the UK either with him or after him, and if he relocates first to NI, then she could only apply under the UK immigration rules. I think Birdy had looked at it (spouse was American) and they were told that they had to make the application under the UK immigration rules. I'll see if I can find that old thread later.

I could be way wrong (wouldn't be the first time!), but I *think* that the Surinder Singh would only apply if she was already legally resident in Ireland and then accompanying him to the UK.

Sorry,my bad! Yankee girl is right. I don't know how much grief the British Embassy would give to an American married to a British citizen wanting to emigrate to the U.K.

To answer the first question, no, there is no special treatment for British citizens in Ireland in this case. (If you're an Irish citizen moving to the UK, then there are some special rules, but this isn't reciprocal, as far as I know.) I'm American and my husband is British, so we were in the same boat as the OP. We gave up and moved to the UK.

Going to NI should work. He would be treated as a British citizen who has been living and working in another EU country and returning to the UK, so they'd be in under the Surinder Singh principle. There's some issue with the British Embassy processing the paperwork under different criteria if you apply outside the EU vs. inside the EU, but I don't know if it would be as strict as if you apply for a spouse visa as a British citizen. This is something the OP should definitely look more into. Call the BIA maybe.

JAJ wrote: Any reason why you didn't become an Irish citizen when you were eligible (about 6 years ago)? The processing times are quite long currently, but probably were quicker then (especially for someone British).

No reason at all... I never saw the point before, as I was young, able to live and work here and the only difference I saw was that I could not vote in a referendum. I regret it now, of course.

Moving to the UK is not a viable option at the moment - I have a stable job and financial commitments.

JAJ wrote: EU1 applications where there is not previous residence in another EEA state.

I assume here you mean official residency, not merely a visitor's visa to another state? She spent some time (6 months - 1 year) in England, living and working although I must admit, I'm not sue whether this was legally or not (I will find out)

Does anyone know if the cases are actually reviewed properly? I may be British, but I have been here from a very young age, a very long time and have completed all of my education and my entire employment record in this state. Surely I have a good case? Would this require an immigration solicitor and how much can I expect to pay for a case such as this?

Thanks to all for your advice so far.

yankeegirl wrote:I'm not sure if this would work. He's only a British citizen, not British/Irish dual. She would have to enter the UK either with him or after him, and if he relocates first to NI, then she could only apply under the UK immigration rules.

Which shouldn't be a problem. Now that the ppron method to naturalisation is closed, those who choose the EEA route do need to understand the consequence in terms of eligibility for British citizenship.

thegoatherder wrote:

JAJ wrote: I assume here you mean official residency, not merely a visitor's visa to another state? She spent some time (6 months - 1 year) in England, living and working although I must admit, I'm not sue whether this was legally or not (I will find out)

Does anyone know if the cases are actually reviewed properly? I may be British, but I have been here from a very young age, a very long time and have completed all of my education and my entire employment record in this state. Surely I have a good case? Would this require an immigration solicitor and how much can I expect to pay for a case such as this?

Thanks to all for your advice so far.

I think you're asking questions for which no answer on forum exists. The Irish immigration service don't publish any of their policies, if even they have policies (as opposed to case officer whims) in the first place.

The facts I think you need to accept are:

1. You are a foreigner in the Republic of Ireland and unless you can get some concession on processing time, you won't be an Irish citizen for 2-3 years; and

2. Non-Irish citizens (other than refugees and those with working visas) cannot sponsor spouses to live in Ireland, except where permitted under the EU rules. And the EU rules as implemented in Ireland insist on previous lawful residence in another EU state. According to the INIS this rule is still in place pending appeal to the Supreme Court: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... hts%20FAQs

Your options as I see it are:

A. Try to get an outside-the-rules "concession" from the Irish. Or wait to see if the EU rules change. May cost a lot of money and time with no chance of success. Not clear if a solicitor will be any help (although you can ask).

B. Move to Northern Ireland and sponsor your wife for a U.K. visa, then:

B1. After 3 years she can get British citizenship and then you can move back to the Republic of Ireland; or

B2. After 6 months or so you could sponsor her for an Irish EU permit and bring her to the Republic. At the same time you could apply for your own Irish citizenship. It would take 5-7 years for her to become an Irish citizen this way.

C. Forget Ireland, make a virtue out of a necessity, and get her to sponsor you to live in the United States. After 3 years with a green card, you could become an American citizen.

You could be lucky, as well.

Some people without prior EU residency have managed to get 2-year Stamp 4s, instead of the EU-required 5-year residency. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason about who got flat refusals and who got this 2-year concession. Also, no one knows what happens after the 2 years. God only knows what else the Irish government was going to come up with then. Is it renewable? No one knows.

I did, eventually, get a 2-year Stamp 4, way after the six month EU-mandated processing time, and after we had already made the decision to move to the UK. But I spent nine months in Ireland without being able to work and I was sick of being faced around by the DoJ.

You could try it. But be prepared to spend the better part of a year being incredibly frustrated.