Elderly Parent - Settlement Application Refused - Hilarious reason

Sponsor applied for mother’s settlement visa and meets (no objection raised by UK Visas) the following requirements
- Financial requirements
- UK Citizenship
- Accommodation & Evidence of relationship
- Elderly mother is dependent on the sponsoring son for financial and personal support
Sponsoring son has relocated to the home country only because her mother needs the help. It was clarified in the application that sponsoring son and his wife are in home country only for their mother and would like to return to the UK as soon as the visa is granted

However, the visa was refused with the following acknowledgement
- Elderly parent is dependent on the sponsoring son – both financially and for personal support
- Sponsoring son would like to return to the UK as he is a citizen there and have a career to excel
Since the visa officer believes that the support is available in the home county (no matter it is by the sponsoring son) the application is being refused.
How can someone tell the visa officer that the whole purpose of the application has been that without the sponsoring son, her mother cannot survive in the home country? AND, the son and his wife would like to return to the UK – This was the whole reason for the visa application

Can you please help as I have now 3 weeks left to make an appeal

These visas are denied 99% of the time because;

1. UK does not support chain migration
2. Only granted on most compassionate grounds.
3. Family can relocate to mother if it's so important.

Seems a justified refusal to me, sponsor has choice to make, family or UK life.

Hi Wanderer,
Many thanks for your reply – It has helped me to see things from a different perspective.
Please note that I made the following clarifications in the sponsor letter
- I choose UK to be my home and have gained qualifications from there. Also, since my relocation, I have been in continuous employment, paying taxes and have never claimed a benefit
- I clarified that I have not been able to find a job outside the UK and I am not happy to be there at all since the UK is my home
- It is now more than 11 months since I am outside the UK only to support my mother
- I also clarified that we will not be a burden on the system.
- Due to this long stay, I am now out of job and continuously transferring money from my UK account to support my life. This eventually will run out at this stage since I see no job prospects here
- My wife holds a spouse visa (got it recently) and she is unable to settle in the UK also because of this situation.

Can you please tell if I have a strong case to appeal based on the above-mentioned points?

What are the options that I have now?

I hope you can imagine that I am in deep stress now and will much appreciate your help.

Many Thanks,

Bava

Had you asked about this visa before applying, the links below would have been provided so you can see how incredibly difficult this visa is to get and to what extent you have to prove things. None of your posts since 2013 state which country you are from, but if you are from the sub continent, care is cheap there compared to say the USA and these are the things HO look at as the second link below explains.

immigration-for-family-members/older-de ... 0-300.html

immigration-for-family-members/adult-de ... 87771.html

I hope you realise that by being refused for this visa, the door to getting a visitor visa will also be shut now due to your mother stating her intention to settle in the UK.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:08 pm

Had you asked about this visa before applying, the links below would have been provided so you can see how incredibly difficult this visa is to get and to what extent you have to prove things. None of your posts since 2013 state which country you are from, but if you are from the sub continent, care is cheap there compared to say the USA and these are the things HO look at as the second link below explains.

immigration-for-family-members/older-de ... 0-300.html

immigration-for-family-members/adult-de ... 87771.html

I hope you realise that by being refused for this visa, the door to getting a visitor visa will also be shut now due to your mother stating her intention to settle in the UK.

Thanks for your reply CR001
To further clarify, I have proved the following in my application and this has been acknowledged by the ECO:
(a) My parent need assistance with essential daily activities, such as bathing, washing, etc AND that such assistance is either not available or not affordable in my home country.
(b) I have explained that issue is not at all with the financial part it is the emotional part that is the main challenge. My mother suffers dementia and we cannot rely on a house maid for several reasons that were explained in the letter
The problem here is that ECO acknowledges that need of personal care that can only be offered by a close family relative which is only me at this time
But the same time, I have lived a successful in the UK and therefore don’t want to be a job less man outside the UK who will end up spending all his savings and one day going back to UK claiming any benefits.
Considering ECO acknowledges requirement of personal care and I as the only person to provide that gives me a strong case to make an appeal?

Many Thanks,
Bava

Son_of_Tarar wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:26 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:08 pm

Had you asked about this visa before applying, the links below would have been provided so you can see how incredibly difficult this visa is to get and to what extent you have to prove things. None of your posts since 2013 state which country you are from, but if you are from the sub continent, care is cheap there compared to say the USA and these are the things HO look at as the second link below explains.

immigration-for-family-members/older-de ... 0-300.html

immigration-for-family-members/adult-de ... 87771.html

I hope you realise that by being refused for this visa, the door to getting a visitor visa will also be shut now due to your mother stating her intention to settle in the UK.

Thanks for your reply CR001
To further clarify, I have proved the following in my application and this has been acknowledged by the ECO:
(a) My parent need assistance with essential daily activities, such as bathing, washing, etc AND that such assistance is either not available or not affordable in my home country.
(b) I have explained that issue is not at all with the financial part it is the emotional part that is the main challenge. My mother suffers dementia and we cannot rely on a house maid for several reasons that were explained in the letter
The problem here is that ECO acknowledges that need of personal care that can only be offered by a close family relative which is only me at this time
But the same time, I have lived a successful in the UK and therefore don’t want to be a job less man outside the UK who will end up spending all his savings and one day going back to UK claiming any benefits.
Considering ECO acknowledges requirement of personal care and I as the only person to provide that gives me a strong case to make an appeal?

Many Thanks,
Bava

You can try but the only cases I can recall where these applications have been successful are in cases where healthcare and care in general is very expensive in the home country, ie USA.

Mantra will be you can pay for it back home as it's cheap.

However some have done it, label very few, and I can't recall anyone who has sticking around here, people tend to get what they want and disappear. I suspect the big fears are the cost if the sponsor can't pay anymore (that's happened), and setting a precedent like has already happened with the EU SS route, which is an option for you. Google EU Surinder Singh and see if it fits...

Hi,

Sorry to hear about this rejection and I can feel what you are going through as I has been through this. I was in India for 3.5 years caring for my mother and yesterday I landed in UK with my mother after my appeal was allowed.

If the reason mentioned by you are the only reasons mentioned in the rejection letter then you have very strong chance of winning the the appeal.

But if they have challenged with not enough docs to prove care is available then it will be difficult.

Major problem with the appeal is that it will take attest 2 years. If you can sustain for 2-3 years in your home country till the appeal process is completed then very strong chance of winning as you have proved it by caring for you mother that it is not available without your presence.

Best of luck for this hard journey.

Wanderer wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:38 pm

Son_of_Tarar wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:26 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:08 pm

Had you asked about this visa before applying, the links below would have been provided so you can see how incredibly difficult this visa is to get and to what extent you have to prove things. None of your posts since 2013 state which country you are from, but if you are from the sub continent, care is cheap there compared to say the USA and these are the things HO look at as the second link below explains.

immigration-for-family-members/older-de ... 0-300.html

immigration-for-family-members/adult-de ... 87771.html

I hope you realise that by being refused for this visa, the door to getting a visitor visa will also be shut now due to your mother stating her intention to settle in the UK.

Thanks for your reply CR001
To further clarify, I have proved the following in my application and this has been acknowledged by the ECO:
(a) My parent need assistance with essential daily activities, such as bathing, washing, etc AND that such assistance is either not available or not affordable in my home country.
(b) I have explained that issue is not at all with the financial part it is the emotional part that is the main challenge. My mother suffers dementia and we cannot rely on a house maid for several reasons that were explained in the letter
The problem here is that ECO acknowledges that need of personal care that can only be offered by a close family relative which is only me at this time
But the same time, I have lived a successful in the UK and therefore don’t want to be a job less man outside the UK who will end up spending all his savings and one day going back to UK claiming any benefits.
Considering ECO acknowledges requirement of personal care and I as the only person to provide that gives me a strong case to make an appeal?

Many Thanks,
Bava

You can try but the only cases I can recall where these applications have been successful are in cases where healthcare and care in general is very expensive in the home country, ie USA.

Mantra will be you can pay for it back home as it's cheap.

However some have done it, label very few, and I can't recall anyone who has sticking around here, people tend to get what they want and disappear. I suspect the big fears are the cost if the sponsor can't pay any more (that's happened), and setting a precedent like has already happened with the EU SS route, which is an option for you. Google EU Surinder Singh and see if it fits...

1. In my mother’s case the issue is not at all with the finances, as it is an emotional requirement and other personal needs for which I and my wife are best suited. For this reason, we will not be a burden on the UK resources. ECO has acknowledged that she needs personal care and I am her only relative who can provide that …
2. I have shown my continuous employment record as well sufficient savings to prove that I have never been a burden on the system and can support myself and her without any hope of financial help from the UK government

3. Re Surinder singh, I was only avoiding it because even until to date, I am paying membership and other fees in the UK -0 In fact, I am still paying part of the rent in the UK hoping to be back soon.

Can i write a pre action protocal letter before I submit the appeal or the only option is to go in an appeal ?

Thank you very much for your help

Bava

I think there may be a better prospect in.appeal. A pre action protocol is unnecessary when you have appeal.

Obie wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:23 pm

I think there may be a better prospect in.appeal. A pre-action protocol is unnecessary when you have appeal.

Thank you obie, Is there anything that I can do in parallel to appeal submission? I mean contacting UK home office explaining that I am getting depressed here and need to be back?

Below is the text from refusal letter:

"You state that you require long-term personal care to perform everyday tasks because you suffer from dementia. You state that you need the care and support of your family in Country Y, and it is not available in Country Y. I note that your son, XXX has relocated to Country Y since December 2016 to look after you with his wife and that he provides financial support too. He wishes to return to the UK and other family members in Country Y are not available for help. You state however that you have been treated for Hep-C and are on a recovery medication for it in Country Y. There is also medical evidence of medical treatment received at XYZ hospital and the letter from Dr. ABC stating that you have been under her care in 2017. I am not therefore satisfied that you are unable to obtain the required level of care in Country Y. I, therefore, refuse your application under paragraph EC-DR1.1 (d) of Appendix FM of the immigration rules (E-ECDR 2.5) "

They have not raised any objections neither said any lack of evidence....
They have even acknowledged that I the sponsor would like to return to the UK, yet they refused

I feel this is just hilarious - can this not be challenged even without an appeal?

ECDR 2.5 is most difficult to prove as you are trying to prove a negative appeal.

What doc you submit that care is not available in your home country?

Appeal process will at least take 2 years there is no other currently.

If you don't have any children then you can think about Surinder Singh routes. Reallocation with children is very difficult.

Thanks son7777,

It seems like I am still not being able to explain my point. The problem is not that the medical support is not available in my home country.

I have proved through medical records that my mother needs personal care, something that can only be offered by a close relative. It has got nothing to do with the medical facilities available or the finances.
I also proved that due to personal situations that recently changed, none of my other family members is there to help either, and this is why I am not going back to the UK. I even had to leave my job in the UK for that.

I have provided them letters from my employer where initially they allowed me to work from back home to support my mother.

So the problem is that I am the ONLY one who can offer the REQUIRED personal support.ALso, I NEED to be back to the UK as I am unable to find a job at back home and don't see my career here. They have acknowledged all in this in their refusal letter.
BUT STILL, THEY Refuse - They are like yes we do accept but then say no we don't!

I dont think they have anywhere said that I have not been able to provide evidence to any of my statement

Kindly let me know if I am unable to understand a technical point in the above statement

Point 2.5 says that proof should be from some local government authority or some other independent source.

Visa Officer is wrong is saying that present situation can continue (you providing care for your mom in home country) as you are doing this because no-one else is there in your home country to do this.

You have strong case and good chance of winning the appeal as there is no strong point against your docs in refusal letter.

The only problem I see here is appeal takes long time around 2 years. If you can stay in your home country till the appeal hearing then you will definitely get a favorable decision. But it is very difficult.

In my case we have similar situation and I have stayed in home country for 3.5 year caring for my mom and our appeal was allowed as home office didn't have any strong point against us.

Many thanks for your reply “son7777”

Exactly, the visa officer is wrong in saying that the same situation can continue – This is what I wanted to explain.

I did provide following evidence
- Medical reports
- Letters from the doctors confirming her personal situation
- Affidavit from my family members about her medical situation
- Letter from my UK employer where they made exceptions allowing me to work from home from my home country to support my mother

I explained to the ECO that I am transferring money from the UK to support myself. Since I am getting depressed and feeling very uncomfortable in my home country, Is there not a possibility to reach out to a UK institute to seek help to speed things up.

Cheers,

Bava

Unfortunately there is no quick fix.

Your need to appeal first with strong appeal points. Entry Clearance Manager with review your docs. If he is convinced with you docs appeal point then he take appeal back and issue you visa. This takes around 4-5 months and most ECM maintains the decision in ECM review for ADR application.

Once your know that ECM is maintaining the decision and then you can apply for urgent treatment of appeal if you have any exceptional circumstances.

But again no quick fix. What is you country of application ? From Pakistan and India appeal takes more time because of high number of applications.

Better use some good Solicitor for appeal.

Is there any particular reason why you seem to be hesitant in naming the country?

What about staying with your mother to support and care for her and finding a job there as well?

i.need.help wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:43 am

Is there any particular reason why you seem to be hesitant in naming the country?

What about staying with your mother to support and care for her and finding a job there as well?

OP is not obliged to name the country, nor is it relevant to any advise one may wish to offer.

son7777 wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:34 pm

Unfortunately there is no quick fix.

Your need to appeal first with strong appeal points. Entry Clearance Manager with review your docs. If he is convinced with you docs appeal point then he take appeal back and issue you visa. This takes around 4-5 months and most ECM maintains the decision in ECM review for ADR application.

Once your know that ECM is maintaining the decision and then you can apply for urgent treatment of appeal if you have any exceptional circumstances.

But again no quick fix. What is you country of application ? From Pakistan and India appeal takes more time because of high number of applications.

Better use some good Solicitor for appeal.

Hi SON7777,

Much appreciate your detailed response.

I am unable to stay with my mother for the following reasons
- unbale to find a job that matches my skills and epxereinces
- feel un safe and there are other issues around health care and etc for myself
- Most importantly, I choose UK to be my home and therefore it makes no sense that I leave the country where I have planned teh future and for whcih UK gave me citizenship

Re the appeal procedure, what I understnad from is that the appeal forms first go to ECM and if they are convinced they can cancel the refusal. Can I add my medical letters explaining how stressed i am in the country
and, I have other family reasons for which

Can UK home office not take my case as an exception and give my case a priority?

Regading the good solictor, do you think it makes a difference that if teh appeal has been lodged by a solictor or barrister?
I am not sure about the policies of this forum regarding the referrals but if it permits, can you please name good barrister in west midlands area?

Thank you ,

Bava

In our case appeal was prepared by a solicitor and his firm appointed a barrister for appeal hearing.

I am not aware of anyway they can priories your appeal.

Forum does not allow to put Solicitors name and My Solicitor was in London.

Moderators on this forum are very knowledgeable (Even better then Solicitors) and they provide straight forward advice.

Just don't believe your solicitor blindly and discuss on forum if something don't make sense to you.

Best of luck.

son7777 wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:45 am

In our case appeal was prepared by a solicitor and his firm appointed a barrister for appeal hearing.

I am not aware of anyway they can priories your appeal.

Forum does not allow to put Solicitors name and My Solicitor was in London.

Moderators on this forum are very knowledgeable (Even better then Solicitors) and they provide straight forward advice.

Just don't believe your solicitor blindly and discuss on forum if something don't make sense to you.

Best of luck.

Sincerely appreciate your advice.

But do you think it makes a difference if I make an appeal by myself and if it goes through a solicitor?
I mean do UKVI gives more weight or gets more careful if the appeal has come through a solicitor?

Finally, What if i have a PHD (or Job) offer from the UK and I am unable to return due to my mother. Or, what if I have security issues or developed medical condition due to stress - Can I then reach out to some UK body and seek help?

Hi,
It does not make any difference if you do appeal yourself or through some solicitor.

Only thing is that Solicitors are professionals and they have experience in this.

After appealing you can email to them for urgent hearing with you reason and proofs. Then court can decide if they are exceptional circumstances or not

Hello again,

Over the last few weeks, I have been talking to the solicitors and unfortunately, I am very disappointed with the service that I have received. They charge huge amounts for the initial assessment but do not go through all of the documentation provided.

In summary, I have been advise to add following to the appeal

- Letter from the doctor that further emphasise that why personal care from a close member of the family is required
- Letter from the doctor that confirms that I have developed bad health by staying outside the UK - due to stress, no job and spending money
- Medical reports from the doctor that show that my wife needs medical treatment. She is on a UK spouse visa and entitled to the UK NHS but we are unable to go because of the current situation at home. She must travel to the UK by November or there can be health issues.

I have also spoken to the local MP and after reviewing my case they are happy to raise it with UKVI and request them to review the case on compassionate grounds/exceptional circumstances

I now have following more question

1. I will be posting appeal letter, forms, sponsor letter (old submission copy) and the new evidences. The sponsor letter refers to the evidences that were provided with the original application. Do I need to send them again or is it okay to refer to them assuming the record is available to the UKVI already. PS documents were posted to the UK address and I have not received them yet being outside the country

2. Bringing in my wife and my health issue, I am doing a mistake and if not, is it alright to make the statement that if I suffer through major illness or injury due to the conditions in Country Y, I will hold UKVI and Home office will be responsible for that

Now, if MP gets involved and I evidence that there are serious issues related to my health and security by staying outside the UK, are there chances that ECM will be able to review the decision within a week or so?


finally, Is there a specific format in which I must write the appeal letter explaining all the points.

Many Thanks,

BAVA

2. Bringing in my wife and my health issue, I am doing a mistake and if not, is it alright to make the statement that if I suffer through major illness or injury due to the conditions in Country Y, I will hold UKVI and Home office will be responsible for that

Presumably you are a citizen of Country Y as it apparently allows dual nationality, so not sure how it could be HO's responsibility if you have health issues as you are able to return to the UK.

Yes, I am a Dual National and the reason for me to not being able to come back to the UK is that I do not have alternate arrangements for my mothers look after in my home country - This was the core reason for the application and grounds of appeal as ECO missed to understand this point