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Applying for a BC but have numerous PCNs

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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zubarator
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Applying for a BC but have numerous PCNs

Post by zubarator » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:52 am

Dear members, please advise on my chances of getting approved for a BC in this situation.

Basically, I took out a finance car under my name for my brother( a big mistake on my part) who could not do it himself because of his poor credit history. So I am the registered keeper of the car but my brother is the main driver and the one insured to drive it. He is not the most careful driver in terms of parking properly and over the last 2 years he has managed to get not less than 20 PCNs, mostly on the windscreen which he usually pays straight away without notifying me as I always tell him off about it. Some of the PCNs arrive to my address( as I am the registered keeper) and I pass them on to him to pay.

Now, everything was alright up till now- he was out of pocket for parking like an idiot, I was mildly pissed off with him but forgiving, older brother- but now I am in the middle of applying for a British Citizenship and it has just dawned on me that this situation may backfire and mess up my otherwise Good Character.

Should I just relay this situation to the Home Office without going into details about dates and circumstances of each PCN in question? Unfortunately, I would not be able to provide the detailed information on these PCNs as I did not record or store them( my brother dealt with them himself). Or is there a way to acquire the record of all PCNs against my name so I could list them each separately and explain who is at fault etc? Also there were 2 FPNs which I sent off with my brother's name as a driver and he admitted his guilt and received a fine and points for them. Should I mention that as well?

I have also 2 PCNs on the car that I own and drive myself but I can supply the HO with dates and details about them, so this should not be a problem.

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts from any experienced members on how should I go about my dilemma.
Apologies for a long message,
Thanks in advance for any advice

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zimba
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Re: Applying for a BC but have numerous PCNs

Post by zimba » Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:32 am

PCNs issued by local councils and generally stuck to the windshield are not even issued under your name but have only your car reg number :!:
They do not obtain your details like name and address unless the PCN remains unpaid. There is no record that you personally have been issued a PCN most of the times if you paid them without going to court. There are no records of them on police computers either (unlike recordable offences, civil penalties or FPNs) You are also not expected to declare PCNs as part of your application. So chill out
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

zubarator
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Re: Applying for a BC but have numerous PCNs

Post by zubarator » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:25 pm

Zimba wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:32 am
PCNs issued by local councils and generally stuck to the windshield are not even issued under your name but have only your car reg number :!:
They do not obtain your details like name and address unless the PCN remains unpaid. There is no record that you personally have been issued a PCN most of the times if you paid them without going to court. There are no records of them on police computers either (unlike recordable offences, civil penalties or FPNs) You are also not expected to declare PCNs as part of your application. So chill out
Hey Zimba, thanks for the reply.

On the Citizenship form it says:
Fixed Penalty Notices (such as speeding or parking tickets) do not form part of a person’s
criminal record and will not be considered in the caseworker’s assessment of character unless:
• the person has failed to pay and there were criminal proceedings as a result; or
• the person has received numerous fixed penalty notices.

As I mentioned earlier there were dozens PCNs, most of which were paid straight away, but some( maybe 6 or 7) were sent to me as a Notice to Owner or even a Charge Certificate so contained my name and address as the registered keeper. As they weren't FPNs for driving offences but for parking offences I could not provide drivers information for them and although my brother paid for them they still were under my name.

On the FAQ it was mentioned that "There is no specific requirement to declare a PCN". BUT, "(PCN/PND) may be considered as a FPN for the purpose of ‘Good Character’", and if "PCNs/PNDs are numerous" (there are a lot) it might count. Which is why I was asking if I should declare it? I could of course leave it out but won't the HO see it as deception on my part? I have no intention to lie and want to mention everything that is relevant but in this case I do not know what is relevant and what not so I am very worried about the outcome.

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zimba
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Re: Applying for a BC but have numerous PCNs

Post by zimba » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:57 pm

A parking ticket can be issued as a PCN or an FPN depending on the circumstances. PCNs are treated as civil issues which are decriminalised (like parking without paying ) while FPNs are enforceable via criminal justice system (like speeding). So they are treated differently :!:

FPNs may be recorded on the police database and also there is clear evidence of them being issued under your name but PCNs are not recorded at all (unless issued under your name). As I said, PCNs are mostly not issued under your name and generally there is really no evidence that you have been issued many of them as they are dealt with by local councils (like parking tickets from councils).
If paid, they effectively disappear.
FPNs on the other hand are issued for generally more serious offences, recorded and therefore affect your application
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

zubarator
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Re: Applying for a BC but have numerous PCNs

Post by zubarator » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:35 pm

Zimba wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:57 pm
A parking ticket can be issued as a PCN or an FPN depending on the circumstances. PCNs are treated as civil issues which are decriminalised (like parking without paying ) while FPNs are enforceable via criminal justice system (like speeding). So they are treated differently :!:

FPNs may be recorded on the police database and also there is clear evidence of them being issued under your name but PCNs are not recorded at all (unless issued under your name). As I said, PCNs are mostly not issued under your name and generally there is really no evidence that you have been issued many of them as they are dealt with by local councils (like parking tickets from councils).
If paid, they effectively disappear.
FPNs on the other hand are issued for generally more serious offences, recorded and therefore affect your application
Thank you for your response,

A few more questions if I may. So you think there is no point in disclosing these PCNs and circumstances around them? What if they trace the PCNs with my name on it( Notices to Owner and Charge Certificates) back to me? isn't there the risk of being rejected for deception in this case? What if I just briefly explain the situation to the HO, is it not better? I am just weighing up the best course of action at the moment. I don't want to miss out on the BC because of this. thanks

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zimba
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Re: Applying for a BC but have numerous PCNs

Post by zimba » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:40 am

As I said PCNs are NOT required to be declared so there is no deception. It is up to you to declare whatever you want
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

bluebird12
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Re: Applying for a BC but have numerous PCNs

Post by bluebird12 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:58 am

Because you have lots of PCN it is safe to declare them otherwise it might count deception and 10 years ban.

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equitydealer
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Re: Applying for a BC but have numerous PCNs

Post by equitydealer » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:40 am

bluebird12 wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:58 am
Because you have lots of PCN it is safe to declare them otherwise it might count deception and 10 years ban.
PCNs issued by local councils are not required to be disclosed as has been mentioned by Zimba. Tickets are issued against the vehicle and not an individual. When a PCN is received by the registered keeper, he/she is not asked to declare who committed the parking offence so how can an offence be assigned to anyone? An FPN on the other hand is normally issued for a criminal offence, so for a parking FPN that could be issued by a police officer for abandoning your car in a live running motorway lane as an example.
My comments do not constitute immigration advice, if in doubt consult an immigration adviser/solicitor

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