STUDENT LOAN

Hi People, sorry if I am posting on the wrong topic. Hope someone in my situation can help me

I am a non-EU citizen and living in the UK for more than 3 years. I have got a spouse visa (Leave to remain-expires 09/2021) and my husband is a British citizen.

I would like to apply for a Dental Hygiene course next year. I was wondering whether I am eligible to apply for a student loan or not? As I am a member of an EU family I could be classified under EU funding for tuition fee loan?

Thank you in advance!

turkishh wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:10 am

As I am a member of an EU family I could be classified under EU funding for tuition fee loan?

You are none EU national holding UK spouse visa because your husband is British national then how can you be partner of EU national. Read about student finance:

https://www.ucas.com/sfe

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide. ... t-finance/

https://www.gov.uk/student-finance

If you are in the UK with a UK husband who never lived with you in the EU and who doesn't hold any other EU country citizenship (we don't count the UK one), then EU laws don't apply to you. As far as your immigration status is concerned, use only UK routes and laws.

turkishh wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:10 am

I am a non-EU citizen and living in the UK for more than 3 years. I have got a spouse visa (Leave to remain-expires 09/2021) and my husband is a British citizen.

I would like to apply for a Dental Hygiene course next year. I was wondering whether I am eligible to apply for a student loan or not? As I am a member of an EU family I could be classified under EU funding for tuition fee loan?

Both the previous answers are wrong, and a good example of why it is not wise to seek advice from random unqualified strangers online.

The regulations the govern who is eligible for home fees and student support for higher education in the UK are UK law, not EU law. The category of eligibility "EU Nationals and family" includes your situation being the family member of a British citizen. You would be a home fee payer, not overseas, and you would be eligible for a tuition fee loan but not a maintenance loan for living costs.

Strongly advise using UKCISA's guide to home fees and student support at www.ukcisa.org.uk

I was responding to a gentlemen from USA who wanted to come to the UK with his British partner using EEA route and I was telling him he doesn't qualify. I see that I posted under the wrong topic. I do apologize for that. I have limited experience with student loans so most of the time, I avoid such topics.

However, I wouldn't qualify the people in this forum as "random unqualified strangers online". I found better information in this forum than I got from London based and expensive immigration solicitors. The immigration system in the UK is so complex, that even Home Office caseworkers are often caught ignoring or misinterpreting the law. I don't blame them, it's just too complex.

People come here to crowd source their immigration concerns. After each post in a thread, we get a better idea of their issue and answers start flowing and bringing more and more useful information. I think there are enough disclaimers here that nobody would jump on a single opinion and considers it definitive.

Fair enough, although this isn't an immigration question, it's about a whole other area of law.

From my point of view as an immigration adviser, I can't tell you how much time I spend unpicking and disagreeing with terrible and potentially damaging immigration advice that people have crowdsourced online, usually here or on Quora, with no citations of rules, guidance or case law to back it up.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:17 am

Fair enough, although this isn't an immigration question, it's about a whole other area of law.

From my point of view as an immigration adviser, I can't tell you how much time I spend unpicking and disagreeing with terrible and potentially damaging immigration advice that people have crowdsourced online, usually here or on Quora, with no citations of rules, guidance or case law to back it up.

I couldn't agree more. That why for direct and specific questions, even when I think I know, I try always to provide the relevant documents and screenshots. But to be fair, I have seen many damaging advice provided by solicitors or immigration advisers.

For my family, I check here, I go also to a solicitor I know and trust and finally I check myself all the documentation before I proceed. I am touching wood, I never had a refusal even in seemingly complex cases. The only refusal I had was a visitor visa I sponsored.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:08 am

a good example of why it is not wise to seek advice from random unqualified strangers online.

The idea and the ethos of a public forum is for strangers to advise and contribute towards helping each other.

If there were one standard answer that one could give for a given solution, there would be a standard website (which does already exist: https://gov.uk). But people's circumstances vary and those of us who have been through the journey and those who are on the same journey try to help out people whose circumstances do not match the standard.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:17 am

From my point of view as an immigration adviser, I can't tell you how much time I spend unpicking and disagreeing with terrible and potentially damaging immigration advice that people have crowdsourced online, usually here or on Quora, with no citations of rules, guidance or case law to back it up.

The affection is mutual. We have instances on these forums where immigration advisors and solicitors has advised incorrectly, by not taking certain nuances of the person's circumstances into account.

I share your aversion to lack of citation and try to cite or link to the appropriate documentation in my responses if possible. But quite often, in most responses, the point in dispute is either well-known or in the main sticky threads (such as the five year requirements for naturalisation) or a matter of interpretation of known words. At that point, one need not cite or link to documenation.

Furthermore, people are also writing from personal experience, which cannot be directly cited or linked to.

None of us are infallible. If you are more knowledgable on immigration matters, I would highly encourarge you to correct the advice that is already published and increase the knowledge pool of these forums

However if you disagree with the ethos of a forum or look upon with disdain on people with lesser knowledge trying to help each other out on such forums, there is no obligation on you to visit, much less contribute to these forums.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:13 am

However if you disagree with the ethos of a forum or look upon with disdain on people with lesser knowledge trying to help each other out on such forums, there is no obligation on you to visit, much less contribute to these forums.

Neither. My comments were prompted specifically by the two replies above that both confidently but wrongly told OP that they are not eligible for a student loan. Neither referred OP to any regulations or eligibility guidance to explain their conclusion, and they seemed to be conflating EU immigration law with the UK fees and awards regulations.

Anyone's thoughts or comments here bring value to the forum, especially their personal experience, but there is also a lot of Dunning-Kruger Effect going on!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E ... ger_effect

In my experience usually two type of persons over react most often:

1. One whose immigration journey is over

2. One who when gets free but correct advice.

Not sure which one applies here.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Fri Oct 25, 2019 8:08 am

turkishh wrote: ↑

Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:10 am

I am a non-EU citizen and living in the UK for more than 3 years. I have got a spouse visa (Leave to remain-expires 09/2021) and my husband is a British citizen.

I would like to apply for a Dental Hygiene course next year. I was wondering whether I am eligible to apply for a student loan or not? As I am a member of an EU family I could be classified under EU funding for tuition fee loan?

Both the previous answers are wrong, and a good example of why it is not wise to seek advice from random unqualified strangers online.

The regulations the govern who is eligible for home fees and student support for higher education in the UK are UK law, not EU law. The category of eligibility "EU Nationals and family" includes your situation being the family member of a British citizen. You would be a home fee payer, not overseas, and you would be eligible for a tuition fee loan but not a maintenance loan for living costs.

Strongly advise using UKCISA's guide to home fees and student support at www.ukcisa.org.uk

The irony of the situation is that it is your post that is actually inaccurate and misleading.

UK national spouse cannot be classified as "EU national and Family Member" unless the British national had exercised treaty rights in another Member State with the Non EU spouse.

Therefore I am in agreement with the 2 contributors that you disagreed with.

Obie wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:03 pm

UK national spouse cannot be classified as "EU national and Family Member" unless the British national had exercised treaty rights in another Member State with the Non EU spouse.

Therefore I am in agreement with the 2 contributors that you disagreed with.

With respect, you are wrong. You are perhaps thinking this is an immigration matter, conflating EU free movement law (including the Surinder Sigh route for UK nationals) with unrelated UK domestic law about who is eligible for home fees and student support.

To be eligibility for home fees and student support under the "EU Nationals and Family" category of the (UK, not EU) Fees and Awards Regulations, an EU national does need to be exercising a right of residence, but a UK national just needs to be a UK national, not a UK national who is exercising a right of residence via Surinder Singh.

The best and most readable summary of the eligibility, aimed at students and their families, is by UKCISA. See category 3: EU Nationals and family:
https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... layer-6082

I think you got yourself into a muddle.

The 2017 fee limit regulations is linked to The Education (Student Support) Regulation 2011.

That regulations define who EEA National's are, they do no include UK national, as the regulations clearly states.

I am afraid that neither the 2007 Regulations which deals with postgraduate or the 2007 fee limit regulations which addresses undergraduate, assist your argument.

UK national's are not EEA nationals for the purpose of that provision.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011 ... ule/1/made

1) you are the relevant family member of a:
non-UK EU national, and that non-UK EU national is in the UK as a self sufficient person, student, or worker; or
UK national, and that UK national has exercised a right of residence in another EU member state for more than three months as a self-sufficient person, student, worker, or a family member accompanying one of these types of people ;
and

Even the category 3 you cited, appears to go against your argument.

Obie wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:45 pm

1) you are the relevant family member of a:
non-UK EU national, and that non-UK EU national is in the UK as a self sufficient person, student, or worker; or
UK national, and that UK national has exercised a right of residence in another EU member state for more than three months as a self-sufficient person, student, worker, or a family member accompanying one of these types of people ;
and

Even the category 3 you cited, appears to go against your argument.

That's something else. The basic eligibility is

on the first day of an academic year of your course, you must be:

* an EU national; or
* the relevant family member of a non-UK EU national, and that non-UK EU national is in the UK as a self sufficient person, student, or worker; or
* the relevant family member of a UK national;

plus you must have been resident in the EEA for 3 years not wholly or mainly for full-time education.

What you have quoted is part of an additional Special Provision or rescue for people who fail that 3-year residence requirement, but who have a relevant family member that meets it. For eligibility under the Special Provision, a UK national indeed must have exercised a RoR in another member state.

I understand what you are saying. But the 2011 regulation makes clear that the reference is to British citizen with enforceable EU law rights.

Relevant family member of a British citizen has a specific meaning, which I have cited from the documents you provided me. That is in black and white.

Everyone who applies for student loan or support needs to meet the 3 years lawful residence in the EU. That is the law British, EU or nine national have to demonstrate residence for a period of 3 years.

Obie wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:38 pm

I understand what you are saying. But the 2011 regulation makes clear that the reference is to British citizen with enforceable EU law rights.

Relevant family member of a British citizen has a specific meaning, which I have cited from the documents you provided me. That is in black and white.

I disagree on both counts, but let's move on.

Addressing applicants: it will be clear to any fees or student support assessor that eligibility for home fees and student support in the "EU Nationals and family" category for a UK national or their family member does not derive from exercising EU treaty rights. It derives from just being a UK national or their family member in itself. A UK national family member is not even required to be in the UK at all. The UKCISA guidance explains all this, and they have a daily advice line where students can discuss their eligibility.

Separately, and for home fees only, not for student support, the Special Provision can rescue some people who don't have the required 3 years residence but who do have an EU/UK national family member who meets it. If that person is a UK national, they must have also exercised a right of residence elsewhere in the EU.

Obie wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:38 pm

Everyone who applies for student loan or support needs to meet the 3 years lawful residence in the EU. That is the law British, EU or nine national have to demonstrate residence for a period of 3 years.

Just for accuracy and pedantry, the residence area for this category is not just the EU, it's the whole EEA plus the overseas territories. The regulations have already been amended to separately include the UK in the residence area in anticipation of the UK leaving the EU.

I fully respect you right to get the legislative provision wrong. What I do not accept is you insulting and demeaning individuals who make productive contributions.

Obie wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:48 pm

What I do not accept is you insulting and demeaning individuals who make productive contributions.

Me? I don't recognise this as something I would ever do, either online or offline. We should all be reporting any member who behaves in such a way.

sah10406 wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:32 pm

Obie wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:48 pm

What I do not accept is you insulting and demeaning individuals who make productive contributions.

Me? I don't recognise this as something I would ever do, either online or offline. We should all be reporting any member who behaves in such a way.

You may have done it inadvertently, but you clearly did.

Talking about the random, unqualified strangers online, is not uplifting though, is it? You know nothing about anyone to term them unqualified.

These are individuals who have provided very helpful advise over a long period of time.

In any event, for the reasons I have given, I believe their advise was sound.

Obie wrote: ↑

Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:37 pm

You may have done it inadvertently, but you clearly did.

Talking about the random, unqualified strangers online, is not uplifting though, is it? You know nothing about anyone to term them unqualified.

These are individuals who have provided very helpful advise over a long period of time.

In any event, for the reasons I have given, I believe their advise was sound.

We need to agree to disagree.

sah10406 can you advise pls? I am in the same situation as the person who originally posted and desperate for an answer. I have been in the UK for 7 years now, both my husband and my son are British citizens, but Im still not eligible for ILR for reasons that are too extensive to write here. Im still on a partner visa with NRPF. I get so many conflicting information online and cannot understand why family members of EU countries would be able to get student finance in the UK but not UK family members; that makes absolutely no sense to me. I tried to read all the legislation and endless amendments but found it really hard. UKCISA never includes specific info for FAMILY MEMBERS OF UK NATIONALS, it's always EEA OR EU. It's all so confusing. Hope you see this. Desperate lady over here, as I spent over 1500 pounds on access to HE diploma only to find out it might all be for nothing.

Mairaandradde wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:51 pm

I get so many conflicting information online and cannot understand why family members of EU countries would be able to get student finance in the UK but not UK family members; that makes absolutely no sense to me.

It makes no sense because it is not true. For example In England you would not be eligible for a loan for living costs but you would be eligible for a Tuition Fee Loan under the category "EU Nationals and Family":
https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... layer-6193

A British citizen is an EU national, and despite what you will read in this topic the category makes specific provision for family members of all British citizens, not just those whose family member is exercising a right of residence.

Mairaandradde wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 1:51 pm

UKCISA never includes specific info for FAMILY MEMBERS OF UK NATIONALS, it's always EEA OR EU.

They do. See above. I advise that you get advice from the student welfare adviser at your chosen university or that you contact UKCISA direct.