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British overseas citizen no right to work

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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Pan1974
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British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:27 pm

Much needed advice required...

My husband was born on a British military base in Cyprus in 1974 just as the war broke out. His mother has British overseas citizenship which was passed on to him. They came to the UK a year later and have been here ever since.
He grew up in London, went to school, was registered with a GP, got his national insurance number just before he turned 16, has a British passport and basically had a normal British upbringing. We married 21 years ago and have 4 children. I am a British citizen.
He studied the knowledge of London and has been a black taxi driver since 2007 and has never has any issues renewing his licence until now. Apparently he doesn’t have the right to work in the UK as he isn’t a British citizen. But he isn’t a citizen of anywhere and so is effectively stateless.

There are two observations on his passport.
1. The holder is entitled to re-admission to the United Kingdom.
2. The holder is not entitled to benefit from EU provisions relating to employment or establishment. (This was added recently when passport was renewed)

We have contacted the passport office who advises us to contact the home office. They were not at all helpful and told us to look at the gov.uk website for information.

From what we can see there it appears that he should either apply for indefinite leave to remain (despite living here for 45 years with no such issues before or this even being mentioned) or apply for British citizenship (which would take far too long as he would lose his cab licence before this was granted)
Is there any other way he can prove or aquire a right to work and live without these lengthy and costly procedures?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for reading

Pan1974
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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:03 pm

......and one more thing, can he apply for British citizenship without having official leave to remain?

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by zimba » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:59 am

Unless he registers as a British citizen or is granted ILR, he cannot work in the UK. British overseas citizen have no right to work in the UK.
An individual born before 1 January 1983 is entitled to register under paragraph 5 of schedule 2 of the British Nationality Act 1981 if they were born stateless and have remained stateless ever since as long as they satisfy certain conditions.
They are explained in this guide: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 2_0ext.pdf
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

Pan1974
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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:11 am

But he has a national insurance number and has paid tax since starting work almost 30 years ago? His immigration status has never been questioned before. He has an NHS number, has claimed benefits at one point.... is this a mistake?

I’ve looked on the gov website to apply for ILR but can’t find where he would need to apply. Where can we do this?

Thank you for your time and advice.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by zimba » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:37 pm

Pan1974 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:11 am
But he has a national insurance number and has paid tax since starting work almost 30 years ago? His immigration status has never been questioned before. He has an NHS number, has claimed benefits at one point.... is this a mistake?

I’ve looked on the gov website to apply for ILR but can’t find where he would need to apply. Where can we do this?

Thank you for your time and advice.
That is irrelevant. He never had the right to work in the UK but it seems that was not checked previously that is why he is facing the problem. Did you read the guide I sent ? He may be able to register as British citizen directly without ILR as a stateless person
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

Pan1974
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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 3:55 pm

Yes I did read through it, and will be looking into this route. However it appears he may have to prove that he is stateless, which I think should have been checked when he was given the overseas citizen status. The home office have been incompetent which is evident in my husbands case. How can he be issued a NI number and had his passports renewed without anything being questioned? His taxi licence has to go through the home office! But was still renewed every 3 years.

This may be irrelevant to everyone but us but it doesn’t make it ok to have allowed this situation to happen.
Regardless, we will do what is necessary and hope for a positive outcome.
Many thanks for your input and time.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by secret.simon » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:32 pm

Is your husband a British Overseas Citizen (BOC) or a British Overseas Territory Citizen (BOTC)? Were either one of his parents or grandparents born in the UK? Were either one of his grandparents born outside the island of Cyprus? Were either of his parents serving in the British military at the time of his birth? Were either parent "settled" (have indefinte leave to remain/enter) in the Sovereign Base Areas?
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:38 pm

Both his parents, grandparents were all born in Cyprus.
He was born on the British military base in Dhekelia because his mother was a refugee from famagusta and had fled her home after the invasion.
They were then placed in a military refugee camp and came to the UK after 1 year.
They returned to Cyprus after spending 1 year in the UK and stayed with family for 2 years before returning to the UK in 1978.
His father was a Cypriot citizen and mother a British overseas citizen but because of domestic violence she had to leave Cyprus.
They have stayed in Uk ever since.
My husband was given British overseas citizen status when he applied for his first adult passport.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by secret.simon » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:43 pm

Pan1974 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:38 pm
He was born on the British military base in Dhekelia
If he was born on the Sovereign Base Areas before 1983, then (if he has British nationality, which he may not have) he is likely a British Overseas Territory Citizen (BOTC), not a British Overseas Citizen(BOC). And there is a world of difference between the two. For a start, there is no route to registration as a British citizen via being stateless if you are a BOTC.

On what basis did the mother qualify for a BOC? If she and her parents were born in Cyprus before 1960, then she would have become a Cypriot citizen in that year. See the British Nationality (Cyprus) Order, 1960. If both parents were Cypriot, your husband may not have a legal claim to any form of British nationality.

Even if he does have a claim to BOC or BOTC, if his father was/is a Cypriot citizen, your husband very likely is one as well, even if has never had a Cypriot passport. Therefore he is not stateless for the purpose of applying for British citizenship by registration.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:59 pm

I think she got the BOC status when she became homeless as a result of the war. She has always had a British passport though as she and her siblings were brought up between both countries. They were constantly travelling backwards and forwards and she attended school in London. Her marriage was arranged which is why she was in Cyprus when the war broke out.
This marriage didn’t last long and my husband hasn’t seen his father since he was a very small child. There is no contact at all. He could be deceased for all we know.
How can we check if my husband actually has Cypriot nationality? Would that mean his BOC status doesn’t apply?
We have put in a request to the home office for all of his immigration details that they hold so may know more when that arrives.
It’s just all so confusing, especially when we are not given a clear account of what happened.
I think as a 19 year old going through what she did at that time she just did what she was advised or told what to do.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by secret.simon » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:09 am

Pan1974 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:59 pm
How can we check if my husband actually has Cypriot nationality?
You could present the facts to the Cypriot embassy in the UK and ask if your husband qualifies for a Cypriot passport.

Because Cyprus is a part of both the Commonwealth and the EU, Cypriot citizens have almost all the rights of British citizens (including both the ability to work in the UK and the ability to vote).

Your husband (and mother-in-law) may both qualify for Cypriot citizenship irrespective of their father/husband's status.
Pan1974 wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:59 pm
We have put in a request to the home office for all of his immigration details that they hold so may know more when that arrives.
If he arrived years ago, it is likely that the records were destroyed. Home Office records are only managed for a certain number of years before destruction under the Data Protection Act.

It still puzzles me why your husband was given BOC status and not BOTC status, which is what he should have got. Can I clarify if you have checked his passport for the coirrect status.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:22 am

I have her passport issued in 1973 which gives her nationality as British Subject: citizen of the United Kingdom and colonies.
It has the observation that she has the right of abode in the UK which is crossed out. No date so I’m assuming it was there when issued.
There is another observation underneath which says the holder is subject to control under the immigration act 1971 and this is also crossed out. No date here so unsure if it was added before or after my husbands birth.
Then a third statement says the holder is entitled to re-admission to the Uk. This is stamped and dated sept 1975.
This is also the statement on my husbands passport.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:24 am

Yes it definitely says British overseas citizen....

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by secret.simon » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:32 am

Did your husband live in the UK for five continuous years before 1983? If he did, can he prove it?
Pan1974 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:22 am
It has the observation that she has the right of abode in the UK which is crossed out. No date so I’m assuming it was there when issued.
There is another observation underneath which says the holder is subject to control under the immigration act 1971 and this is also crossed out. No date here so unsure if it was added before or after my husbands birth.
In today's terms, it means that she is a British Overseas Citizen (A CUKC without Right of Abode) with ILR (not subject to control under the Immigration Act 1971). As your husband was born outside the UK, and was born before 1983, the ILR status would not have impacted his status anyway.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:55 pm

Yes he’s lived here from 8 sept 1978 continuously until now....he did attend an infant school so could get those records.

We are going to visit the Cyprus high Commission to find out if he has Cypriot citizenship but I wondered where that left him in regards to his British overseas citizen passport. Would he be able to have both or would he have to give that up?

Sorry for all the questions, it’s just good to be able to get some advice from someone who knows about this.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:14 pm

He was on his mother’s passport during until the age of 16 which was in 1990. If we can prove his mother didn’t leave the uk during this time then is that evidence enough. He wouldn’t have had any other means of travelling outside the uk.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:57 pm

I wondered if anyone could answer this....

Husbands passport has this observation,

The holder is not entitled to benefit from EC provisions relating to employment or establishment.

When I research this observation there is a footnote saying,

If married to a BC who has established a right of residence in another member state, he/she has the right to reside and work in that state on the same conditions as the spouse.

Does this mean he has the right to work in the UK?
Does another member state just mean anywhere other than the UK, or does it include the UK?

TIA

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by secret.simon » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:01 pm

Pan1974 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:55 pm
it’s just good to be able to get some advice from someone who knows about this.
Just to clarify that I am not a lawyer, merely somebody who has read on the topic. For legal advice, please consult a legal professional (if you do, I would be grateful if you show him this thread and reproduce his feedback here).
Pan1974 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:57 pm
Husbands passport has this observation,

The holder is not entitled to benefit from EC provisions relating to employment or establishment.

When I research this observation there is a footnote saying,

If married to a BC who has established a right of residence in another member state, he/she has the right to reside and work in that state on the same conditions as the spouse.

Does this mean he has the right to work in the UK?
Does another member state just mean anywhere other than the UK, or does it include the UK?
No to the first question (Does this mean he has the right to work in the UK?).

"Does another member state just mean anywhere other than the UK, or does it include the UK?" means any EEA member-state other than the UK. It merely meant that he can accompany you to another EEA member-state if you moved there, which is standard EU law.
Pan1974 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:55 pm
he’s lived here from 8 sept 1978 continuously until now.
That shuts the avenue that I had in mind. If he had lived for five continuous years before 1st Jan 1983 (so at least before 1st Jan 1978), he could have argued that as a CUKC living in the UK for five continuous years before that date, he has already acquired Right of Abode and therefore is already a British citizen.

A possible tangent to this is that if his mother had lived in the UK as a CUKC for five continuous years before his birth, he may be able to register as a British citizen under Form UK(M).
Pan1974 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:55 pm
We are going to visit the Cyprus high Commission to find out if he has Cypriot citizenship but I wondered where that left him in regards to his British overseas citizen passport.
If the objective is to get him working asap, I would suggest looking at his Cypriot nationality on an urgent basis.

If you go down that route, you may also want to get a letter from the Cypriot authorities that his citizenship is from birth. Once he gets that letter and his Cypriot passport, he should be able to apply for either PR under EU law or Settled Status under UK law and then apply immediatly for naturalisation.

Conversely if the Cypriot authorities refuse his citizenship and provide you with documentation stating the same (ideally also stating that he has never had Cypriot citizenship), he can then register as a British citizen under Section 4B of the British Nationality Act 1981.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:13 pm

We have arranged to speak to an immigration expert tomorrow and yes I am happy to post what they advise on here.

We are just trying to get our heads around all the possible ways we can fix this and your input is much appreciated. You have explained things in a way that I can understand.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:23 pm

Just one more thing :?

After everything I’ve explained, do you think there would be any issues if he applied for ILR?

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by secret.simon » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:34 pm

Pan1974 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:23 pm
After everything I’ve explained, do you think there would be any issues if he applied for ILR?
There is no direct route for him to apply for ILR, except if
(a) he gets his Cypriot citizenship (with a clear statement that it is from birth) and then applies for Settled Status (which is technically ILR under Appendix EU of the UK Immigration Rules)
(b) he proves through his old passports that he has never been subject to immigration control (which is not not an application for ILR, but proof that he already has it). If this scenario is true, he should apply for an ILR BRP asap.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:46 pm

Would a statement clarifying Cypriot citizenship from birth from the Cyprus high commission be enough without a Cypriot passport? As obtaining a passport could take up to 3 months and we were going to apply for ILR through the priority service.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:48 pm

I’ve just re-read your last post and so I’m clear on this, applying for settled status is a different application to ILR? But means the same?

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by secret.simon » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:55 pm

Pan1974 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:46 pm
Would a statement clarifying Cypriot citizenship from birth from the Cyprus high commission be enough without a Cypriot passport?
Either a Cypriot passport or a national ID card would be a requirement for applying for PR or Settled Status.
Pan1974 wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:48 pm
applying for settled status is a different application to ILR?
There are many routes to ILR status. Your husband does not qualify for any of them except Settled Status, which only applies in case he is a Cypriot citizen.

If he is not a Cypriot citizen, there is no route for him to apply for ILR (unless as mentioned above, he already has it in his old passports, in which case it is not an application for ILR, just a confirmation).
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: British overseas citizen no right to work

Post by Pan1974 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:04 pm

Ok, thank you. You have been so helpful. I will update this post with our progress.

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