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First British passport application - early document return request

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

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VocaVuna
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First British passport application - early document return request

Post by VocaVuna » Sat May 09, 2020 11:59 pm

Hi all,
I appreciate your time reading my post, and special thanks to those who reply with knowledge or their own experiences. Also apologies if this was discussed before, I tried to find relevant information, but I do have a couple of questions, so thought it warrants a new post.

I have applied for my first British password after naturalisation in March.
I completed the process online, and sent my current passport (from another country) and naturalisation certificate to Liverpool passport office. They acknowledged receiving the docs on 27th March 2020.
When I login to the tracking page, it states that now my "application is being processed", as of 4th May.

Q1: I did not receive an email/SMS to say this on the 4th of May, like I did on 27th March to say they've received the docs. Is the email/SMS notification not part of the process for each change that occurs? Do I need to be checking the status every few days if they won't email/SMS any more?

Now the important question.
Q2: I know from reading the timelines post that from "being processed" to "begin approved" can be 2 weeks, 3 weeks, even 1.5 months. So that means I could wait for that a few more weeks.
I have an emergency developing back home (another country to be clear), and I might need to travel, within next 7-10 days. Can I request for my current passport to be returned ASAP, allowing me to travel? Is there an allowance in the British passport application for this, and how long before I might receive it back?

Q3 (related to Q2): If they return the passport on my request, will that void the British passport application, or can it continue? If it is voided and I have to apply again (in future), will that in any way negatively reflect on my second application?

And last question, but possibly one no one can answer. Why oh why are there such varying experiences in terms of the timeline in each processing office, and in between each steps of the process? I understand the pandemic now has put a delay on things, but even before covid the time in days varies wildly between many people, and not just the "total time", but as I said time in between steps. I know we are at their mercy, but the whole journey to citizenship and naturalisation is a very stressful journey for most, so why cant they have some standard here, when it comes to receiving documents, processing them, approving, and then printing & posting the British passport? Apologies, mini rant over.

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alterhase58
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by alterhase58 » Sun May 10, 2020 8:57 am

You should call the HMPO helpline to explain your requirement for early return. There may even be a chance to accelerate your passport application.
Contact details: https://www.gov.uk/passport-advice-line
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

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Zerubbabel
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by Zerubbabel » Sun May 10, 2020 9:30 am

I completed the process online, and sent my current passport (from another country) and naturalisation certificate to Liverpool passport office.
When was your naturalisation?

I always ask people to refrain from applying for first UK passport from abroad.

secret.simon
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by secret.simon » Sun May 10, 2020 10:08 am

Zerubbabel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:30 am
I always ask people to refrain from applying for first UK passport from abroad.
VocaVuna wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:59 pm
I completed the process online, and sent my current passport (from another country) and naturalisation certificate to Liverpool passport office.
I think that the OP is within the UK at the moment and meant to say that they have sent their non-British passport to the Passport Office. They are applying from within the UK.

To the OP: Be aware that the Passport Office staff will be (a) likely working from home and (b) are likely assisting other government departments.
For instance, Passport Office staff are assisting the DWP in clearing out Universal Credit applications.

My guess is that naturalisation and passport applications will likely be towards the bottom of their priority list.
VocaVuna wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:59 pm
Is the email/SMS notification not part of the process for each change that occurs?
No.
VocaVuna wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:59 pm
Do I need to be checking the status every few days if they won't email/SMS any more?
You could, if you wanted to.
VocaVuna wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 11:59 pm
Why oh why are there such varying experiences in terms of the timeline in each processing office, and in between each steps of the process? I understand the pandemic now has put a delay on things, but even before covid the time in days varies wildly between many people, and not just the "total time", but as I said time in between steps. I know we are at their mercy, but the whole journey to citizenship and naturalisation is a very stressful journey for most, so why cant they have some standard here, when it comes to receiving documents, processing them, approving, and then printing & posting the British passport?
Because each person's immigration journey is different and is likely reassessed at most stages, to ensure that an out-of-turn application can be caught, sometimes years into the future.

So, for instance, children of EEA citizens born in the UK and issued British passports on a mistaken reading of the law were refused renewals when those passports came up for renewals, because their applications were reassessed with an updated reading of the law - the law hadn't changed, but its interpretation had (which is why I advise never throwing away your original documentation that formed the basis of your immigration journey).
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Zerubbabel
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by Zerubbabel » Sun May 10, 2020 10:25 am

So, for instance, children of EEA citizens born in the UK and issued British passports on a mistaken reading of the law were refused renewals when those passports came up for renewals, because their applications were reassessed with an updated reading of the law - the law hadn't changed, but its interpretation had (which is why I advise never throwing away your original documentation that formed the basis of your immigration journey).
This is scary! Do you have any link for further reading please?

secret.simon
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by secret.simon » Sun May 10, 2020 10:58 am

Zerubbabel wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:25 am
So, for instance, children of EEA citizens born in the UK and issued British passports on a mistaken reading of the law were refused renewals when those passports came up for renewals, because their applications were reassessed with an updated reading of the law - the law hadn't changed, but its interpretation had (which is why I advise never throwing away your original documentation that formed the basis of your immigration journey).
This is scary! Do you have any link for further reading please?
There were a couple of cases reported here on these forums. Here is one. See in particular vinny's post in that thread that the issuance of a British passport does not confer citizenship and indeed is not determinative of British citizenship. On the other hand, a naturalisation or registration certificate is (but of course they are not travel documents).

The third post in that thread includes a link suggesting that the issue is more widespread (though restricted to A8 citizens who had issues with WRS registration) than that just reported on these forums.

Here is another thread, not about EEA citizenship in specific, but a a more general take/rant by me on the right (or lack thereof) to a passport.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

VocaVuna
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by VocaVuna » Sun May 10, 2020 11:17 am

secret.simon wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:08 am
I think that the OP is within the UK at the moment and meant to say that they have sent their non-British passport to the Passport Office. They are applying from within the UK.
Yes, that is right. I have not made that as clear as I could have.
secret.simon wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:08 am
To the OP: Be aware that the Passport Office staff will be (a) likely working from home and (b) are likely assisting other government departments.
For instance, Passport Office staff are assisting the DWP in clearing out Universal Credit applications.

My guess is that naturalisation and passport applications will likely be towards the bottom of their priority list.
Yep, fully aware of this.
secret.simon wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:08 am
Because each person's immigration journey is different and is likely reassessed at most stages, to ensure that an out-of-turn application can be caught, sometimes years into the future.
I'm not sure I fully understood this, what does someone immigration journey have to do with now that they are a naturalised British citizen?
Not to dwell on it (even though I understand there are different types of passport application - renewals, lost/stole, etc.), for people applying for their first British passport, after going through recent naturalisation, what else is there to be reassessed and especially at each step of the passport application? Maybe my understanding of the topic is limited, but myself (like many others) have gone through lengthy processes and have finally been naturalised, now all they need to do is check that I am a citizen, my identity has been confirmed and print a passport.


Back to original point.
I will most certainly call the passport office tomorrow to see what my option are, but I just wanted to understand what the process is. Someone wrote that I could ask for it to be accelerated, that sounds positive. Anyone know how that works, what the requirements are, so I have the best chance of the desired outcome (to travel ASAP), but also not to negatively impact my passport application.

Thank you all once again.

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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by anv1 » Sun May 10, 2020 12:04 pm

I’m in a similar situation to yours; Liverpool HMPO received my documents on 16/03/2020.
Contacted them and got this response:
“although applications are taking longer, we are continuing to progress them as soon as we can. We can only progress the passport application where the original supporting document is available for examination, so please do bear with us.
However if you do need your documents back urgently then please send a request for them to Livepool@hmpo.gov.uk. Please include a short explanation along with your reference number, full name, date of birth and full address.”

secret.simon
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by secret.simon » Sun May 10, 2020 4:06 pm

VocaVuna wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:17 am
what else is there to be reassessed and especially at each step of the passport application?...now all they need to do is check that I am a citizen, my identity has been confirmed and print a passport.
I'm not entirely sure that that is all there is to it. At the very least, checks will likely be made against international terrorism and no-fly checklists. There are likely other checks that we are unaware of. For instance, recently, there were two cases on these forums where the passports were refused because the first passports were applied for from abroad, thus bringing into question whether the applicant had met the "future intentions" requirement of the naturalisation application. So, it is not as simple or straight-forward as it may seem to you.
And it is not improbable that most of those checks are manual and not automated.

If you plan to leave without a British passport, I presume that you still have your ILR BRP or PR Card, as otherwise you may have issues will boarding a flight back to the UK.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

obormot
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by obormot » Mon May 11, 2020 10:07 am

I was recently able to get my non-UK (French) passport back from Liverpool PO.
(I needed it for dealing with the consulate of my original citizenship - I had to request some documents. And I was supposed to travel to France for work - short trip. I am not really an "essential worker" though.)
They retained my naturalization certificate and said they put my application on hold until I return them non-UK passport.
I contacted them by twitter, and then sent email explaining my situation.

I am now unsure how to proceed though..

I would not need my French passport after this week, so I can return it.
But I am supposed to be on work secondment in France from mid-late June for at least a year (I retain my post in UK though, so it is easy to show that this is supposed to be a temporary move). I would prefer to get UK passport before that.
But if PO does not process my passport by then, I would be without my French passport, which is really important to have when I move to France.

VocaVuna
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by VocaVuna » Mon May 11, 2020 10:43 pm

A quick update from myself.
So I called the HMPO today and having explained my situation and the circumstances I have abroad (hence the need to travel ASAP), I asked them what my options are.
- There is no accelerated process to complete the application (even if my current stage is "being processed" which is much better than 5.5 weeks of "we received your documents, please wait")
- I should write a letter... a letter, not an email from the email address they have on file, a letter... and explain my situation and ask for my non-British passport to be returned.
- They don't know or even have an indication as to how quickly they would process the passport return request, so I cannot book any flights for now

Along side that I used twitter to ask the same question, as someone previously mentioned they have contacted them on twitter and sent en email.
The agent on their twitter account advised they "sent an email to their colleagues at Liverpool, and advised them of my circumstance, however they cannot guarantee that will make any different to my application, but someone may get in touch, but that is not guaranteed".

So I'm pretty much gonna wait and see until tomorrow afternoon if anyone does contact me, if not I will go before 4pm to the post office and send the earlier mentioned letter next day delivery.

Wish me good luck.

obormot
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Re: First British passport application - early document return request

Post by obormot » Tue May 12, 2020 12:17 pm

I contacted them by private message on twitter in late April. They said to send email with attached file with explanation, and with the subject "attention of X" (the person whom I exchanged messages on twitter with). They also added caveat "I will pass your info, but no guarantee, no timeline, etc.". I received a call from PO a couple days after I sent an email, and they told me they are sending my passport back same day (and I received it another couple of days after that).
A couple of days before contacting them by twitter I called and was indeed told to write a physical letter (and include return envelope for my passport) - I did that also, but my letter apparently only arrived when I already received my passport back (as per post tracking)

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