Surinder Singh and working remotely

Does anyone know if you can use the Surinder Singh route when working remotely for a UK company in another EEA member state given all other stages of this route are met?

The SS route is premised on the ability of a British citizen, who has exercised treaty rights outside the UK AND who has created or strengthened family life with a family member during that exercise, moving back to the UK with their non-EEA family member.

If you are working remotely but not moving back to the UK, the route is not engaged.

If found out later, both the immigration status and any British citizenship acquired on deception can be stripped.

secret.simon wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:30 pm

The Surinder Singh route route is premised on the ability of a British citizen, who has exercised treaty rights outside the UK AND who has created or strengthened family life with a family member during that exercise, moving back to the UK with their non-EEA family member.

If you are working remotely but not moving back to the UK, the route is not engaged.

If found out later, both the immigration status and any British citizenship acquired on deception can be stripped.

See link bow of users previous similar query.

https://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-r ... l#p1878498

I will be returning once I have engaged my rights. I’m asking if working remotely is sufficient. I will of course integrate more into that country. I am
A dual citizen and have nationality firstly as British and secondly as a citizen of another EU state. I plan to go there next month and stay there for remainder of the year with spouse working remotely for my company based in UK. secret.simon not sure how that is deception when you are working and living in another EU state?

Also I will have to move back to UK once my office is back open due to COVID-19. This is just temporary for next few months. So why wouldn’t I go back to my EU other country where I hold citizenship and I have a lot of family there / can speak the language etc.

unitedkingdomalb wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:54 am

I will be returning once I have engaged my rights. I’m asking if working remotely is sufficient. I will of course integrate more into that country. I am
A dual citizen and have nationality firstly as British and secondly as a citizen of another EU state. I plan to go there next month and stay there for remainder of the year with spouse working remotely for my company based in UK. secret.simon not sure how that is deception when you are working and living in another EU state?

You can't exercise treaty rights in a country you hold nationality of.

unitedkingdomalb wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:54 am

I will be returning once I have engaged my rights.

This can lead the caseworker to think that the only reason you went there is so that you can claim that you exercised your treaty rights (which you cannot do in your own country of nationality, anyway).

I’m asking if working remotely is sufficient.

No, it is not. This is work for a company in the UK, not in the host contry, so this adds nothing to the reason of your stay in the host country. Remote work is not necessarily forbidden, but adds no substance to your claim and does not answer the quesiton as as to why you relocated there.

I will of course integrate more into that country.

You cannot "integrate" into a country you are a citizen of. Integration implies an effort to adapt to another culture, language, etc.

I am a dual citizen and have nationality firstly as British and secondly as a citizen of another EU state. I plan to go there next month and stay there for remainder of the year with spouse working remotely for my company based in UK.

In case this is not sufficiently clear yet, if you do want to excercise treaty rights you'll need to pick another country.

secret.simon not sure how that is deception when you are working and living in another EU state?

It would be deception if your only reason for relocating is to claim you exercised treaty rights, not because you had a genuine work oportunity, or similar reason. Do you simply want to circumvent British immigration rules? At least without any other substantial reason to be in the third country, that is what it will look like to the caseworker.

As with all immigration applications, the universal rule is : don't create artificial situations just to benefit from a given route.

Your application won't be processed by a machine that can be fooled as long as some boxes are ticked. It will be look at by a human being. And since its inception, Surinder Singh route has been attempted by many British people who tried to fit in at any cost.

Your plan to work remote for your current employer doesn't make sense. I guess you just keep everything as is: pay your taxes/contribution in the UK, your bank account, your driving license, your GP registration and possibly even address, but just relocate your laptop to some EEA country.

Also, as you are not subject to immigration control, there is only your word that you are not actually in the UK and claiming being elsewhere. There would be nothing in your situation that makes you different from any British citizen living and working in the UK. There is just your claim that you are not.

I have never lived in the EU country though I have just obtained citizenship through descent. So couldn’t I then exercise my treaty rights in a country I’ve never lived? I do plan to genuinely live there for a while as I have this opportunity to whilst able to work remotely. I would rent a property there, buy a car, work remotely but may also seek part-time work on weekends.

Why would I therefore need to pick another country if I’ve never lived there? I have only ever lived in UK.

Also, people apply for SS even without a job if they have savings - which I do.

Thanks for everyone’s input so far.

So couldn’t I then exercise my treaty rights in a country I’ve never lived?

No. To engage the EU rules and surinder singh, you must exercise great rights in any other EU state where you do NOT hold citizenship.

You cannot exercise treaty rights in a country where you are a citizen of that country, so in your case, that would be the UK AND the other country citizenship you hold. This has been repeated a few times now and unclear why this is not clear to you. It has nothing to do with never living there and everything to do with holding citizenship of that country.

If I go to that EU country with my husband though to live I will be able to apply for a family permit in that EU country for him if I am resident and he lives with me there won’t I?

As it will be EU law that will apply in that country, not UK law.

unitedkingdomalb wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:34 pm

If I go to that EU country with my husband though to live I will be able to apply for a family permit in that EU country for him if I am resident and he lives with me there won’t I?

unitedkingdomalb wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:36 pm

As it will be EU law that will apply in that country, not UK law.

No. In the country where you are a citizen, it is the country's domestic Immigration rules that apply to you not EU rules. So if you are dual British and say, a German citizen, if you go to Germany, you have to follow the German domestic immigration rules. EU rules don't apply as you cannot exercise treaty rights in a country of which you are a citizen.

So you cannot use the UK or you other EU country you are a citizen of to invoke the EU rules. Only domestic rules will apply.

Ok I am going to look into this. Thank you

This is the point we have been trying to make, to use the EU rules (and you are seriously running out of time), you need to go to ANY other EU state, ie not the UK or the EU country you are a citizen of.

Bear in mind also, that all EU states are aware of this backdoor approach and abuse of the route. Many EU states take months to issue residence documents, which you will need to be able to return to the UK once you have exercised treaty rights for a decent amount of time before returning to the UK. Your deadline is the 31st December 2020.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:50 pm

This is the point we have been trying to make, to use the EU rules (and you are seriously running out of time), you need to go to ANY other EU state, ie not the UK or the EU country you are a citizen of.

Bear in mind also, that all EU states are aware of this backdoor approach and abuse of the route. Many EU states take months to issue residence documents, which you will need to be able to return to the UK once you have exercised treaty rights for a decent amount of time before returning to the UK. Your deadline is the 31st December 2020.

An added complication of remotely working from the UK would be that in most EU countries, registering residence will make it mandatory to pay tax and social contributions in that country and also to join the health care system - all potentially complicated and expensive if OP is not actually employed in the host country.

Thank you. I know the rules state that you have until March 2022 to bring back a family member but for the EU permit will I need to have been living in that country for 3 months before 31 December 2020 in order for this to work or will I just need to be over in that new EU country with spouse by 31 December 2020?

I think (and some government guidance suggests) that the clock for starting a Surinder Singh route journey has already passed on 31st January 2020.

The UK has left the EU on 31st January 2020 and British citizens are no longer EU citizens (though they have some specific rights in EU countries under the Withdrawal Agreement).

Because British citizens are no longer EU citizens, the Surinder Singh route, which is based on an EU citizen returning to the country of their citizenship after exercising their rights under the EU treaties in another EU member-state, can no longer be triggered by a British citizen moving to another EU member-state after 31st January.

It remains valid for British citizens who has already moved to an EU member-state of which they are not a citizen before 31st January and has not returned to the UK, but I suspect that it is too late to start the journey now.

I share @secret.simon position.

When a route is closed, you may hear conflicting messages about it. The reason is that they close it for new entrants first while they keep it available to people already engaged in the route. This is to ensure smooth transition.

From all appearances, British people who have been legitimately resident in the EU before Jan 31st, may still trigger this route if they so desire.

If a British person goes to EEA countries now, most of them are no longer delivering Article 10 cards for British and their families. They deliver cards with the words "Withdrawal Agreement". I don't think these cards would allow the holder to come back to the UK and trigger Surinder Singh route.

Also, we are in August 2020. Any project involving going to the EU, gaining rights then coming back to the UK will face some tight deadlines.

Thank you. I think we will stick to the domestic UK route given the tight timeframe we have. I do meet all the requirements but was looking at alternatives also as they are much easier.