Staying more than 90 days

piloto1 wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:24 am

I have a similar question to the OP. Mods, let me know if i should start a new thread.

I have read the "Schengen, without visa for EEA nationals" thread which is very helpful.

My question relates to freedom of movement rules in the country of Citizenship of the EEA citizen, in our case Italy. I am not clear when EU/Schengen rules would apply, and when Italian rules would apply for any time spent in Italy.

We are aware Covid restrictions may place other barriers to travel and we may not be able to travel at all.

I am a British Citizen, my partner is a British / Italian Citizen. We will enter into a civil partnership or marriage in April this year, then register this with the Italian Consulate in London. As i understand it the Italian Authorities do not recognise mixed sex civil partnership, so we are working on the assumption this will need to be a marriage?

I understand that my spouse can travel in the Schengen area without a visa for more than 90 days, but that if she stays in any one country more than 90 days, she may be required to register in that EU country.

I understand that provided i travel with my spouse, I have freedom of movement rights derived from our relationship and can quote Article 5, Section 4 of 2004/38/EC as per the "Schengen, without visa for EEA nationals" thread.

However, I am not clear how any time spent in Italy works within this arrangement.

Originally, we had hoped to spend 6 months in Italy but we do not want to register as "resident" in Italy because we will be taking a UK registered vehicle, insured in the UK and covered for use in Europe. If we were resident in Italy, we would no longer be resident in the UK and our insurance would be invalidated.

We will be travelling for purposes of tourism, will not work, will have sufficient funds to support ourselves, sufficient travel/health insurance and will return to the UK after 6 months.

As I understand it, if we travelled for example 2 months in Spain, 2 months in France, 2 months in Germany, that would be permitted under freedom of movement of a mobile EU citizen accompanied by their spouse. What i don't understand is whether we could spend up to, but not more than 3 months in Italy, leave for another schengen country, before returning to Italy for up to another 3 months, and if we can how long would we need to remain outside of Italy before we could return?

Any advice gratefully received. Thanks in advance.

piloto1 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:46 am

Thanks, that helps.

Presumably I could spend up to 90 days in Italy as a British Citizen, then spend time in other EU countries outside of Italy as the Spouse of an EU citizen?

I will also research to see if I can spend 90 days in Italy as a British Citizen, leave for a period of time, then return with an Italian Spouse Visa.

Apparently, Italy does not make a distinction between the non-EU family members of Italian citizens and the non-EU family members of non-Italian EU citizens. Or, at least, they do not treat family members of Italian citizens more restrictively than they do those of other EU citizens.

The Italian implementation of the freedom of movement directive applies its provisions to the family members of Italian citizens, where its provisions are less restrictive than those otherwise in force:

Art. 23.

Applicabilita' ai soggetti non aventi la cittadinanza italiana che siano familiari di cittadini italiani

Le disposizioni del presente decreto legislativo, se piu' favorevoli, si applicano ai familiari di cittadini italiani non aventi la cittadinanza italiana.
Translation:

Article 23

Applicability to those, not having Italian citizenship, who are family of Italian citizens

The provisions of the present legislative decree, where more favorable, apply to the family members of Italian citizens who do not have Italian citizenship.
Source: http://www.esteri.it/mae/normative/norm ... 0_2007.pdf

piloto1 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:37 pm

Thanks.
Is there any guidance on how long I would need to spend outside Italy before being permitted to return?
For example,
Could we spend up to 90 days in Italy,
then two weeks / one month in Spain
then return to Italy for up to 90 days?

piloto1 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 09, 2021 4:00 pm

This link seems to suggest Italy does not treat family members of Italian citizens more restrictively than they do those of other EU citizens.

Does this look like a sound interpretation to you, and would this suggest, provided we don't spend more than 90 days in Italy, that we can exit and re-enter?

https://travel.stackexchange.com/questi ... e-schengen

Apparently, Italy does not make a distinction between the non-EU family members of Italian citizens and the non-EU family members of non-Italian EU citizens. Or, at least, they do not treat family members of Italian citizens more restrictively than they do those of other EU citizens.

The Italian implementation of the freedom of movement directive applies its provisions to the family members of Italian citizens, where its provisions are less restrictive than those otherwise in force:

Art. 23.

Applicabilita' ai soggetti non aventi la cittadinanza italiana che siano familiari di cittadini italiani

Le disposizioni del presente decreto legislativo, se piu' favorevoli, si applicano ai familiari di cittadini italiani non aventi la cittadinanza italiana.
Translation:

Article 23

Applicability to those, not having Italian citizenship, who are family of Italian citizens

The provisions of the present legislative decree, where more favorable, apply to the family members of Italian citizens who do not have Italian citizenship.
Source: http://www.esteri.it/mae/normative/norm ... 0_2007.pdf