EEA family permit - application 2 enter UK from member state

Hi
I am Polish and I am currently with my wife in Poland.
My wife is applying to get eea family permit she is non-eea national lawfully residing in Poland since may this year.

She has bad history from UK because she overstayed her student visa in august 2007 then she left England on her own to Zambia. We applied for eea family permit straight after our wedding in January this year by that time my wife was in Zambia and i was in UK and we were refused.

Now our circumstances changed she is with me in Poland i left England and we live in Poland together but we want to come back to UK.

My question is how my wife will be treated this time as i remember previously because she was applyinfg from non member stater she had to met some immigration requirements and application was treated as a settlement application ( i think because she was applying from zambia)

What advantage it gives us that we are applying from Poland?

Is embassy will be interested in her funds / accomodation / employment ?

I am very confused in these uk laws.

Once i found some pdf file which was detailing how ECO's calculate sufficient funds but i lost it!

Any help appreciated.

Check this out http://curia.europa.eu/en/actu/communiq ... 0057en.pdf

Bartek I will not help you but you can do as I am in your same situation that is why I hope you will help answering to me:
-what was the reason for which your first request was denied?after how long time of the marriage you applied the first time?and as I am going to apply in Warsaw too I would like to know how did you waited to have the appointment in the British embassy? thank you very much PAAA

The rights of residence of an EU citizen citizen (who is exercising EU Treaty rights), and the rights of his family members, are unaffected by previous immigration history.

skiesowner wrote:Bartek I will not help you but you can do as I am in your same situation that is why I hope you will help answering to me:
-what was the reason for which your first request was denied?after how long time of the marriage you applied the first time?and as I am going to apply in Warsaw too I would like to know how did you waited to have the appointment in the British embassy? thank you very much PAAA

First time my wife was applying from Zambia so it was different case. We tried to apply 3 weeks after marriage. Got refused under not meeting settlement requirements. In warsaw you need to apply online if that is what you mean ... web address is: http://www.visa4uk.fco.gov.uk/ then you book appointment for the day you whish to go and that's it I don't know what will happen next but i will be updating here.

Let us be abreast about all I hope that it will end in a good way as it must be for both of us,let us cross our fingers

well i still need my question to be answered though...

Hi batrick,

Are you coming to UK Permanently? Do you have any job here in UK now or do you have any job offer as this will make your wife’s application more easier I believe.

If you do not have job or any job offer here, do you have any bank account on joint name in Poland? Because you can apply for her EEA FP permit and they want to see your bank statements from last 2-3 months.

As regarding your wife's previous application, i dnt think embassy gona intrested in it. does your wife have now the karta pobytu? and when did you get married?

The UK authorities are not allowed to ask you for bank statements in order to issue your wife with an EEA FP. In matter of fact, they are not event allowed by Directive 38/2004 to ask your wife for any type of visa, if she is in possession of an EEA residence card as a family member.

Richard66 wrote:The UK authorities are not allowed to ask you for bank statements in order to issue your wife with an EEA FP. In matter of fact, they are not event allowed by Directive 38/2004 to ask your wife for any type of visa, if she is in possession of an EEA residence card as a family member.

Well I hope that is true and yes my wife has now temporary residence until 02/2010 she can travel within shengen zone with right to stay up to 6 months. Well i have experience that what says directive is one thing and what british say is second (i just don't have time and money to sue them for what they did to my wife in zambia) that's why i am so reluctand to go

Not 6 months, 3.

I'm having the same problem as you, but I've made a complaint to the European Commission. In principle I refuse to apply for this bogus visa. If more people protested the UK would soon change its ways.

Hi all,me too I have an Italian resident permit "permesso di soggiorno" and my future wife is working legally in the UK,does it mean that normally I don't need to apply for any visa to join her in UK??Can't believe that I am so afraid that they will may be not allow me to join my wife when European directives says that I must have a guarantied entrance to the UK!!!!

Sorry there, but you have a "permesso di soggiorno per lavoro subordinato" (that is, for work. You would need one as a family member. As you plan to marry in Poland and then go the UK, chances are you won't even have your Polish residence card as a family member. Then, yes, the UK will be right to ask you to apply for the EEA FP.

so if I will have carta bobytu "polish residence as family member" it will be easier for me??

Richard66 wrote:The UK authorities are not allowed to ask you for bank statements in order to issue your wife with an EEA FP. In matter of fact, they are not event allowed by Directive 38/2004 to ask your wife for any type of visa, if she is in possession of an EEA residence card as a family member.

Technically that is correct: the ECJ has decided that the right of free movement for spouses does not depend on these preconditions. However, there are two more issues to consider. Firstly, if you want to get the visa quickly and without fuss, that obviously requires you to cooperate. Unless they look really bad, handing in your bank statements can only help.

Secondly, and maybe more importantly, the view taken by the ECJ does not have political support. So the legal situation is likely to change, for example by a common statement of understanding, or even a revision of the Directive 2004/38. I can only speculate about the details, but I think movement within the EU will be very easy, but movement into the EU will be judged against stricter rules.

And the UKBA may well decide to "pre-empt" this legal swing, assuming that by the time the current decisions may be appealed, the change has already happened. Basically this means that the decisions by the ECJ are not implemented. Ok, this is a lot of guesswork, but it does explain the observed behaviour.

Firstly, if you want to get the visa quickly and without fuss, that obviously requires you to cooperate. Unless they look really bad, handing in your bank statements can only help.

At this point one might as well supply all documents needed for a normal spouse visa. Maybe also a certificate from the Hague Tribunal, stating that the bearer has not been indicted for genocide or crimes against humanity (one of the questions on the EEA FP).

The point is, what freedom of movement do I, a British Citizen (second class, I admit, as I am but so by descent) have, when my wife, in order to go to the UK must apply for this EEA? Can you imagine having to go to Rome (think of people who live in Sicily or in Trent), caryying a pile of documents, getting fringerprinted like a criminal for a permit which only lasts 6 months? And if we want to go to the UK twice a year? Must we go through this rigamarole twice a year? Can you imagine the expense we would incur to obtain this "free" bogus visa? And what happens if the Embassy takes exception to my bank statement or to my wife's work contract?

I, for one, refuse to accept this. I have taken it to the European Commission. If no one fights for our rights and liberties we shall soon be slaves.

So the legal situation is likely to change, for example by a common statement of understanding, or even a revision of the Directive 2004/38. I can only speculate about the details, but I think movement within the EU will be very easy, but movement into the EU will be judged against stricter rules.

This I very much doubt. Italy, for one, a Catholic country (I am also Popish!), has as one of its basic constitutional guarantees family unity. I cannot see the Italians changing their constitution to accommodate the UK and Ireland in their pathetic bid to curb illegal immigration.

And the UKBA may well decide to "pre-empt" this legal swing, assuming that by the time the current decisions may be appealed, the change has already happened. Basically this means that the decisions by the ECJ are not implemented. Ok, this is a lot of guesswork, but it does explain the observed behaviour.

I am not sure I quite understand you there.

so if I will have carta bobytu "polish residence as family member" it will be easier for me??

You'll need that if you intend applying from Poland, unless you apply within 90 days from your arrival in Poland (with your Italian PDS you can stay up to 90 days in any given Schengen state).

Richard66 wrote:I, for one, refuse to accept this. I have taken it to the European Commission.

I certainly appreciate that, and I intend to do the same if they take more than 6 months for the EEA2 application (which sounds quite likely). But I think it is only fair to mention that a confrontational stance is not going to make it any easier to get a visa. Being right and getting your right are two very different things when dealing with the Home Office.

And the UKBA may well decide to "pre-empt" this legal swing..

I am not sure I quite understand you there.

What I was trying to say is that the UKBA is acting illegally according to the current situation, and they know it. The main question is why. My guess is that the expect the legal situation to change "in their favour", and they just decide on the basis of what they thing the legal situation will be. Yes, this is currently wrong, but if the change does happen, any appeal would be futile.

I just wonder how much money is being wasted on appeal courts at the moment... this is certainly a strategy with a lot of "collateral damage" on all sides.

Richard66 wrote: The point is, what freedom of movement do I, a British Citizen (second class, I admit, as I am but so by descent) have, when my wife, in order to go to the UK must apply for this EEA? Can you imagine having to go to Rome (think of people who live in Sicily or in Trent), caryying a pile of documents, getting fringerprinted like a criminal for a permit which only lasts 6 months? And if we want to go to the UK twice a year? Must we go through this rigamarole twice a year? Can you imagine the expense we would incur to obtain this "free" bogus visa? And what happens if the Embassy takes exception to my bank statement or to my wife's work contract?

I, for one, refuse to accept this. I have taken it to the European Commission. If no one fights for our rights and liberties we shall soon be slaves.

Hi Richard66,
I agree with you 100% and i could fell this within me as well as my so called right to travel within EU with my spouse is basically violated by silly anti-immigration scheme they have going on.

Today i was in the embassy with my wife, and guess what! They didn't let me in to accompany my wife to the visa section!
I had to stay in a hallway as my wife travelled two floors up and had to deal with application on her own.

I find this kind of treatment very upseting as i think that i as her husband have right to accompany her!

My wife was scanned fingerprinted yet another time and treated as another immigrant tries to enter UK - woman in the embassy after flipping papers straight away said to her that she needs at least 2000 pounds on the bank statement to enter uk as a jobseeker (currently she has around 500), and my wife had to convince her to accept all the documents and pass them to the consul for consideration, lady just rolled her eyes, and said come back 3.

When we came back she said decision will be made within 14 days time.
That is crazy she couldn't say that first of all ?! No you know why because between 9 o'clock and 10:30 is the 'submiting application time' and 3 o'clock is the 'decision making time' anyway.

But you know what makes me angry?

The fact that me and my wife were both in the past working in the UK I was working roughly 3 years and she was working somwhere around 2. I gave around 11000 pounds in taxes + National Insurance my wife roughly similar ammount and they still had nerves to say that they're not going to let us in as there is propability of us depending on public funds(this hapenned on previous application)!

Wait a minute - I say - First of all i don't want goverment money! I have two healthy hands and will to work i find a job within 3 days in Uk and starting working is not an issue for me same for my wife, I think that public funds are for elderly and those that need it more than me! Sometimes i really feel ptitty for people applying for visas because those people from embassy really make you feel like a thief and treat you like an object!

Another issue is an marriage of convenience thing -- my God i thought i'm just going to flip as for the first time in my life someone was qestioning our purest intentions to be together. Why they need so much proof like even phone billings, love letters pictures from wedding and still they had nerves to say to my wife - that it is suspicious ?! I think if someone wants to cheat the system he will do it regardless of regulations, and level of security it is just a mater of time. They should spend time catching these people not making life difficult for young couples that want to live in peace.
Simple question to uk authorities will be how come my marriage is a marriage of convieniance as i spent whooping amount to get my closest family 8000 km from Poland to Zambia, then me myself talking to my wife over the phone every single day from london to zambia during 4 months of separation ((as she had to leave England because Home Office couldn't wait for her university to register her as student for next semester)) gathering the money and planning, only to know that by the end of the day we suposed to do this according to some kind of 'reasonable behaviour template' and that no one took our circumstances into account, we just recieved dry reply and kick in the mule.

Can someone kindly tell me how to complain to European Comission?

Oh another thought just crossed my mind sometimes UKBA reminds me of that advert i saw the other day it goes like this:

Young couple goes through the beautifull scenery somwhere in the mountains and suddenly they see old border guard who stops them in the middle of the field, takes their passports to hand ; and yells with some funny accent: ' No! Go! you need stamp! and repeats pointing finger at the empty page in the passport: STAMP! ; after such a dissapointment they back away a little - then couple has a brilliant idea of stamping their passports with an emblem from nestea bottle cap in the shape of leaf. after seeing such a stamp; border guard smiles with content and lets them pass.

Also eea family permit a bogus visa a unnecessary paper to regulate movement within eu which suposed to be free, created by british in fear to stop foreigners massive immigration to their country. If they want to be part of eu and schengen they shoul unify with it not pick and choose that yes we want economical benefits, police cooperation but free movement no.

But please don't take me wrong if i seem to be a bit antiUK at the end of the day it is the country in which i felt like I can do something with my life not only work to barely support myself with a vision of never moving out from my parents house (POLAND) but living working earning making plans for the future meet many new people. I really appreciate that and i thank England for that chance as I was one of the not many Polish people that went there to settle - not to only make money and come back. What i didn't expect is that i will be always treated and feeling as the foreigner not the member of EU but foreigner. When Poland entered EU I started percieving the vision behind it and believing in it; and I liked it - but reality hurts... UK needs to seriously consider it's position in this new United Europe reality.

just the thought to brighten the day and my time of anxious waiting for application decision....

bartek1981 wrote:Can someone kindly tell me how to complain to European Comission?

http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/site/index_en.htm

bartek1981 wrote:I find this kind of treatment very upseting as i think that i as her husband have right to accompany her!

I can understand how you feel, but I think it is up to the embassy how they handle the interview.

My wife was scanned fingerprinted yet another time and treated as another immigrant tries to enter UK

I am pretty sure that you could fight against the fingerprinting if you want to. The ECJ has repeatedly said that the standard for applications under European law is that it is no more complicated (or expensive) than a passport in the country you are applying for. Since a British passport does not contain fingerprints (and I still wonder why not), a visa under European law should neither.

Simple question to uk authorities will be how come my marriage is a marriage of convieniance

This is a tricky point. The law says that member states can implement measures against marriages of convenience. But casework law also says that they are only allowed to ask for further evidence if there is evidence for a marriage of convenience, and they cannot suspect that in every applicant.

Can someone kindly tell me how to complain to European Comission?

I would recommend to contact SOLVIT first, they can be incredibly helpful. You have to contract the branch in your native country. Of course you can also complain to the European Commission http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/your_ ... rms_en.htm . But please make sure that you have a good case, after all you want it to stick.

My position is: Either I get into my own country with my wife without a visa or I don't go. They are getting no fingerprints or bank statements from her. I'm simply not having it.

I can understand how you feel, but I think it is up to the embassy how they handle the interview.

I was not aware that interviews were part of a simpified and accelerated procedure. I was also not aware you needed to have funds in order to go there. This seems a very elastic interpretation of a rule that does not exist.

...they cannot suspect that in every applicant.

To the UK every marriage to a visa national seems to be a marriage of convenience. It is up to the couple to prove otherwise. I, for one, have lived either in Italy or France since 1994. Of course, I married a Russian psychologist in 2007 only so she could go as an illegal imigrant to the UK to wash dishes in a seedy restaurant in a moth-eaten inner city. It's so obvious, principally if you consider we are still together and a baby is coming. Maybe it will be a baby of convenience?

What I was trying to say is that the UKBA is acting illegally according to the current situation, and they know it. The main question is why. My guess is that the expect the legal situation to change "in their favour", and they just decide on the basis of what they thing the legal situation will be. Yes, this is currently wrong, but if the change does happen, any appeal would be futile.

I do not agree there: they are just banking on the length of time a complaint takes to reach the European Court of Justice. In this age of chicken-hearted people, most just give in rather than stand their ground and fight.

But I think it is only fair to mention that a confrontational stance is not going to make it any easier to get a visa. Being right and getting your right are two very different things when dealing with the Home Office.

As I said before, I really do not care if I offend some poor, overworked immigration officer in Rome or not. I am applying for no visa, EEA FP, peanut soup or whatever they call it.

I am afraid I sound very very anti-UK. Well, yes, I am. I do think the country whose passport I hold should treat its citizens with a little more respect.

Of course you can also complain to the European Commission http://ec.europa.eu/community_law/your_ ... rms_en.htm . But please make sure that you have a good

Do not worry here: you are in good company and the UK is already in the dock before the ECJ for its faulty incorporation of the Directive. Another complaint will make no harm!

Take a look at the EEA FP article on Wikipedia, that I have edited:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eea_family_permit