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First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:21 am

Hi Guys
These are the documents which all the Pakistani nationals need to submit with their first time passport application
1 Original passport
2 Computerized issued Birth certificate attested by Foreign office in Pakistan first and then attested by the Embassy in Dublin
3 Bank statement and utility bill ,don't need to stamp it
4 Original CNIC ,NICOP they won't accept copies or the one in Urdu
5 Family registration certificate through nadra online ,you will need your parents and sibling details to apply, the fee is 10 euros and they process it in 3 days .
Get all these documents to avoid delays
6 Naturalization certificate
7 PSC copy

Chap1122
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:57 am
Zimbabwe

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by Chap1122 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:37 pm

Bro it's different for different people
They may ask domicile certificate and primary school leaving certificate too one day By the look of it .

Also asked me resubmit the Garda witness form, which is terrible.

I think we should go to court as Naturalisation was privilege but passport is a right isn't it?

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:35 am

You are absolutely right ,I have already sent a complaint letter to the passport office as there is no mention of these documents on their website and if they are signalling us out because we come from Pakistan then they have to give us a valid reason of why they haven't mentioned then on their website

Chap1122
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:57 am
Zimbabwe

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by Chap1122 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 6:17 pm

Spoke to Chat today with emphasis on writing these documents specific for Pakistan origin nationals.

Was told to contact Embassy and NADRA as they have specifically asked for these documents to verify.

So cat is out of the bag eventually and problem is within
Thank

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:03 am

I am very surprised that our government will ask Irish authorities to do this ,I will try to find more information on this

White_Pearl
Member
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:05 am
Ireland

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by White_Pearl » Sat Sep 11, 2021 11:37 am

That is because many documents are dodged (this has the do with the sham marriages and things like it which happened in the past.
Pakistan is red flagged and unfortunately all Pakistani nationals have to pay the price for it.
The process is as follows:

The consulate from Karachi will contact (by sending their officials) local councils/nadra offices which has issued the relevent documents, birth cert/frc and will verify details with them but this process is very lenghty and isn’t prioritised at all this is something in the country itself what is disorganised.

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:03 pm

I completely agree with verification of documents but that has already been done by the naturalization department, we are applying as an Irish citizen for an Irish passport ,their job is to issue the passport once all the documents mentioned on their website are sent to them ,I spoke to a solicitor yesterday and as per the rule they don't have a jurisdiction in asking for our family details which is mentioned on the FRC document and they are actually committing GDPR breach and also discrimination against us as they are not an investigation agency .I will be sending them a letter through my solicitor on Tuesday ,I will take them to court over this

littlerr
Respected Guru
Posts: 2461
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:14 pm
China

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by littlerr » Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:51 pm

drfas wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:03 pm
I completely agree with verification of documents but that has already been done by the naturalization department, we are applying as an Irish citizen for an Irish passport ,their job is to issue the passport once all the documents mentioned on their website are sent to them ,I spoke to a solicitor yesterday and as per the rule they don't have a jurisdiction in asking for our family details which is mentioned on the FRC document and they are actually committing GDPR breach and also discrimination against us as they are not an investigation agency .I will be sending them a letter through my solicitor on Tuesday ,I will take them to court over this
What you described is not a GDPR breach. On the opposite, if INIS (the ‘naturalisation department’) gave these details to DFAT, that is a GDPR breach, as INIS will not have the permission to share information with DFAT other than the purpose of verifying a naturalisation application.

If it is a requirement from your embassy, you need to sue your own embassy (which you will need to check for Pakistani laws instead of Irish laws). DFAT is required to independently verify identities before a passport can be issued.

So in your case, your embassy stated that the Irish officials cannot verify any Pakistani details unless additional information is provided. That is not DFAT’s fault.

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:56 pm

I was talking to the Pakistani ambassador who is also a doctor and he is saying that nothing of this sort has been ever mentioned to the passport office ,I will be interested if Chap1122 has got the transcript of the webchat and I can get a copy of it, because I do want to pursue this ,I have all the means to run this case ,furthermore the Pakistani ambassador has agreed to give me a letter that nothing of this sort has been asked by the Pakistani authority ,I just need that transcript which Chap1122 has

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:04 pm

GDPR breach happens when they disclose any personal data to anyone who we have not consented for and if the document hasn't been mentioned on their website for first time applicants they have no legal standing firstly asking for it and secondly disclosing it to another authority

littlerr
Respected Guru
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Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:14 pm
China

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by littlerr » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:16 pm

Well a GDPR breach is when someone disclosed information to a third party without your consent. If DFAT asks *you* to provide the document for verification purposes, and you consent to giving these documents to them, that is not a breach. (That’s why they have to ask *you* to provide consent for e-vetting, instead of directly asking Garda to have over all your information to them.)

Whether or not they put that information on their website is irrelevant, as each country has their own rules of verifying identifications. For example, it is much much more difficult to get the Chinese authority to verify identities on behalf of a foreign entity and they require much more red tapes. Fortunately, they don’t care about passport offices as a person is no longer considered Chinese citizen as soon as they get a different citizenship.

If, for example, DFAT directly asks *your embassy* to provide your information to them, that is a GDPR breach. But asking you directly is not a breach.

Anyway, I fully support that you guys get to the bottom of the issue. It was never a requirement previously, so something must have changed in the last year or so.

You could ask DFAT for a complete list of documents for Pakistani naturalised Irish citizens under FOI, and specifically ask them to provide reasons for any additional documents that are not listed on their website. They are bound by law to provide a reason for that.

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:28 pm

Regarding the question of identity check ,we have submitted the identity verification document which has been filled by a Gardai after he /she checks our identity

littlerr
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Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:14 pm
China

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by littlerr » Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:55 pm

That’s incorrect. Gardai is a *witness* who makes sure that it is you that signs the application. Gardai has no way of checking the validity of your documents. That has to be done by DFAT and embassies.

Anyway, like I said, you have our full support if you wish to go to court on this. All I am saying is that you need to make your own checks and judgments to make sure that DFAT or INIS or your embassy is actually breaking a law. Don’t just assume they have because your ID check requirements are different. If someone needs your national ID or family registration certs to verify your identity, it is hardly a valid reason to say it’s illegal. At best, you could say it’s improper and not thought through as they were not advertised on their website.

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:01 pm

That's exactly my point why are they only asking Pakistani nationals for extra documents , i would have no objection if they had said on their website that for pakistan national these further documents are required ,I think that's what I call discrimination against Pakistani nationals and if Chap 1122 has that webchat saved that will be cherry on the top

Diomond
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Posts: 167
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Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by Diomond » Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:20 pm

I think its a good move and all pakistanis should support such a move . And also under the freedom of information act if someone ask INIS that which nationality application for naturalisation are delayed for more than 3 years ,in numbers u might see pakistanis top the list with huge margin. That also need to be looked at.

Joogoduniya
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:31 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by Joogoduniya » Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:09 am

Hi all,

Just quick question.


What FRC we need to submit?

1) FRC with Parents and Siblings

OR

2) FRC with wife and Kinds


Please advise on it.

Thanks a mil

Chap1122
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:57 am
Zimbabwe

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by Chap1122 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:39 pm

Hi guys
I spoke to chat again today and protest again for asking additional documents like FRC but also to reset the clock to first time applicant though documents are not mentioned on website.
I have chat saved.I asked them to mention these on website atleast to save time and also to help others in future.

I also suggest to email minister Pascal and record your protest.

Also keep chatting with them everyday and record your protest.
Enough is enough.
Sham marriages were not related to Pakistan only unfortunately but I feel embassy has to do with it.

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:10 pm

I agree with you, I think the minister is Simon Coveney and not Pascal Donohue ,there is no difference between them ,they are the same peas in the pod.
I think there is something wrong with the marriage system but if the Irish authority allows a marriage and doesn't overhaul the system its not our problem that they are delaying our applications .

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:11 pm

Joogoduniya wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:09 am
Hi all,

Just quick question.


What FRC we need to submit?

1) FRC with Parents and Siblings

OR

2) FRC with wife and Kinds


Please advise on it.

Thanks a mil
I think you need both as they are looking for your connection with your parents and also with your partner and children

Virgo
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:40 pm
Ireland

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by Virgo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:06 am

drfas wrote:
Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:21 am
Hi Guys
These are the documents which all the Pakistani nationals need to submit with their first time passport application
1 Original passport
2 Computerized issued Birth certificate attested by Foreign office in Pakistan first and then attested by the Embassy in Dublin
3 Bank statement and utility bill ,don't need to stamp it
4 Original CNIC ,NICOP they won't accept copies or the one in Urdu
5 Family registration certificate through nadra online ,you will need your parents and sibling details to apply, the fee is 10 euros and they process it in 3 days .
Get all these documents to avoid delays
6 Naturalization certificate
7 PSC copy
Hi there,
I spoke to one of the staff member on the phone regarding NIC and FRC they don't have any solid explanation why they are looking for those xtra docs, Only they say identification check when i told him that i sent you my national passport along with my birth certificate and PPS card with proof of address from different sources he still was going around circle again n again. Also i told him i have my nic in urdu and i cant produce my NICOPE in seven days then he said don't worry send ur nic doesn't matter if its in english or urdu we just need to see the photo on it :-) I then realised they are just wasting our time to just ease the backlog :-)

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:59 am

Quick update guys ,I have started legal proceeding today ,the cost is around 431 euros including VAT which includes all the communication with the department ,the solicitor was saying that the passport office has no legs to stand on as they have already confirmed our identity by virtue of PSC card because its a government given ID which has only been issued after a government official sees us face to face .I will keep you updated regarding the communication ,it will be interesting to see what the department will say now as the solicitor has given them 7 days to respond ,I have already spoken to a barrister to take a high court challenge. I am going to expose their lies and discrimination.

Joogoduniya
Newbie
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:31 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by Joogoduniya » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:03 am

drfas wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:59 am
Quick update guys ,I have started legal proceeding today ,the cost is around 431 euros including VAT which includes all the communication with the department ,the solicitor was saying that the passport office has no legs to stand on as they have already confirmed our identity by virtue of PSC card because its a government given ID which has only been issued after a government official sees us face to face .I will keep you updated regarding the communication ,it will be interesting to see what the department will say now as the solicitor has given them 7 days to respond ,I have already spoken to a barrister to take a high court challenge. I am going to expose their lies and discrimination.
DrAfas, You did a very good Job. Thanks a mil

Virgo
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:40 pm
Ireland

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by Virgo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:17 am

drfas wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:59 am
Quick update guys ,I have started legal proceeding today ,the cost is around 431 euros including VAT which includes all the communication with the department ,the solicitor was saying that the passport office has no legs to stand on as they have already confirmed our identity by virtue of PSC card because its a government given ID which has only been issued after a government official sees us face to face .I will keep you updated regarding the communication ,it will be interesting to see what the department will say now as the solicitor has given them 7 days to respond ,I have already spoken to a barrister to take a high court challenge. I am going to expose their lies and discrimination.
That will be great. Can't wait to see the outcome . If you need any kind help just let us know all regardless if we are from the same region or different, Can't face this kind behaviour n standard towards different nationality or nationalities.

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:48 am

It will be nice for all of us who comes from Pakistan to meet up on Zoom or some kind of network to discuss this kind of behaviour from the passport office but the irony is that we can't publish any contact information over this page

drfas
Junior Member
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:08 pm
Pakistan

Re: First time passport application documents needed for Pakistani nationals

Post by drfas » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:01 am

The other thing I want to make clear here is I am against sham marriages or any illegal way someone gets their nationality but if the naturalization certificate has been issued to them it means their identity and the marriage authentication has been verified multiple times first by the virtue of the marriage registrar then the immigration authorities and finally by the natiralization certificate office .In my case I am a doctor who worked on the basis of work permits for 5 years getting them renewed every 6 months in Dunlin required me to go to the GNIB office with my passport having pictures taken every 6 months for the GNIB card and then separate application for re entry visa .A further wait of 2 and a half years waiting to get naturalized where they did atleast 2 garda checks as per my FOI and still they think I'm not who I am on the paper is a big joke .How come the system be so clogged up with inefficiency when our neighbouring country issues a first time passport to my Pakistani friend in 15 days during the height of pandemic and here we are perplexed with the situation that passport office wants us to prove our identity after living here for more than 8 years .truly astonishing and mind boggling ,or its just civil service pure incompetence

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