NO visa required for family members going to IRELAND.......

I guess this was just updated and I saw it from delta that no more visa required for family members to a EU citizen going to Ireland, I guess its just UK left...



http://www.delta.com/planning_reservati ... formation/

Ireland (Republic of) (IE)


Passport required.
- Passport and/or passport replacing documents must be valid
for the period of intended stay.

Visa required, except for Those, irrespective of nationality,
for a max. stay of 3 months, holding "family member" residence
permit issued by Romania to a family member of an E.E.A.
national or national of Switzerland, provided travelling with
or travelling to join the E.E.A. national or national of
Switzerland.

Funny that. So now all we need to go is to go to Ireland! EEA FP, bye bye!

Now, I did this research:

National Russian Federation (RU)
Residence Ireland (Republic of) (IE)
Destination United Kingdom (Great Britain) (GB)

United Kingdom (Great Britain) (GB)


Passport required.
- Passport and/or passport replacing documents must be valid
for the period of intended stay.

Visa required.

Minors:
- When their names are registered in the passport of (one of)
their parents or guardians, For details, click here
- Children must also comply with the entry or transit
regulations. For details, click here
Additional Information:
- Flights from United Kingdom to Channel Islands, Ireland
(Rep. of) and Isle of Man are domestic flights. Therefore
passports are not required for any nationality.
- Pupils (irrespective of nationality) residing in an E.U.
member state For details, click here
- Pupils (irrespective of nationality) residing in an E.U.
member state For details, click here
Warning:
- There is no passport control on traffic between "Great
Britain & Northern Ireland" and "Ireland (Rep. of)".
For details, click here
- Non-compliance with entry/transit requirements (incl. forged
documents) For details, click here

You need a visa but no one will actually check it!

The only problem is that Delta hasn't told the Irish Immigration Department yet about this.

Because the Irish Embassy in the UK, the Irish Embassy in Germany and the Irish Immigration Service in Dublin deny that Non-EU passport holding spouses of EU citizens holding EU residence permits are eligible to enter Ireland without a Visa.

So I would def. not attempt to get on a plane to try this out.

Are we sure the Irish Embassies have it right? Personal experience has told me the last people to be trusted are the Embassies. They are like the husband in the joke: always the last to be informed.

After all, the UK embassy once told me that UK citizens exercising treaty rights could not return with family members to the UK on a visit and they proved wrong, so, if the British can get it wrong, don't the Irish have a perfect right to do so also?

Yes, I am pretty certain about that.

That's why I also called the Irish Immigration Department in Dublin a few weeks back, and they confirmed the Embassies Information.

Ah, but you go this information from the correct source in the end!

How come then Delta is posting such information? Will they not pay the price for this or are family members allowed in?

Richard66 wrote:Ah, but you go this information from the correct source in the end!

How come then Delta is posting such information? Will they not pay the price for this or are family members allowed in?

The data comes actually from the timatic database which other airlines (many? most? all?) use as well. (Ryanair is obviously using the printed manual for example.)

What are the chances things actually did change since dsab85 called Dublin? These things do happen and I think it is strange the visa database would have been updated without a reason.

Well u dont just have to accuse delta or thinking they made a mistake, I have about couples of ones that I checked from and all said same thing..
U guys can even try KLM..it says no visa.

So if its a mistake then its a general mistake but I dont think it is as there have being complains lately and its possible it might have being changed.

Given Irelands past record on EU directives I'd be very surprised if this was true.

Well thank God we have embassies...I will contact them tomorrow and paste whatever they tell me here and also tell them whats written on the KLM and other websites saying no visa-required for family members...simple!!!

For the UK (not Ireland), I wonder if the following works:

As far as I understand, >>this<<is an explanation of EEA-rules for consular staff by the homeoffice itself.

On page 3 of this paper you will find the following paragraph:

Before an Immigration Officer refuses admission to a non-EEA national under Regulation 11(2) because s/he does not produce an EEA family permit, the IO must give the non-EEA national reasonable opportunity to provide by other means proof that he/she is a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that national or join him/her in the UK.

So my guess is that, as long as the EU and the non-EU family-members travel together, have both passports and the marriage-certificate with them, it may be possible to gain entry into the UK, according to the UK's own rules.

Did anyone ever try this, or am I wrong somehow?

ca.funke wrote:For the UK (not Ireland), I wonder if the following works:

As far as I understand, >>this<<is an explanation of EEA-rules for consular staff by the homeoffice itself.

On page 3 of this paper you will find the following paragraph:

Before an Immigration Officer refuses admission to a non-EEA national under Regulation 11(2) because s/he does not produce an EEA family permit, the IO must give the non-EEA national reasonable opportunity to provide by other means proof that he/she is a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that national or join him/her in the UK.

So my guess is that, as long as the EU and the non-EU family-members travel together, have both passports and the marriage-certificate with them, it may be possible to gain entry into the UK, according to the UK's own rules.

Did anyone ever try this, or am I wrong somehow?

Friend you are very right and most people are awear of this but I guess most (except Richard66) are just scared of giving it a trier and not trying to stand on the rights of family member but agreeing with the UK laws and stuff, I wanted to try this as you might know from my link http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=32232 But almost everybody said I shouldnt try it as surely they will deport me and stuffs like that being the fact I was earlier refused or so.

But this fact remains on that paragraph saying the reason for entry refusal will base on the person not having a prove he or she is a family member of the EU citizen in which I have all...ALLL. What can we do or say..am just tired of all, I called the IRELAND embassy here in Romania to comfirm if family members needs visa going to Ireland and they said YES but less application but still requesting for a statement of account. This things will never get better cus its always from one thing to the other.

Yes, Charles Funke, the immigration officer will let you in, but the UK has made sure no family member will make it that far by blocking the non-EEA party at the airport.

It funny, because UK Immigration on the Eurostar is in France, yet I have heard of no one making it. Why?

The document you quoted needs to be updated. I wonder if the UK is looking into it.

All this is so funny ....well whatever, we should all go to the countries of less problem or what else can we do? as we have made complains and all but even if they clear(family members can accompany or join within the EU) it from the EU court, those down which are the embassies will not clear it out and will still say different thing.

This family case was just ammending by the EU court couple of weeks ago that family member with a residence card for family issued from any EU country can accompany or join his spouse with the EU and SCHENGEN countries But still ..no changes from both Ireland and UK

This family case was just ammending by the EU court couple of weeks ago that family member with a residence card for family issued from any EU country can accompany or join his spouse with the EU and SCHENGEN countries But still ..no changes from both Ireland and UK

What are you talking about here? Let us into the secret! Send the link!

Richard66 wrote:Yes, Charles Funke, the immigration officer will let you in, but the UK has made sure no family member will make it that far by blocking the non-EEA party at the airport.

What do you mean, Richard?

Richard66 wrote:It funny, because UK Immigration on the Eurostar is in France, yet I have heard of no one making it. Why?

The document you quoted needs to be updated. I wonder if the UK is looking into it.

In what way does it need to be updated? It's wording is accurate, in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC Article 5(4):

Where a Union citizen, or a family member who is not a national of a Member State, does not
have the necessary travel documents or, if required, the necessary visas, the Member State
concerned shall, before turning them back, give such persons every reasonable opportunity to obtain
the necessary documents or have them brought to them within a reasonable period of time or to
corroborate or prove by other means that they are covered by the right of free movement and
residence.

Richard66 wrote:

This family case was just ammending by the EU court couple of weeks ago that family member with a residence card for family issued from any EU country can accompany or join his spouse with the EU and SCHENGEN countries But still ..no changes from both Ireland and UK

What are you talking about here? Let us into the secret! Send the link!

This is was was said and ammended and from what I understand...its either one comes in with a family or spouse visa or a residence card for family members then he can get a family permit automatically....meaning student or visitor cant automatically change to family permit or am I wrong?


On those grounds, the Court (Grand Chamber) hereby rules:

1. Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2004 on the right of citizens of the Union and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States amending Regulation (EEC) No 1612/68 and repealing Directives 64/221/EEC, 68/360/EEC, 72/194/EEC, 73/148/EEC, 75/34/EEC, 75/35/EEC, 90/364/EEC, 90/365/EEC and 93/96/EEC precludes legislation of a Member State which requires a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in that Member State but not possessing its nationality to have previously been lawfully resident in another Member State before arriving in the host Member State, in order to benefit from the provisions of that directive.

2. Article 3(1) of Directive 2004/38 must be interpreted as meaning that a national of a non-member country who is the spouse of a Union citizen residing in a Member State whose nationality he does not possess and who accompanies or joins that Union citizen benefits from the provisions of that directive, irrespective of when and where their marriage took place and of how the national of a non-member country entered the host Member State.



Also ....:


8 Article 5 of Directive 2004/38, ‘Right of entry’, states:

‘1. Without prejudice to the provisions on travel documents applicable to national border controls, Member States shall grant Union citizens leave to enter their territory with a valid identity card or passport and shall grant family members who are not nationals of a Member State leave to enter their territory with a valid passport.

…

2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt such family members from the visa requirement.

charles4u wrote:

Richard66 wrote:

This family case was just ammending by the EU court couple of weeks ago that family member with a residence card for family issued from any EU country can accompany or join his spouse with the EU and SCHENGEN countries But still ..no changes from both Ireland and UK

What are you talking about here? Let us into the secret! Send the link!

This is was was said and ammended and from what I understand...its either one comes in with a family or spouse visa or a residence card for family members then he can get a family permit automatically....meaning student or visitor cant automatically change to family permit or am I wrong?


On those grounds, the Court (Grand Chamber) hereby rules:

<snip>

charles4u,

Familiarise yourself with the Metock case, and the judgement on 25/07/2008.

Ireland is certainly acknowledging this judgement when processing relevant new and previously rejected Residence Card applications. I cannot confirm or deny the UK's adherence though.

Wow its so interesting and surely I will make a contibution ...
we hope all leads to a good and lawful rights for family members.

But even with this Judgement they are still requesting for visa for family members going to Ireland, and the case based mostly on those they refused their application/residence card cus of the status in Ireland as at the time they got married and applied.

charles4u wrote:But even with this Judgement they are still requesting for visa for family members going to Ireland,

This judgement was made for a case unrelated to visa requirements of non-EU family members entering Ireland.

charles4u wrote:and the case based mostly on those they refused their application/residence card cus of the status in Ireland as at the time they got married and applied.

Yes, this is correct. Basically, it ended Ireland's prior legal residence in another Member State requirement.

benifa wrote:[Ireland is certainly acknowledging this judgement when processing relevant new and previously rejected Residence Card applications. I cannot confirm or deny the UK's adherence though.

Prior residence was never a condition as far as I know (otherwise I wouldn't be in the UK). If you apply form outside the EEA normal immigration rules will apply for the non-EEA partner. I don't know, however, how the UK handles in-country marriages (or if that is possible at all for certain groups).

charles4u wrote:

ca.funke wrote:For the UK (not Ireland), I wonder if the following works:

As far as I understand, >>this<<is an explanation of EEA-rules for consular staff by the homeoffice itself.

On page 3 of this paper you will find the following paragraph:

Before an Immigration Officer refuses admission to a non-EEA national under Regulation 11(2) because s/he does not produce an EEA family permit, the IO must give the non-EEA national reasonable opportunity to provide by other means proof that he/she is a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that national or join him/her in the UK.

So my guess is that, as long as the EU and the non-EU family-members travel together, have both passports and the marriage-certificate with them, it may be possible to gain entry into the UK, according to the UK's own rules.

Did anyone ever try this, or am I wrong somehow?

Friend you are very right and most people are awear of this but I guess most (except Richard66) are just scared of giving it a trier and not trying to stand on the rights of family member but agreeing with the UK laws and stuff, I wanted to try this as you might know from my link http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=32232 But almost everybody said I shouldnt try it as surely they will deport me and stuffs like that being the fact I was earlier refused or so.

But this fact remains on that paragraph saying the reason for entry refusal will base on the person not having a prove he or she is a family member of the EU citizen in which I have all...ALLL. What can we do or say..am just tired of all, I called the IRELAND embassy here in Romania to comfirm if family members needs visa going to Ireland and they said YES but less application but still requesting for a statement of account. This things will never get better cus its always from one thing to the other.

The Irish embassy would say yes with regards your request for a visa because they still want to be relevant within the immigration arena. When i went for my 6 MONTHS stamp 4 GNIB card, they wanted to give me three months, so i kicked off at the guy in the booth and told him to call his supervisor and i got my 6 months, they are all chancers and within 2 months i have my EU fam 4. The only problem i envisage is the airlines but you can always take copies of directive 2004/38/EC and kick off if they try to refuse you boarding and threaten to sue as well because you are within your rights (any lawyer would take your case because it is law). The whole EU thing has shown me that a lot of these immigration and government officials are just a bunch of chancers, they dont like the diplomatic approach (always start by being diplomatic). I would be going to the UK via belfast for Xmas with my partner and i dont have any intention of applying for any rubbish Family Permit, i am not going via Dublin airport because it's an important family function but on my next visit in January i would be going via Dublin airport and i would be ready for a fight (not physical) and if iam refused boarding i would make the airline pay for their mistake.

86ti wrote:

benifa wrote:[Ireland is certainly acknowledging this judgement when processing relevant new and previously rejected Residence Card applications. I cannot confirm or deny the UK's adherence though.

Prior residence was never a condition as far as I know (otherwise I wouldn't be in the UK). If you apply form outside the EEA normal immigration rules will apply for the non-EEA partner. I don't know, however, how the UK handles in-country marriages (or if that is possible at all for certain groups).

I dont get what u mean here..r u saying u went to the UK with just ur family member card or? ...if I get u right if one goes with a family residence from another EU to another...he or she should be automatically getting another family card except ofcourse Romania and Bulgaria who still needs to work for one yr cus they are not free to the labour market yet.