HSMP ILR Dependent - Application for Naturalisation

I arrived in the UK on a 5-year work permit on 3/7/2004. I was awarded an HSMP approval on 22/3/2006, and was granted variation in leave (for 2 years) from work permit to HSMP on 8/9/2006.

Since HSMP ceased to exist on the expiry of my HSMP initial leave, I was granted a 3 year leave under the Tier 1 General - Highly Skilled Worker on 4/8/2008.

Luckily as my HSMP application was lodged before 3/4/2006, I fell into the HSMP ILR Judicial Review Policy Document. This enabled me to apply for ILR with the Home Office on 9/6/2009 and was given a backdated entitlement of ILR from 3/7/2008.

I will now be applying for Naturalisation on 6/7/2009.

My wife arrived in the UK as an HSMP dependent on 12/11/2006. She then became a Tier 1 Dependent after the HSMP scheme suspended.

She applied for ILR along with me on 9/6/2009 (as she had completed 2 years in the UK) and was also given a backdated entitlement of ILR from 3/7/2008.

Now the questions confronting me are:

1) Can my wife apply for Naturalisation at the same time as myself (I intend to make my application on 6/7/2009). This would enable us to pay £850 for both the applications (rather than £720 each should we have to apply separately).

My understanding on this matter is that she would not be able to apply along with me, as she would not have been in the UK for 5 years on the date of the application.

2) If the answer to the above question is "No", would she be able to apply on 13/11/2009 (assuming that the British Citizenship Rules do not change by then) under the 3-year British Citizen's spouse category (assuming I have been awarded British Citizenship by then and we are still together) even though she did not enter the UK as the spouse of a British Citizen, but as the spouse of an HSMP dependent.

Hello

Here is my take on your query.

1) No, you wife cannot apply with you as she has not completed five year residnecy.

2) As soon as you get naturalization certificate, you wife can apply for naturalization as a spouse of British citizen provided she meets the three year residence criteria. It dosen't matter if she was on a spouse or hsmp dependent visa.

Rgds

Hello,

I have an ILR appointment with dependent at PEO for 1st week July under 4 years ILR JR.

I entered in UK in Aug 2004 and hope to get back dated ILR for Aug 2008 which will make me eligible to apply for British Citizenship in Aug 2009 (5 years in total).

My wife and child as my (HSMP) dependents entered in UK in end April 2005 (8 months later then me). Although they will get back dated ILR with me for Aug 2008 but can they apply for British Citizenship with me in Aug 2009 as they will not be completing 5 years at such time (8 months less because they had entered later then me).

My question is that do they also need to complete 5 years before applying for British Citizenship regardless if they have one year old ILR and are HSMP dependents ?

Please advise...

Many Thanks

HSMP 1+3+3

Hello

No your wife is not able to apply for naturalization with you in Aug 09. It does not matter how long she holds ILR for, if she does not fulfil the residence criteria. You options as I can see are

1) Wait for eight more months and apply together
2) Apply for yourself now and once you application is successfull immediately after that apply for your wife provided she was in UK exactly three years before the time of application.

Regards

jazbaati99 wrote:Hello

No your wife is not able to apply for naturalization with you in Aug 09. It does not matter how long she holds ILR for, if she does not fulfil the residence criteria. You options as I can see are

1) Wait for eight more months and apply together
2) Apply for yourself now and once you application is successfull immediately after that apply for your wife provided she was in UK exactly three years before the time of application.

Regards

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Thanks a lot for your reply.

Please note that my wife is only a House Wife. If she applys later on then could you please advise how she can proof herself a resident for 3 or 5 years as she is not working anywhere and cannot provide any employer letter. She can only show her passport when she arrived in UK and thereafter she never left the country. How and what document will she need to support her residency in UK ?

Secondly what about my child under 18 years.. Does he also needs to be here for 5 years before he can apply for Citizenship or can apply with me in Aug 2009 ? If not then can my son and wife both apply together later on with one fee ?

Finally what do you recommend for them to get the Citizenship under partner of British Citizen (3 years rule) OR the dependents of HSMP waiting 8 more months.... Which worth more and easy....

I would appreciate your help in this regards.

HSMP 1+3+3

HSMP, you needn't worry about proving that's she's been here three years. The HSMP and ILR stamps in her passport prove that, so she shouldn't need to send in any employer letters or the like.

I would advise that when you do apply, you use NCS (Nationality Checking Service) as they will make sure your application and documentation is all correct. You would have to pay for this, but it's well worth it!

You and your wife would use form AN, your child would use form MN1, so no your wife and son can't use one form with one fee, sorry about that.

Shortest route for citizenship for you would be to apply for yourself now and your wife and child as soon as you have citizenship. If you want to pay the joint fee for you and your wife, you can wait eight months till they meet the requirements.

I am due to apply for naturalisation , one of my child is applying with me , i just need a confirmation on other child who born after we got ILR. I assume he can apply for passport as he is british by descent ? should i just use IPS for him?

Thanks Jazbaati99 for your reply. Anybody having differing views on my matter?

Emma84 wrote:HSMP, you needn't worry about proving that's she's been here three years. The HSMP and ILR stamps in her passport prove that, so she shouldn't need to send in any employer letters or the like.

I would advise that when you do apply, you use NCS (Nationality Checking Service) as they will make sure your application and documentation is all correct. You would have to pay for this, but it's well worth it!

You and your wife would use form AN, your child would use form MN1, so no your wife and son can't use one form with one fee, sorry about that.

Shortest route for citizenship for you would be to apply for yourself now and your wife and child as soon as you have citizenship. If you want to pay the joint fee for you and your wife, you can wait eight months till they meet the requirements.

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Thank a lot for Jazbaati99 and Emma expert advise. I will follow your advise.

Regards

Emma84 wrote:Shortest route for citizenship for you would be to apply for yourself now and your wife and child as soon as you have citizenship. If you want to pay the joint fee for you and your wife, you can wait eight months till they meet the requirements.

But he can probably make a joint application for him and his child now, and then wife will apply in 8 months' time. So he would pay joint + single fee rather than single + single + single ... correct me if I am wrong ..

Sten wrote:

Emma84 wrote:Shortest route for citizenship for you would be to apply for yourself now and your wife and child as soon as you have citizenship. If you want to pay the joint fee for you and your wife, you can wait eight months till they meet the requirements.

But he can probably make a joint application for him and his child now, and then wife will apply in 8 months' time. So he would pay joint + single fee rather than single + single + single ... correct me if I am wrong ..

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Hi Sten,

I would love to make joint application (Me & my Son) if possible and later on single for wife..... But I doubt if it's possible because my wife and son both will be short of 8 months at time when I apply for citizenship...

Any chance if my son can apply with me without completing 5 years as Sten hinted......(means with month short from 5 years)....

Please advise..

Many Thanks

The rule for dependant children under 18, is that they satisfy the 3 years resident requirement, i was given this information by NCS and its somewhere in the guidance.

It is indeed in the guidance notes for form MN1 that residence requirements for a child under 18 is 3 years. So yes, you child can apply with you HSMP, but the way I understand it is that you still have to fill out seperate application forms for him and yourself and pay the seperate fees.

Emma84 wrote:It is indeed in the guidance notes for form MN1 that residence requirements for a child under 18 is 3 years. So yes, you child can apply with you HSMP, but the way I understand it is that you still have to fill out seperate application forms for him and yourself and pay the seperate fees.

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Thank you so much for both Papafith and Emma84. Its really good news for me and little relief that atleast my son can apply with me for Citizenship.

I really appreciate everyboy's valuable advise.

Many Thanks

Emma84 wrote:It is indeed in the guidance notes for form MN1 that residence requirements for a child under 18 is 3 years. So yes, you child can apply with you HSMP, but the way I understand it is that you still have to fill out seperate application forms for him and yourself and pay the seperate fees.

Can you specify which section tells about 3 year child residence requirement . Looks wrong to me as per British Act 1981 section 1 (3)

(3) A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement who is not a British citizen by virtue of subsection (1) or (2) shall be entitled to be registered as a British citizen if, while he is a minor—
(a)his father or mother becomes a British citizen or becomes settled in the United Kingdom; and
(b)an application is made for his registration as a British citizen.

There are two cases:

1) Child born in the UK - gets citizenship when one of the parents get ILR - I do not think this 3years rule should apply at all

2) Child born outside of the UK - still what if he is 1.5 years or 2 years old, how can he fulfil that requirement if he was not even born at that point ? I feel something is not right here ...

2.3, page 17 of the guide MN1

I noticed that related to absences .. 270 days in a 3 year period, but I've probably missed the place where it says that the child should be in the UK for 3 years.

Again, what if the child 1-2 y.o. but born abroad, they can't naturalise till they are 3 y.o. ?

Papafaith wrote:2.3, page 17 of the guide MN1

Its about absences of child. May be more related to 10 year registration catagory. Not related to a child whose parent have become settled or British.

I successfully registered my son when he was around 1 year old (after I got my citizenship) so I don't think three years residency requirement applies to the child. If I am not mistaken, your son will be reigstered under section 3(1) (or was it 1(3)). It is on discretion i.e. not automatic but the last guidance notes that I read states that discretion would normally be applied if one parent is British and other has a settled status.

I am not sure if there are any fees savings by applying together as it would be a separate application and separate fees? but not too sure.

I would recommend that you apply for yourself first and after your successful application apply for your wife and son together.

Regards

jazbaati99 wrote:I successfully registered my son when he was around 1 year old (after I got my citizenship) so I don't think three years residency requirement applies to the child.

Yes there is no residency requirement for child whose parent(s) is/are british or settled.

jazbaati99 wrote: If I am not mistaken, your son will be reigstered under section 3(1) (or was it 1(3)).

Yes it 1(3)

jazbaati99 wrote:It is on discretion i.e. not automatic but the last guidance notes that I read states that discretion would normally be applied if one parent is British and other has a settled status.

Not true . Its an entitlement of child not a discretion of secretery of state.

jazbaati99 wrote: I am not sure if there are any fees savings by applying together as it would be a separate application and separate fees? but not too sure.

I would recommend that you apply for yourself first and after your successful application apply for your wife and son together.

Regards

No mother and child can not join their application as they have to pay seperate fees.

HSMP where was your child born? If the child was born outside the UK it would be a 3(1) application and that is a discretion. If birth is in UK to parents who are now settled it would be 1(3) and that is an entitlement. In my case, my son was born in Pakistan so the application was under 3(1).

Moreover by together I meant apply at the same time but ofcourse separate applications and separate fees.

Thanks for the clarifications.

jazbaati99 wrote:HSMP where was your child born? If the child was born outside the UK it would be a 3(1) application and that is a discretion. If birth is in UK to parents who are now settled it would be 1(3) and that is an entitlement. In my case, my son was born in Pakistan so the application was under 3(1).

Moreover by together I meant apply at the same time but ofcourse separate applications and separate fees.

Thanks for the clarifications.

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Jazbaati99,

My son was born in Pakistan but as he is here for more then 4 years therefore I will make his citizenship application with my application as you said child under 18 years needs only 3 years residency requirements.

I will apply for my wife separately once I am British Citizen.

Thanks

Hello,

I have a small query. I got my and my dependent's ILR on 6 July 2009 under the HSMP Judicial Review Judgement. I got a letter from the Home Office back-dating my ILR to October 2008. However, that letter only has my name on it and not of my dependents. My dependents will be completing 5 years in UK by that time too. I am wondering if the absence of their names on that letter backdating my ILR will affect their naturalisation application. I would all of us to be applying together.

Regards

OB

Hi
a little case history

1- I along with my dependents (son and wife) obtained back dated ILR from 04/10/2008 under JR
2- son was born in UK in 2007
3- wife will complete 3 years in UK in November 2009
4- we are expecting our 2nd baby around December 2009 time

What would be the best combinatin to apply for citizenship to save time, effort and money.

Please let me know if you need any further information.

Thanks