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button2007
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AFTER EEA2 RESIDENCE CARD

Post by button2007 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:36 pm

Hello everyone, I have been reading alot of cases in the Immigration boards and find it very helpful and wondered if anyone is able to help with a question i have. I know this may be long but can anyone help

My husband is a non EU CITIZEN and has recently received his EEA 2 Residence card at the end of April 2009, we would like to know where we stand now because we have used the European Law and we have been told by legal advisers that after 2 years of using his EEA 2 Residence card we would be able to change to using British Law as I myself am British.
Is this possible?

Also we traveled recently to my husbands home for a holiday, upon returning we were questioned about my husbands EEA2 Residence Card,
Why did my husband have an EEA2 when I am British?

I explained that we had been resident in Europe and also married in Europe and also our daughter born in Europe, so we had used European law, and once we arrived in Britain I was able to contact Home Office an was adviced to continue with the European law as that is what we had used in the beginning.
The Chief Officer was informed and on the gentlemans return with our passports, he in the end said it was ok and that we were ok to go, and they also STAMPED my husbands PASSPORT.

Any advice please

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Post by OmarA » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:42 pm

huh, strange, if you are british citizen and your husband is not eu citizen, then he shouldnt have EEA2 residence card.

button2007
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Post by button2007 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:23 pm

as i said before we did not live in the uk til may 2008, we lived in Europe before and when we applied in Europe for my husband to enter the uk, we used EU directive 2004/38/EC, European law not the British law.

I was excersising my treaty rights in Europe, paid taxes also.
They asked for all payslips while i worked there and contracts of work and also contracts from our home, which we were in rent.
they also asked for all of this here in the uk when we applied for my husbands EEA2 Residene card last year.

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Post by Rozen » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:46 pm

DELETED
Last edited by Rozen on Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Rozen » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:46 am

Rozen wrote:
OmarA wrote:huh, strange, if you are british citizen and your husband is not eu citizen, then he shouldnt have EEA2 residence card.
Ofcourse he can/should have a Residence Card! Depending on the circumstances. Nothing 'strange' about it at all. According to OP's explanation, her husband obviously obtained the EEA2 Residence Card under the Surinder Singh ruling. :!:

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Post by Rozen » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:47 am

DELETED!

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:00 am

OmarA wrote:huh, strange, if you are british citizen and your husband is not eu citizen, then he shouldnt have EEA2 residence card.
As long as a British citizen has been exercising treaty rights in another EU member state, they can bring their family to the UK on the basis of EU law. This is from the Singh ruling in front of the ECJ. It is also well described in the UKBA web site.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:08 am

button2007

Why would you want him to change to UK law? It is possible, but it would be expensive and difficult and I am not sure why you would want to do it.

Your husband has a Residence Card as a family member of an EU citizen. If you are ever questioned about this, you should mention the ECJ’s Singh ruling. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... ional-law/ for more details.

I am also curious. What exactly was stamped into your husband’s passport and who did it?

button2007
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Post by button2007 » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:38 pm

I contacted a legal adviser and they advised me that after 2 years i my husband should change to using the uk law.

I am not sure why!

In his passport they stamped the date of entry after our holiday.

Also is it possible for my husband to travel to his home on his oqn, as i asked the officer at the uk border agency where we were stopped and he said that it would not be a problem!!

We would like to know for sure before my husbands goes as we do not want him to run into trouble at the airport if i am not with him

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Post by DFDS. » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:34 pm

OmarA wrote:huh, strange, if you are british citizen and your husband is not eu citizen, then he shouldnt have EEA2 residence card.
Surinder Singh Please!
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

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Post by DFDS. » Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:47 pm

button2007 wrote:I contacted a legal adviser and they advised me that after 2 years i my husband should change to using the uk law.

I am not sure why!

In his passport they stamped the date of entry after our holiday.

Also is it possible for my husband to travel to his home on his oqn, as i asked the officer at the uk border agency where we were stopped and he said that it would not be a problem!!

We would like to know for sure before my husbands goes as we do not want him to run into trouble at the airport if i am not with him
Have you cited any problem so far, which suggests that your husband should switch to UK domestic law? if not, its a matter of 5yrs' waiting, then he qualifies for permanent residency. Am i right?
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

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Post by Obie » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:59 pm

button2007 wrote:I contacted a legal adviser and they advised me that after 2 years i my husband should change to using the uk law.

I am not sure why!

In his passport they stamped the date of entry after our holiday.

Also is it possible for my husband to travel to his home on his oqn, as i asked the officer at the uk border agency where we were stopped and he said that it would not be a problem!!

We would like to know for sure before my husbands goes as we do not want him to run into trouble at the airport if i am not with him
As directive suggested, your husband is better off on EEA resident card, as it is a cheaper, less hassle and straight forward. Except if you want your husband to get Indefinite Leave in two years and get naturalise within 3 years, i will suggest you stay on resident card.

The immigration Officer was wrong to stamp your husband's passport as it is in violation of Article five of the directive.

If you want your husband to apply under UK law, he would have to leave the UK and apply from the country you came from. It could cost you in excess of about £1,500 excluding flight cost, and he would have to pass the life in the UK test before he will get the indefinite leave.

Your husband can travel on his own provided you are in the UK, should the immigration officer wishes to check you are still leaving in the country with him .This is not routine, it is random.

I suggest you weigh the options.

button2007
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Post by button2007 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:53 am

What about british passport(when could he apply for this).

We have been in a relationship since september 2003, living together in another European country since March 2004 and married since August 2005 and also a little girl born November 2007, would none of this come into account for applying for my husbands british passport.

this really is our issue right now, as we do not know where we stand .

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:09 am

Your husband needs to have PR in the UK. He will have that 5 years after he arrives under the EU rules. I think he then needs to wait one year, and then he can apply for British naturalization. The fee for naturalization is then expected to be only £7925.00 (sorry - bad joke).

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Post by Obie » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:00 pm

button2007 wrote:What about british passport(when could he apply for this).

We have been in a relationship since september 2003, living together in another European country since March 2004 and married since August 2005 and also a little girl born November 2007, would none of this come into account for applying for my husbands british passport.

this really is our issue right now, as we do not know where we stand .
It is entirely up to you madam. If you want your husband to naturalise quicker, he would have to leave the UK and apply for a spousal visa valid for 2 years under UK law from the country you came from, because he was lawfully resident there, he doesn't need to go to his home country. Like i said that will cost you a pretty penny.

After 2 years he will have to pass the life in the UK test and then will be granted Indefinite Leave to Remain.

A year after he has obtained the ILR he can apply for British passport.

The advise that you were given ,that after 2 year your husband can apply under British rule is wrong, i'm afraid. He can do that anytime.

Can i also inform you that anytime you and your husband spent in the UK before he was granted resident card will count towards the 5 years requirement for Permanent Resident card.

I am afraid the British will only take into account the time after which you husband had permanent right to reside in the UK. The other factors you mentioned will not be considered.

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Post by DFDS. » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:21 pm

Obie wrote:
button2007 wrote:What about british passport(when could he apply for this).

We have been in a relationship since september 2003, living together in another European country since March 2004 and married since August 2005 and also a little girl born November 2007, would none of this come into account for applying for my husbands british passport.

this really is our issue right now, as we do not know where we stand .
It is entirely up to you madam. If you want your husband to naturalise quicker, he would have to leave the UK and apply for a spousal visa valid for 2 years under UK law from the country you came from, because he was lawfully resident there, he doesn't need to go to his home country. Like i said that will cost you a pretty penny.

After 2 years he will have to pass the life in the UK test and then will be granted Indefinite Leave to Remain.

A year after he has obtained the ILR he can apply for British passport.

The advise that you were given ,that after 2 year your husband can apply under British rule is wrong, i'm afraid. He can do that anytime.

Can i also inform you that anytime you and your husband spent in the UK before he was granted resident card will count towards the 5 years requirement for Permanent Resident card.

I am afraid the British will only take into account the time after which you husband had permanent right to reside in the UK. The other factors you mentioned will not be considered.
Obie am sorry for hijacking the OP's thread, just want you to throw more light on >CAN I ALSO INFORM YOU THAT ANYTIME YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND SPENT IN THE UK BEFORE HE WAS GRANTED RESIDENT CARD WILL COUNT TOWARDS THE 5YRS. REQUIREMENT FOR PERMENENT RESIDENT CARD<




Regards.
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

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Post by DFDS. » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:51 pm

delete!
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

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Post by Obie » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:04 pm

DFDS. wrote: Obie am sorry for hijacking the OP's thread, just want you to throw more light on >CAN I ALSO INFORM YOU THAT ANYTIME YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND SPENT IN THE UK BEFORE HE WAS GRANTED RESIDENT CARD WILL COUNT TOWARDS THE 5YRS. REQUIREMENT FOR PERMENENT RESIDENT CARD<
Regards.
What i am trying to emphasise is that if for example, her husband was given an EEA family permit which is valid for 6 months, and after that six months he applied for a resident card which took a further 6 months or more to be confirmed. This will add up to 1 year before he receives the resident card.

After 4 years of being on Resident card, he can apply for Permanent Resident card. Permanent Resident card is Issued five years after the couple entered the UK having exercised a treaty rights abroad and not after the resident card was issued.

He can however choose not to apply for resident card and applied for permanent resident card 5 years after they entered the UK , with allowance given to less than 6 months they spend abroad in a year after they entered the UK. That is within their rights.

I hope i make sense.

You have to remember that the Resident card only confirms the right to reside in the UK as a family member of EU national and not a granting of such rights.

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Post by DFDS. » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:18 pm

Obie wrote:
DFDS. wrote: Obie am sorry for hijacking the OP's thread, just want you to throw more light on >CAN I ALSO INFORM YOU THAT ANYTIME YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND SPENT IN THE UK BEFORE HE WAS GRANTED RESIDENT CARD WILL COUNT TOWARDS THE 5YRS. REQUIREMENT FOR PERMENENT RESIDENT CARD<
Regards.
What i am trying to emphasise is that if for example, her husband was given an EEA family permit which is valid for 6 months, and after that six months he applied for a resident card which took a further 6 months or more to be confirmed. This will add up to 1 year before he receives the resident card.

After 4 years of being on Resident card, he can apply for Permanent Resident card. Permanent Resident card is Issued five years after the couple entered the UK having exercised a treaty rights abroad and not after the resident card was issued.

He can however choose not to apply for resident card and applied for permanent resident card 5 years after they entered the UK , with allowance given to less than 6 months they spend abroad in a year after they entered the UK. That is within their rights.

I hope i make sense.

You have to remember that the Resident card only confirms the right to reside in the UK as a family member of EU national and not a granting of such rights.
http://www.ukresident.com/forums/suppor ... 93985.html
Have alook at SAMX's post!
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

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Post by DFDS. » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:30 pm

In SAM X's post paragraph 3, he is trying to make an analysis about applying for PR, where he brings in the issue of when the 5yrs resident begins to count. According to him its from when you apply for EEA2, no matter how long you have been a resident. Is he right?
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

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Post by Obie » Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:58 pm

DFDS. wrote:In SAM X's post paragraph 3, he is trying to make an analysis about applying for PR, where he brings in the issue of when the 5yrs resident begins to count. According to him its from when you apply for EEA2, no matter how long you have been a resident. Is he right?
DFDS i couldn't find Sam X's post therefore i can't comment on it. If however it state that, i will disagree. Article 16 of the directive which i am attaching to this post states that once Union Citizens have been resident in a member state for 5 years legally( which means no deportation order on grounds of Public Policy, Health or Security), they are entitle to permanent resident certificate or Card if it applies to the Non-EEA family members. It doesn't say 5 years after a Resident Card has been issued.

The Home office will try to suppress people from knowing this or people might think they have to wait until their resident card is expired, but this is certainly wrong.

I know about 3 people who have managed to obtain their permanent resident card through this means.

The person will need to show evidence like tax returns, College letter, Tax assessment over this five year period. If it is proven, then they are entitle to it. Hands on my heart.

The resident card is one of the evidence you can use to prove you have lived in the UK five years, but not the only one.

I hope i have explained it properly.


http://europa.eu/eur-lex/pri/en/oj/dat/ ... 350048.pdf

button2007
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Post by button2007 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:16 pm

Hi there thank you all for your input, but pretty confusing, sorry.

We applied for eea2 the end of July 2008, and received eea2 the beginning of April 2009, so will this count as 1year already we have passed and that we have only 3 years left

Does my husband have to apply for ILR before he can apply for his British passport.

If the ILR does come before naturalistion (passport) does that mean my husband would have to go back to Europe where we were resident before and apply for ILR from there, If so why as he would be leaving his family here.
Are we not able to apply for the ILR here.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:21 pm

DFDS. wrote:In SAM X's post paragraph 3, he is trying to make an analysis about applying for PR, where he brings in the issue of when the 5yrs resident begins to count. According to him its from when you apply for EEA2, no matter how long you have been a resident. Is he right?
Your residence begins from the moment you arrive in the UK with your EU (normally non-UK but in this Singh case UK) family member.

Remember that you are not required to apply for a Residence Card (using form EEA2) and you are not required to apply for Permanent Residence Card. Your residence comes because of your relationship to the EU citizen and your arrival in the UK. The cards are both optional things. You can apply for british citizenship without having ever had either.

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Post by button2007 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:27 pm

Guru,

thank you for your reply.

So does this mean that my husband can apply for British citizenship for example next week,

If so then great, but how?

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Post by Obie » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:42 pm

button2007 wrote:Hi there thank you all for your input, but pretty confusing, sorry.

We applied for eea2 the end of July 2008, and received eea2 the beginning of April 2009, so will this count as 1year already we have passed and that we have only 3 years left

Does my husband have to apply for ILR before he can apply for his British passport.

If the ILR does come before naturalistion (passport) does that mean my husband would have to go back to Europe where we were resident before and apply for ILR from there, If so why as he would be leaving his family here.
Are we not able to apply for the ILR here.


ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain is under UK law , for spouse of British Citizen who have had a spousal visa under UK law for 2 years.), Permanent Resident is (EU Law, for Family members of EU citizens or "British Citizen who have worked in another member state and returned to Britain", and live in Britain for 5 years after return. Both categories have to live in UK for 5 years to qualify).
One year after qualifying for and receiving either of this, he is eligible for British passport.
If you arrived in the UK in July 2008 , after having exercised a treaty right in another member states, then July 2009 will count as one year, which means by July 2013, your husband will qualify for permanent resident as opposed to April 2014 which is a myth .
By 2014 he will be eligible for British Passport under EU law..

If however he leaves the UK and reapply under British Law , he will receive a spousal visa valid until 2011. If he passes his life in the UK test he will qualify for ILR in 2011 after the spousal has expired. In 2012 which is one year after he has been on ILR, he will qualify for citizenship.

Please note that you have to provide lots of evidence of resources, accommodation before your husband will be able to obtain Spousal visa.
You have to arrange substantial funds if you want to go this route, but it will mean he will acquire British Citizenship quicker.

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