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HSMP to Tier 1 - NO NI number

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

MSI GEEK
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HSMP to Tier 1 - NO NI number

Post by MSI GEEK » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:47 pm

I am planning to switch from HSMP to Tier 1

Inspite of having valid HSMP visa, I never travelled to UK to work because I doing well in a contract overseas and due to job maket conditions prevailing in the UK delayed my entry.

Now, I have enough previous earnings more than GBP 40k/annum to qualify for extension even though it was overseas earnings.

However, I do not have a National Insurance number. Will I qualify for extension if I do not have a NI number?

My contract ended a week ago and currently moving to UK under HSMP visa which I would like to extend into Tier 1 visa soon.

Is extension possible without National Insurance number?

Kindly share related experiences...

ChetanOjha
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Re: HSMP to Tier 1 - NO NI number

Post by ChetanOjha » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:31 am

MSI GEEK wrote:I am planning to switch from HSMP to Tier 1

Inspite of having valid HSMP visa, I never travelled to UK to work because I doing well in a contract overseas and due to job maket conditions prevailing in the UK delayed my entry.

Now, I have enough previous earnings more than GBP 40k/annum to qualify for extension even though it was overseas earnings.

However, I do not have a National Insurance number. Will I qualify for extension if I do not have a NI number?

My contract ended a week ago and currently moving to UK under HSMP visa which I would like to extend into Tier 1 visa soon.

Is extension possible without National Insurance number?

Kindly share related experiences...
I am affraid you need to apply again for Tier-1 unless you prove that you were employed by UK employer and was deputed outside UK.

monday
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Post by monday » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:20 am

HI
As advised above, you need to apply again. you can oly extend your visa while working in UK.

MSI GEEK
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Post by MSI GEEK » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:24 am

Thanks for your replies.

Suppose, I arrive in UK with HSMP visa stamped on my passport and then apply for extension to Tier 1 as I look for or find a suitable job.

Overseas earnings are considered for extension applications - however, there is no uplift ratio applied.

For an extension application, an applicant needs to be UK but is it required to have all previous earnings made in UK?

If, during the period for which we are considering the applicant’s previous earnings, he/she has earned money from outside the United Kingdom, he/she can include these in the calculation to score points for earnings. The applicant should provide details of the overseas earnings, in the original currency in which they were paid. The applicant should convert these earnings into pounds sterling by using the closing exchange rate on the OANDA website for the last day of the period for which he/she has claimed earnings in that currency.

We will not make any uplift calculations on overseas earnings for extension applications. The applicant must clearly show on the application form which of the earnings were made in the United Kingdom and which were earned overseas. We will add the pounds sterling value of these overseas earnings to any United Kingdom earnings. We will then consider the total figure against the points-scoring table above.

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Post by push » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:26 am

If that was possible, ppl would have got citizenship sitting in their countries. If you are on HSMP you need to be in UK and earning in UK to qualify for extension OR be employed by a UK company and be deputed in some other country (for short periods I suppose).
regards,
push
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MSI GEEK
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Post by MSI GEEK » Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:24 am

push_hsmp wrote:If that was possible, ppl would have got citizenship sitting in their countries. If you are on HSMP you need to be in UK and earning in UK to qualify for extension OR be employed by a UK company and be deputed in some other country (for short periods I suppose).
ILR/Citizenship needs altleast 5 years of Continuous stay in the UK.

HSMP/Tier 1 visa extension eligibilty is different.

In the extension for Tier 1 form, why have they mentioned overseas earnings?

If a person does not find a well paid job in the UK, he has every right to work in some other country and return to UK if his visa is still valid.

ILR/Citizenship criteria is different.

BTW, salaries in Uk are pathetic unless one keeps on contracting. It is the contractors that mint money in UK - not permanent employees.

That is why UK seeks cheap labour from Third World countries like India, etc.

I am not in UK , still easily earn more than Pound 40K/year.

Cut throat competition in Uk makes salaries very low in UK - that is why I dropped plans to come to Uk earlier.

Someone told that they do not apply UPLIFT RATIO for extension applications.

This is the official reply:

Yes, you can enter the UK anytime within the validity of your visa. However, you should be aware of the requirements to be granted an extension of stay as a highly skilled migrant. Further details can be found on our website www.workingintheuk.gov.uk.

Regards,
WPLTR

push
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Post by push » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:15 am

MSI GEEK wrote:ILR/Citizenship needs altleast 5 years of Continuous stay in the UK. HSMP/Tier 1 visa extension eligibilty is different.
True but are you suggesting you get HSMP/Tier-1, enter at the fag end of your VISA validity with hardly any earnings in UK and still be allowed to extend under the category? If that were so, it will be a great news for those waiting for the economy to improve.
MSI GEEK wrote:In the extension for Tier 1 form, why have they mentioned overseas earnings?
I presume it covers persons deputed to a country outside UK by his UK employer. HSMP/Tier-1 is for ppl who contribute to UK economy and intend to make UK as their residence.
MSI GEEK wrote:If a person does not find a well paid job in the UK, he has every right to work in some other country and return to UK if his visa is still valid.
Absolutely. No doubts about that. We are not discussing about movement in or out of UK BUT eligibility to extend without having worked at all in UK on initial leave.
MSI GEEK wrote:ILR/Citizenship criteria is different.
couldn't agree more
MSI GEEK wrote:BTW, salaries in Uk are pathetic unless one keeps on contracting. It is the contractors that mint money in UK - not permanent employees.
makes me wonder why do you want to come to UK then or extend ur VISA. Another contractor in making? nothing wrong with that though.
MSI GEEK wrote:That is why UK seeks cheap labour from Third World countries like India, etc.
cheap labour (unskilled) comes from EU countries and not from India, Pakistan or China. I dont see skilled ppl compromising on salary. Cost economics lead to out-sourcing of services and not to in-sourcing of skilled workers. There is a dearth of young, skilled workers in UK & US and therefore the open door policy.
MSI GEEK wrote:I am not in UK , still easily earn more than Pound 40K/year.
40k!! and you are boasting about it?? I dont know about the IT sector but thts 40% of the starting salary in Banking (Including Bonus).
MSI GEEK wrote: Cut throat competition in Uk makes salaries very low in UK - that is why I dropped plans to come to Uk earlier.
and you reckon the salaries have increased now? I mean if you are so negative about UK, why even bother to etend the VISA? Just curious to know - not castigating
MSI GEEK wrote:Someone told that they do not apply UPLIFT RATIO for extension applications.
Yes they dont.
MSI GEEK wrote:This is the official reply:

Yes, you can enter the UK anytime within the validity of your visa. However, you should be aware of the requirements to be granted an extension of stay as a highly skilled migrant. Further details can be found on our website www.workingintheuk.gov.uk.
Unfortunately it does not say anything.
regards,
push
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SKUK
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Re: HSMP to Tier 1 - NO NI number

Post by SKUK » Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:38 am

chetanojha wrote:
MSI GEEK wrote:I am planning to switch from HSMP to Tier 1

Inspite of having valid HSMP visa, I never travelled to UK to work because I doing well in a contract overseas and due to job maket conditions prevailing in the UK delayed my entry.

Now, I have enough previous earnings more than GBP 40k/annum to qualify for extension even though it was overseas earnings.

However, I do not have a National Insurance number. Will I qualify for extension if I do not have a NI number?

My contract ended a week ago and currently moving to UK under HSMP visa which I would like to extend into Tier 1 visa soon.

Is extension possible without National Insurance number?

Kindly share related experiences...
I am affraid you need to apply again for Tier-1 unless you prove that you were employed by UK employer and was deputed outside UK.
I don't think he can as I guess he only has a bachelor's degree. That's why he wants to have a crack at doing an extension from UK. Correct me if I am wrong Mr Geek.

Well you can give it a shot but be prepared to face a rejection with no rights to appeal if you have LTR on your passport. Good luck. Do let us know if you are successful though.

MSI GEEK
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Post by MSI GEEK » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:00 pm

Yes, I have only a Bachelor's Degree. Hence, I would like to visa extended rather a fresh application.

I was under the impression that one can extend HSMP to Tier 1

The only criteria being :

Applicant should be in the UK on HSMP visa (Entry possible anytime before visa expires)

He/she could even be unemployed in UK on the day the application is made.

Previous earnings from foreign countries are acceptable, however there is no UPLIFT RATIO.

It is a question of rules allowing or disallowing extension?

My question is:

Is previous earnings from overseas source ONLY adequate for extension?

Or

There is a mandatory UK component to previous earnings needed

Also, I do not want 5 bonus points for UK experience. Atleast 16K of the previous earnings must be in UK for 5 points for UK experience.

Also, I am planning to take up any job in UK (no matter what it pays) to add a UK component to previous eanings if the same is mandatory.

Also, have there been any case, someone has successfully applied for extension being UNEMPLOYED on the date of application.

push
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Post by push » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:50 pm

MSI GEEK wrote:Yes, I have only a Bachelor's Degree. Hence, I would like to visa extended rather a fresh application.

I was under the impression that one can extend HSMP to Tier 1

The only criteria being :

Applicant should be in the UK on HSMP visa (Entry possible anytime before visa expires)

He/she could even be unemployed in UK on the day the application is made.

Previous earnings from foreign countries are acceptable, however there is no UPLIFT RATIO.

It is a question of rules allowing or disallowing extension?

My question is:

Is previous earnings from overseas source ONLY adequate for extension?

Or

There is a mandatory UK component to previous earnings needed

Also, I do not want 5 bonus points for UK experience. Atleast 16K of the previous earnings must be in UK for 5 points for UK experience.

Also, I am planning to take up any job in UK (no matter what it pays) to add a UK component to previous eanings if the same is mandatory.

Also, have there been any case, someone has successfully applied for extension being UNEMPLOYED on the date of application.
Cant figure that out explicitely from the guidance note - either in favour or against. I guess (1) an email to HO could be useful or (2) Input from someone who has submitted extension application with similar circumstances could be of some use.
regards,
push
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MSI GEEK
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Post by MSI GEEK » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:30 pm

This is the reply received:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your enquiry.

There is no restriction of where the earnings come from or a requirement for them to be within the UK.


Yours sincerely,

(ST)

Immigration Group
UK Border Agency

If you intend to reply to this e-mail please ensure that you re-send all the information from your original enquiry.


-----Original Message-----
From: MSI GEEK
Sent: 03 August 2009 01:07
To: IND Public Enquiries
Subject: Tier 1 General EXTENSION application

Respected Sir/Madam,

My query is regarding Tier 1 (General) EXTENSION application.

Can an applicant's previous earnings be considered for a Tier 1 (General) EXTENSION application if they have ALL been from an overseas source ONLY?
i.e. all previous earnings (12 month period out of last 15 months) from overseas, not from UK? Is there any mandatory requirement that at least some component of previous earnings to be made in UK for a Tier 1 (General) EXTENSION application?

I do NOT wish claim 5 available points for UK experience.

Can an applicant's previous earnings be considered for a Tier 1 (General) EXTENSION application without any UK component?


Thanks & Regards,
(MSI GEEK)



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push
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Post by push » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:13 pm

I still hold a contrarian view but who cares. You now have a response from HO - Thats good news then.
regards,
push
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Premkumar99
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number

Post by Premkumar99 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:15 pm

get a police number

MSI GEEK
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Post by MSI GEEK » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:08 am

I recently got HSMP to Tier 1 Extension with Overseas Earnings ONLY - NO UK earnings.

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ashishashah
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Post by ashishashah » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:29 am

Ohhhhh....This is GREATTTT NEWS...So one can go to any country,work there,get paid ,and then come to UK at the end of HSMp/TIER 1 extension and extend their visa (provided that they have earned enough in other country)..

I still cannot belive it,as logically HSMP/TIER1 is issued to work in UK,but technically you can get away with this...

gotcha
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Post by gotcha » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:39 am

ashishashah wrote:Ohhhhh....This is GREATTTT NEWS...So one can go to any country,work there,get paid ,and then come to UK at the end of HSMp/TIER 1 extension and extend their visa (provided that they have earned enough in other country)..

I still cannot belive it,as logically HSMP/TIER1 is issued to work in UK,but technically you can get away with this...
Remember , you cannot apply uplift ratio though. MSI_GEEK has earned £40K without applying uplift ratio. Guidance note clearaly states it.

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Post by MSI GEEK » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:57 am

Working in countries like USA, Canada, Aus/NZ, one can easily earn equivalent of Pounds 40K/annum or more.

Ofcourse, working in third world country like India, one needs to earning around 30 lakh/annum to match 40K pound.

UK is and may always remain my LAST CHOICE. The attitude of many Brits makes one feel sick.

Many highly skilled pros from India leave India before of things like "YES BOSS" culture, dirty politics, rising in the company ONLY as per age and seniority, etc. Who can forget that India was a British colony and all the -ve points are also present in UK.

The rest of UK may be better, but Londoners are very rude and unfriendly.

gotcha
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Post by gotcha » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:04 am

MSI GEEK wrote:Working in countries like USA, Canada, Aus/NZ, one can easily earn equivalent of Pounds 40K/annum or more.

Ofcourse, working in third world country like India, one needs to earning around 30 lakh/annum to match 40K pound.

UK is and may always remain my LAST CHOICE. The attitude of many Brits makes one feel sick.

Many highly skilled pros from India leave India before of things like "YES BOSS" culture, dirty politics, rising in the company ONLY as per age and seniority, etc. Who can forget that India was a British colony and all the -ve points are also present in UK.

The rest of UK may be better, but Londoners are very rude and unfriendly.
You are sounding very arrogant here. Assuming you are Indian, feel bad about your attitude towards own country.

And about UK bashing, remember every country has +ves and -ves. And majority browsing this forum are living here or planning to live here.

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Post by ashishashah » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:14 am

Thanks..I am covered by HSMP JR ,so i guess i only need to show economic activity (but not sure if activity in UK or not)

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Post by gotcha » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:21 am

ashishashah wrote:Thanks..I am covered by HSMP JR ,so i guess i only need to show economic activity (but not sure if activity in UK or not)
Good luck then.

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Post by cheshiregoan » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:46 pm

MSI GEEK wrote:UK is and may always remain my LAST CHOICE. The attitude of many Brits makes one feel sick.
Then why even bothering to waste £820 to get a visa?
Please do not send me any Private Messages as I do not check these.

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Post by MSI GEEK » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:12 am

The average salary of an Indian in UK is GBP 25K/annum.
The average salary of an Indian in USA is USD 80K/annum.

I was suprised by the attitude of Brits on a recent visit to UK - of 21st century not very different from UK of 18th century. Could not believe how these Brits still carry the old attitude?

The stats say everything...

It is very easy to get a visa for the UK, very difficult for the USA - hence many are attracted to UK. Little do they realise, this world is much different.

CVs are filtered as per nationality, work status, etc. I was bluntly told that you cannot be considered for several jobs because of being "non-british"


DOUBLE STANDARDS of British Govt.

When they launched the PBS, they announced that those who earn more also pay more taxes and contribute to economy - hence biggest weightage to previous earnings for visa extension.

Then, they made it mandatory to have masters degree - zero points for bachelors to keep out the bulk of applicants. Even if a person has very high earning potential, he is not highly skilled if he does not have masters degree - violation of previous preaching.

They were taken to court last time, this change was NOT retrospective.

Now, they are introducing earned citizenship, etc. to further dampen the interest of migrants.

Immigration system fails to inspire the most highly skilled !!!

What these Brits like:

If you come looking for a job, come on your knees.

Attitude matters most in UK rather than performance, skills, experience, etc.

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Post by cheshiregoan » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:16 am

MSI GEEK wrote:The average salary of an Indian in UK is GBP 25K/annum.
The average salary of an Indian in USA is USD 80K/annum.
Where are quoting these figures from?
Please do not send me any Private Messages as I do not check these.

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Post by ashishashah » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:46 am

MSI GEEK wrote:
CVs are filtered as per nationality, work status, etc. I was bluntly told that you cannot be considered for several jobs because of being "non-british"
I am in UK on HSMP and i agree with your above point..Some times they are not upfront in saying this,but its very subtle

Cannot somment/agree on other points in your posts though

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Post by gotcha » Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:46 am

MSI_GEEK, I don't know what's your problem, but you need to get facts right first.

MSI GEEK wrote:The average salary of an Indian in UK is GBP 25K/annum.
Majority will disagree you, Whover in that band are very young to qualify for Tier1.
MSI GEEK wrote: The average salary of an Indian in USA is USD 80K/annum.
Source please. I know, majority of people go US through body shoppers who pay @ $60K , that's in boom time. People go to higher salary over the time.
MSI GEEK wrote: I was suprised by the attitude of Brits on a recent visit to UK - of 21st century not very different from UK of 18th century. Could not believe how these Brits still carry the old attitude?
Will you please give a example ?
MSI GEEK wrote: The stats say everything...
And what's that ?
MSI GEEK wrote: It is very easy to get a visa for the UK, very difficult for the USA -

I think, you have not heard about 18K H1B slots are still available.
MSI GEEK wrote: CVs are filtered as per nationality, work status, etc. I was bluntly told that
you cannot be considered for several jobs because of being "non-british"
Some jobs requires security checks, which requires min stay, and citizenship requirement in some cases. If what you are saying is true, no body on this forum would have got job.



DOUBLE STANDARDS of British Govt.
When they launched the PBS, they announced that those who earn more also pay more taxes and contribute to economy - hence biggest weightage to previous earnings for visa extension.

Then, they made it mandatory to have masters degree - zero points for bachelors to keep out the bulk of applicants. Even if a person has very high earning potential, he is not highly skilled if he does not have masters degree - violation of previous preaching.

They were taken to court last time, this change was NOT retrospective.

Now, they are introducing earned citizenship, etc. to further dampen the interest of migrants.

Immigration system fails to inspire the most highly skilled !!!

What these Brits like:

If you come looking for a job, come on your knees.

Attitude matters most in UK rather than performance, skills, experience, etc.
Every government has right of protecting it's citizens. When you are migrating a country, it's a big decision, and learn to be responsible for that, at least partially.

And I know many people in US complain about US immigration system,too. GC ques, citizenship ques etc.

Remember, there is nothing like free lunch. And leaving your country is big decision.

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