EEA Family Permit

Hi! I was hoping to get help here, will be much appreciated. I am originally from Latvia (part of EU), have lived and worked in UK for 3 years. My husband is from Ukraine and he has been in UK for 4 years.
I have submitted a visa application for his parents - my mother and father in law, because I have never met them and we don't have a chance to go to Ukraine now as I have just given birth to our daughter. We have received a Refusal of EEA family permit. The reason was that the Officer is not satisfied that they are dependent on the EEA national. I haven't stated that they depend on us, I simply noted that we will pay for their travel and other expenses and that they will not need to pay for the accommodation as we have a big house.
Is it true that independent parents cannot get a visa to come and visit their children and their first granddaughter in UK?!
It also says in the letter that we have a right to appeal under regulation 29 and 30. What do I need to write in the section Grounds of your appeal in the AIT 2 form? What other documents should I include? Is there a chance for them to get the Permit after appeal?
Thank you so much in advance!
Margarita

tiscenkom wrote:Hi! I was hoping to get help here, will be much appreciated. I am originally from Latvia (part of EU), have lived and worked in UK for 3 years. My husband is from Ukraine and he has been in UK for 4 years.
I have submitted a visa application for his parents - my mother and father in law, because I have never met them and we don't have a chance to go to Ukraine now as I have just given birth to our daughter. We have received a Refusal of EEA family permit. The reason was that the Officer is not satisfied that they are dependent on the EEA national. I haven't stated that they depend on us, I simply noted that we will pay for their travel and other expenses and that they will not need to pay for the accommodation as we have a big house.
Is it true that independent parents cannot get a visa to come and visit their children and their first granddaughter in UK?!
It also says in the letter that we have a right to appeal under regulation 29 and 30. What do I need to write in the section Grounds of your appeal in the AIT 2 form? What other documents should I include? Is there a chance for them to get the Permit after appeal?
Thank you so much in advance!
Margarita

You will need some proof of financial dependency on you/husband.


EUN2.6 Who are an EEA national’s family members?

The family members of an EEA national (part 7 of the EEA Regulations) include:


spouses or civil partners;
direct descendants of the EEA national or their spouse/ civil partner under 21;
dependent direct descendants of the EEA national or their spouse/ civil partner 21 and over;
dependent direct relatives in the ascending line eg. parents and grandparents of the EEA national or their spouse/civil partner.


EUN2.9 How do I establish dependency under the EEA Regulations?

The applicant must be wholly or mainly financially dependent on the EEA principal to meet his/ her essential needs in order to qualify for an EEA family permit. Whilst the following criteria are not in themselves grounds for refusal, they should be taken into consideration when assessing dependent relatives:


Whether there are any other close relatives in the country of origin from whom the family member receives material support. If a family member receives funds from the EEA national but, for example, is living in the same household as another relative who provides their food and accommodation, the family member cannot be said to need the financial support of the EEA national in order to meet his/ her essential needs.
Whether the family member leading an independent life. For example, if a direct descendent 21 or over is married (and especially if they have children), it may be questionable as to whether the EEA national is supporting the essential needs of both the family member and their spouse and children. In such cases additional attention should be paid to ensure that the financial essential needs of the family are being met by the EEA national.



http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/eunati ... t#13627143[/url]

tiscenkom wrote:Hi! I was hoping to get help here, will be much appreciated. I am originally from Latvia (part of EU), have lived and worked in UK for 3 years. My husband is from Ukraine and he has been in UK for 4 years.
I have submitted a visa application for his parents - my mother and father in law, because I have never met them and we don't have a chance to go to Ukraine now as I have just given birth to our daughter. We have received a Refusal of EEA family permit. The reason was that the Officer is not satisfied that they are dependent on the EEA national. I haven't stated that they depend on us, I simply noted that we will pay for their travel and other expenses and that they will not need to pay for the accommodation as we have a big house.
Is it true that independent parents cannot get a visa to come and visit their children and their first granddaughter in UK?!
It also says in the letter that we have a right to appeal under regulation 29 and 30. What do I need to write in the section Grounds of your appeal in the AIT 2 form? What other documents should I include? Is there a chance for them to get the Permit after appeal?
Thank you so much in advance!
Margarita

Am a bit confused here. Did you apply for a VISITOR visa or otherwise?

Going by what you said, seemingly they're just coming for a visit of not more than 90 days, right?

Much as Am aware, Ukraine is part of EU hence their nationals do not require a Visiting Visa (upto 90 days) for UK. I stand to be corrected tho.

If you are unable to provide proof that you husband's parents are either dependant on you or your husband, then i don't think there is a basis for an appeal.

Your only option will be appealing for a Famly UK visitors visa, using national rules, and there is a fee attached to that application.

To KKK01- Ukraine is not yet part of the EU.

This is interesting to me as it appears that there is a gap in the Directive here. The Directive covers pretty much all Family Members between Articles 2 and 3, but I am unsure why it states that Ascendants need to be dependent to benefit, particularly when only for a short visit.

Given the spirit of the Directive, I am sure this is not meant for Parents or Grandparents to be denied visits to see their children and grandchildren and is probably only set up that way for Residency purposes?

The Commissions Guidelines for Better Implementation (link below) does not offer any real help with this particular issue although it does mention in para. 2.1.2 those family members in the direct relatives in the descending and ascending lines without mention of dependency and as though they are treated the same.

kkk01 wrote:

tiscenkom wrote:Hi! I was hoping to get help here, will be much appreciated. I am originally from Latvia (part of EU), have lived and worked in UK for 3 years. My husband is from Ukraine and he has been in UK for 4 years.
I have submitted a visa application for his parents - my mother and father in law, because I have never met them and we don't have a chance to go to Ukraine now as I have just given birth to our daughter. We have received a Refusal of EEA family permit. The reason was that the Officer is not satisfied that they are dependent on the EEA national. I haven't stated that they depend on us, I simply noted that we will pay for their travel and other expenses and that they will not need to pay for the accommodation as we have a big house.
Is it true that independent parents cannot get a visa to come and visit their children and their first granddaughter in UK?!
It also says in the letter that we have a right to appeal under regulation 29 and 30. What do I need to write in the section Grounds of your appeal in the AIT 2 form? What other documents should I include? Is there a chance for them to get the Permit after appeal?
Thank you so much in advance!
Margarita

Am a bit confused here. Did you apply for a VISITOR visa or otherwise?

Going by what you said, seemingly they're just coming for a visit of not more than 90 days, right?

Much as Am aware, Ukraine is part of EU hence their nationals do not require a Visiting Visa (upto 90 days) for UK. I stand to be corrected tho.

Ukraine isn't part of EU and isn't likely to be!

TracyCK wrote:This is interesting to me as it appears that there is a gap in the Directive here. The Directive covers pretty much all Family Members between Articles 2 and 3, but I am unsure why it states that Ascendants need to be dependent to benefit, particularly when only for a short visit.

Given the spirit of the Directive, I am sure this is not meant for Parents or Grandparents to be denied visits to see their children and grandchildren and is probably only set up that way for Residency purposes?

The Commissions Guidelines for Better Implementation (link below) does not offer any real help with this particular issue although it does mention in para. 2.1.2 those family members in the direct relatives in the descending and ascending lines without mention of dependency and as though they are treated the same.

I think the OP applied for wrong visa, should have applied for UK visit visa not EEA FP which is not applicable here since the OP's family are not dependants and not applying as dependants.

Wanderer wrote:

TracyCK wrote:This is interesting to me as it appears that there is a gap in the Directive here. The Directive covers pretty much all Family Members between Articles 2 and 3, but I am unsure why it states that Ascendants need to be dependent to benefit, particularly when only for a short visit.

Given the spirit of the Directive, I am sure this is not meant for Parents or Grandparents to be denied visits to see their children and grandchildren and is probably only set up that way for Residency purposes?

The Commissions Guidelines for Better Implementation (link below) does not offer any real help with this particular issue although it does mention in para. 2.1.2 those family members in the direct relatives in the descending and ascending lines without mention of dependency and as though they are treated the same.

I think the OP applied for wrong visa, should have applied for UK visit visa not EEA FP which is not applicable here since the OP's family are not dependants and not applying as dependants.

Unfortunately, I agree with you but I suspect that they should be able to apply for the EEA Family Permit without the need of dependency. However, any Member State wishing to make things difficult and get those extra fees (seems like pretty much all of them) is going to follow this one to the letter until when or if it is clarified.

TracyCK wrote:

Wanderer wrote:

TracyCK wrote:This is interesting to me as it appears that there is a gap in the Directive here. The Directive covers pretty much all Family Members between Articles 2 and 3, but I am unsure why it states that Ascendants need to be dependent to benefit, particularly when only for a short visit.

Given the spirit of the Directive, I am sure this is not meant for Parents or Grandparents to be denied visits to see their children and grandchildren and is probably only set up that way for Residency purposes?

The Commissions Guidelines for Better Implementation (link below) does not offer any real help with this particular issue although it does mention in para. 2.1.2 those family members in the direct relatives in the descending and ascending lines without mention of dependency and as though they are treated the same.

I think the OP applied for wrong visa, should have applied for UK visit visa not EEA FP which is not applicable here since the OP's family are not dependants and not applying as dependants.

Unfortunately, I agree with you but I suspect that they should be able to apply for the EEA Family Permit without the need of dependency. However, any Member State wishing to make things difficult and get those extra fees (seems like pretty much all of them) is going to follow this one to the letter until when or if it is clarified. :?

Extended Family Members need to be dependant that's fundamental, otherwise the entire family would be here!

Tracy, first of all i want to say i am very impressed at you relentless effort to bring about positive change in how the Spanish authority deals with Article 3 family members. I am with you on that all the step of the way and my prayers and support are with you.

I also found the case law you posted very interesting indeed.

In regards to this issue on this thread, the inlaws don't qualify for an EEA family permit, if they cannot provide evidence of dependancy (Then qualify as Article 2) or membership of the same household (then classified as Article 3). The only family members who don't have to prove dependancy are Spouse, Children under 21 or family members who have proved the live in the same household as the EEA nation or his or her spouse.

The following family members fall within the scope of eligibility for family reunification with an EU national who has exercised his/her right of free movement in another EU/EEA Member State:

• * Spouse
  * Registered partner
  * Regular cohabitant over 18 years of age
  * Direct descendants under 21 years of age (i.e. children, grandchildren, etc.) of the Danish national or of his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant
  * Direct descendants over 21 years of age (i.e. children, grandchildren, etc.) of the Danish national or of his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant if the descendants are dependent on the Danish national or on his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant
  * Relatives in the ascending line (i.e. parents, grandparents, etc.) of the Danish national or of his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant if the relatives are dependent on the Danish national or on his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant
  * Other family members (e.g. siblings, cousins, etc.) if they are dependent on the Danish national or are living under his/her roof in the country they come from
  * Other family members (e.g. siblings, cousins, etc.) if it is strictly required for serious health reasons that the Danish national provides personal care of the family members

In fact the list surprises me and I am wondering how Junior was blessed by all of us in http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=45402 using the above method in getting his mother and brother over to Germany under EU law.

eldane wrote:The following family members fall within the scope of eligibility for family reunification with an EU national who has exercised his/her right of free movement in another EU/EEA Member State:

• * Spouse
  * Registered partner
  * Regular cohabitant over 18 years of age
  * Direct descendants under 21 years of age (i.e. children, grandchildren, etc.) of the Danish national or of his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant
  * Direct descendants over 21 years of age (i.e. children, grandchildren, etc.) of the Danish national or of his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant if the descendants are dependent on the Danish national or on his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant
  * Relatives in the ascending line (i.e. parents, grandparents, etc.) of the Danish national or of his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant if the relatives are dependent on the Danish national or on his/her spouse/registered partner/regular cohabitant
  * Other family members (e.g. siblings, cousins, etc.) if they are dependent on the Danish national or are living under his/her roof in the country they come from
  * Other family members (e.g. siblings, cousins, etc.) if it is strictly required for serious health reasons that the Danish national provides personal care of the family members

In fact the list surprises me and I am wondering how Junior was blessed by all of us in http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=45402 using the above method in getting his mother and brother over to Germany under EU law.

In Junior's case, both his Mother and his brother were not only dependent on him, of which he had evidence, but were also members of the same household, so they were both covered by EU Law.

They can hardly be member of the same household when Junior lived in Germany and the mother in the Dominican Republic.

It might be that they were dependent on him.

However.....

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/en/ecg/eunati ... t#13627125
EUN2.7 Who are an EEA national’s extended family members?

An extended family member of an EEA national is any other relative who meets one of the requirements listed in regulation 8 of the EEA Regulations.

An applicant may be considered for an EEA family permit as an extended family member if they are:

* residing in the same state in which the EEA national also resides and are dependent on the EEA national or are a member of the EEA national’s household; and
* accompanying the EEA national to the UK or wishing to join them there.

If the applicant does not meet both of these criteria, they can also be considered for an EEA family permit as an extended family member if they are:

* a relative of the EEA national or his spouse/ civil partner and on serious health grounds, require the personal care of the EEA national or their spouse/ civil partner; or
* a relative of the EEA national and would meet the requirements, other than those relating to entry clearance) in the Immigration Rules for indefinite leave to enter the UK as a dependent relative (paragraph 317) of the EEA national were the EEA national present and settled in the UK; or
* a partner of the EEA national (other than a civil partner) and can prove to the ECO that they are in a durable relationship with the EEA national.

Where the applicant can show that he/ she is the extended family member of an EEA national, the ECO may issue an EEA family permit if in all circumstances, it appears to the ECO appropriate to issue the EEA family permit. Therefore, an EEA family permit may be refused:

* where refusing the family member would not deter the EEA national from exercising his/her Treaty rights or would not create an effective obstacle to the exercise of Treaty rights;
* if the applicant would have been refused entry to the UK on general grounds for refusal had they been applying for entry under the Immigration Rules;
* maintenance and accommodation requirements aren’t met eg. the non-EEA national’s admittance would result in recourse to public funds.

Yeah I have trouble with that - to me dependent either means live in same house or live another house/country 100% paid for by the sponsor...

I think this thread may have gone a little off topic..... apologies for continuing that!

Junior's family were presumably part of his household until he moved to Germany, and from that point, were dependent upon him. Whether that depency was/is wholly, or in part is irrelevent.

I think the main problem here is that we are referring to Member States' own transpositions of the Directive rather than the Directive itself for clarification of beneficiaries and guidelines. It is a well known fact that not one Member State has managed to transpose th Directive into its National Legislation either correctly, nor in its entirity and the UK is one of the worst offenders of this.

However, in this topic, I sadly agree that although the UK could be a little more generous in their interpretation and allow Grandparents to come visit their Grandchildren via the EU route, the Directive doesn't specifically say that they have to, so they don't have to.

If the regular UK visit visa is subsequently denied however after a complete application is submitted and a fee paid, I think there could be some help available within EU Law to get it sorted dependent on the reasons for refusal. This would be reliant on the Commission's consistant statement that the Directive is about maintaining the family in a broad sense, etc...

Just two ticks.....

TracyCK, aren't you the one drumming up and down about the authorities responsibility according to EU legislation that they must advise and direct the EU citizen/or the one applying according to Directive 2004/38/EC towards the most appropriate route to obtain a visa?

So should the ECO not have advised the in-laws to apply for a regular family visitors visa instead of just fobbing them off?

Now, the OP is asking what she should put in the appeal form for the grounds of appeal. I would put all the reasons you think as well as referring to European human rights art. 12 as well as to EUN02 - EEA Family Permits and that you are not in violation of any of the conditions laid out in the section below hence you do not see any reason for the EEA permit being rejected:

Where the applicant can show that he/ she is the extended family member of an EEA national, the ECO may issue an EEA family permit if in all circumstances, it appears to the ECO appropriate to issue the EEA family permit. Therefore, an EEA family permit may be refused:

* where refusing the family member would not deter the EEA national from exercising his/her Treaty rights or would not create an effective obstacle to the exercise of Treaty rights;
* if the applicant would have been refused entry to the UK on general grounds for refusal had they been applying for entry under the Immigration Rules;
* maintenance and accommodation requirements aren’t met eg. the non-EEA national’s admittance would result in recourse to public funds.


You could also bluff a little telling that disallowing your family from visiting you will deter the EEA national (i.e you) from exercising your Treaty rights as your spouse can not accept living in the UK if his parents and grand parents of a common child can't be part of your life and your child's up-growing hence you will be forced to move from the UK hence you can't exercise your EU rights.

Thanks very much for all your posts, I will still try to appeal though! Will include some more documents like passport, payslips and employment contract to prove that I am exercising Treaty Rights here, as they did not have all of those document and it was mentioned in the refusal letter. I will add bank statements and will see that we do need to use public funds as well as we can financially support another family. Who knows, maybe the luck will be with us this time. Thanks again for all your help. If this does not go through will try Family Visit Visa

eldane wrote: So should the ECO not have advised the in-laws to apply for a regular family visitors visa instead of just fobbing them off?

Yes, I think that they should have done. I forgot to pick up my beating stick and bang the drum on that one...

Now, the OP is asking what she should put in the appeal form for the grounds of appeal. I would put all the reasons you think as well as referring to European human rights art. 12 as well as to EUN02 - EEA Family Permits and that you are not in violation of any of the conditions laid out in the section below hence you do not see any reason for the EEA permit being rejected:

Where the applicant can show that he/ she is the extended family member of an EEA national, the ECO may issue an EEA family permit if in all circumstances, it appears to the ECO appropriate to issue the EEA family permit. Therefore, an EEA family permit may be refused:

* where refusing the family member would not deter the EEA national from exercising his/her Treaty rights or would not create an effective obstacle to the exercise of Treaty rights;
* if the applicant would have been refused entry to the UK on general grounds for refusal had they been applying for entry under the Immigration Rules;
* maintenance and accommodation requirements aren’t met eg. the non-EEA national’s admittance would result in recourse to public funds.


You could also bluff a little telling that disallowing your family visiting you is deter the EEA national (i.e you) from exercising your Treaty rights as your spouse can not accept living in the UK if his parents and grand parents of common child can't be part of yur and your child's up-growing hence you will be forced to move from the UK hence you can't exercise your EU rights.

OP - I think that eldane has outlined the basis of a good appeal for you here. You can establish the family link and by their own guidlines, there really isn't reason to refuse the Permit. I haven't done a lot of research into dependent family members and am not dealing with the UK, but it makes sense to me.

What's the point in appealing - the OP applied for an EEA FP for the Gramps for which they are plainly not entitled. Appeal is pointless, user error not HO error. UK visit visa is the correct visa here isn't it?

People, stop thinking that 'The Directive' is the bible! It's more like a Jeffery Archer novel, uninteresting, of limited value and nobody with a life reads it!

Wanderer, we are all entitled to think what we want and that encludes you.

That the applicant applied for an EEA family clearence should have triggered the ECO to guide the applicant to chose another route, which he did not.

In my country of nationality, Denmark, it is by law that public authorities must guide the citizen how to get the optimum outcome of laws and regulations.

After having lived in Spain for 3 years and the UK for 6 years I can sadly confirm that in Spain I got all the requiered guidance when consulting public authorities. However, appealing and complaining over authorities was more than a pain.
In the UK theres a tendency not to offer any guidance. Try writing to Border agency asking for advise... Yeah, you better prepare yourself for a looooong wait. If you should ever get an answer at all. I have never got any reply to any of my emails, letters or phone calls. The only answers I have got was when my MP wrote to the Border agency: But god! Did he ever comprehend the actual problem or question? Never! I got answers in East when I was asking in West. Basically just wasting the Border agency's time which could have been spend much wiser on case work.
However, appealing and complaint procedures are by miles better than in Spain.

What I am getting at is that UK gov and institutions and in this case UKvisas under the Border agency are lousy to implement EU case law and you got to admit that.

eldane, thanks for your advice!
I also agree that in the case of applying for a wrong visa they could have informed me about that. So why did the Officer write that we have the full right of appeal under regulation 29 and 30 if it is known that we are applying for a wrong type?!

Just a quick update on the subject:

I did appeal and went to a hearing at the Immigration Tribunal. My appeal was successful.
After hearing that I had indicated the purpose was visiting and being satisfied they had their reasons to come back to Ukraine (house, jobs, animals and etc.), the judge has confirmed: it was obvious that the reason for application is a family visit. She has insisted that they should have explained or at least mention that I should have applied for a family visa instead of EEA permit in their refusal. She has allowed appeal, the decision was: I direct that the appellants be issued with the necessary visas as soon as reasonably practicable.
This has saved our time (we did not need to make a new application for the appropriate visa, undergo all the checks again), after receiving this decision, my parents-in-law brought their passports to the embassy, paid the fee and after about 10 days they had received them back with visitors' visas!
So, Thank you so much for your help and advice!

Hello Everyone.
I need urgent advice. I am indian national.I am married to an EU national. we both living and working in UK for nearly 5 years. I have 5 year residence card and my wife is exercising her treaty rights. I want to apply for EEA family permit for my parents. Now the situation is like this. To apply for eea permit my parents need to be dependent on me. They are not dependent on me financially but they are fully dependent on me physically. I have family life here as well.In last one year I had to go there for 4 months to help them as they are old and weak. They suffer from lot of disease. My father had two operation of cancer:( . I have two sisters in India but they live far away from home. My situation is if they will not be issued this visa so I will have to go there permanently. This will ruin my future life here. Can some one please help me out in this situation.Are there any chances that they will get EEA family permit.

Thank you