Urgent, please advise if you can. Appointment on Thursday 21

My sister is married to a British citizen. She has the 2-year FLR(M) visa which will expire in April/2010 (she will apply for ILR before its expiry).

She usually travels by train from London to Moscow and back (scared of flying). She has an appointment at the French embassy this Thursday 21 January and having looked at their website it states that British residency visa should be valid for at least 3 months from the end of validity of the requested Schengen visa.
Am I correct to suspect that they could apply the same rule to her, regardless of the fact she is the spouse of an EU naional?

This is clearly a problem. What is the way out? She already has had 2 visas issued to her, by the Finnish Embassy in 2008 and the French embassy in Jan 2009 for 6 months and free of charge (as it should be).

However, I am concerned that this time they will make a fuss due to her UK visa nearing the end. She only needs the visa for 3 weeks now, and probably would even pay if required, even if it's transit visa really, is this the only way out?

Any practical advice would be appreciated.

Can she argue that Article 5(2) of the Directive 2004/38 kind of overrides, or takes her outside the requirement as the passport itself is valid till 2012, it's only the FLR(M) which expires in April.

"Family Members who are not nationals of a
Member State shall only be required to
have an entry visa in accordance with
regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where
appropriate, with national law. For the
purpose of this Directive, possession of the
valid residence card referred to in Article
10 shall exempt such family members from
the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons
every facility to obtain the necessary visas.
Such visas shall be issued free of charge as
soon as possible and on the basis of an
accelerated procedure."

P.S.
Just a query, what if they originally got married and settled in Russia (she wouldn't have had the UK visa at all) and wanted to travel and visit France? She wouldn't have had to pay for a visa and wouldn't have had the UK visa in the first place anyway, so in the same situation, they shouldn't really refuse?

The bottom line is, would should she do?

That's great guys, noone even made an effort to answer or advise, thanks a lot. With all the expertise displayed on the forum, you would expect at least someone to attempt, but no.

Surely, now there will be plenty of replies to this note, defending the lack of response and condemning my ungratefulness.

datuchi, have you a chip on the other shoulder as well?

I just read your first post and I was going to reply, but then I saw your second.

That's cool, predictable comment. Will somehow sort it out myself, thank you very much.
i have worked out the basic position that she derives her rights from the marriage and not from the visa in the passport, just thought the idiots who annoy me to death at the French embassy, arrogant bastards, may take an issue with that.

As for the rest, please keep your comments, unless directly pertinent to the issue at hand to your sulky self. Especially that it's a bit late now isn't it? All the replies are void from 2pm onwards.

How can I remove this whole topic, any ideas?

benifa wrote:datuchi, have you a chip on the other shoulder as well?

I just read your first post and I was going to reply, but then I saw your second.

datuchi wrote:i have worked out the basic position that she derives her rights from the marriage and not from the visa in the passport

I assume your sister is entering France in the accompany of, or to join, her husband?

Are you Russian by any chance - haha!

I've done loads of threads where no-one has answered, I don't take it personally or feel I should have an answer, or berate people for not responding.

Yes and no. Her husband is waiting for his Russian visa. If he gets it in time, they will travel together, if not- she will travel alone and he will join her later. Anyway, she's at the embassy now, don't know if they will make a fuss.

benifa wrote:

datuchi wrote:i have worked out the basic position that she derives her rights from the marriage and not from the visa in the passport

I assume your sister is entering France in the accompany of, or to join, her husband?

It's very-very complicated but you could say I am russki.

Could you also tell from my attitude?

It's just frustrating not to get answers to questions. I have posted a couple and they are mostly tricky queries with technical stuff- never got answers to those, only the basic queries which anyone knows about are discussed, really.

Anyway, hope the French don't frustrate my sis, they pissed me off last time I went there to get the visas for my parents- dependants of EEA national in the ascending line. Asking for a flipping marriage certificate of my parents, when I presented them with the birth certif, naming them both as my parents. They really are quite arrogant there, treating everyone around us (probably including my parents as well) like cow manure

Wanderer wrote:Are you Russian by any chance - haha!

I've done loads of threads where no-one has answered, I don't take it personally or feel I should have an answer, or berate people for not responding.

datuchi wrote::lol: It's very-very complicated but you could say I am russki.

Could you also tell from my attitude?

Yes! I like it actually, face to face it's honest and forthright - opposite to US style false niceness, but online it doesn't really work - comes across as rude!

Actually I have an American friend in Chelyabinsk, Russia teaching the locals American customer service, his life must be sheer hell....

datuchi wrote:Yes and no. Her husband is waiting for his Russian visa. If he gets it in time, they will travel together, if not- she will travel alone and he will join her later. Anyway, she's at the embassy now, don't know if they will make a fuss.

benifa wrote:I assume your sister is entering France in the accompany of, or to join, her husband?

You should note that your sister will only be entering France in accordance with the provisions of Directive 2004/38/EC if she does so either the company of her husband or to join him there.

If she will be entering France without her husband and not to join him there, your sister will not be entering in accordance with the provisions of the Directive.

In short, if the latter is true, your sister's entry to France will be subject to the usual Schengen rules as implemented by the French - she will not be able to rely on EC law.

ok, the Mother F$%&s only claimed to give her the visa till 7 March??? As her FLR (M) expires on 8 April?? Where are they coming from? What on earth? They said she needs to have her UK visa valid for at least a month from the end of validity of Schengen visa... What about when they decide to come back on 10th March? If they apply at the embassy there, would anyone even enquire about where they are going etc. they'll give her the visa free etc...

PISSED OFF BIG TIME!!!!!

datuchi wrote:What about when they decide to come back on 10th March?

You say "they".

Your sister's Schengen visa has been issued and will be valid until 7th March. Correct? By this time, will her husband by with her? If so, Directive 2004/38/EC then applies.

If so, she and he will have the right to remain in France (or in another Member State) for up to three months, without any conditions or formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid passport. The fact that her Schengen visa will have expired is not an issue, once her husband is present.

(Sigh) yes... I know all THAT!!! I can advise you on this myself, if you wish. I am talking about IF they are travelling together etc. coming back from Russia, through Poland etc and in general to avoid a headache, she needs/wants a visa.


An update: she somehow persuaded them to make an exception to their "guidelines" and they gave it to her till the 15th March, don't see any logic in this at all.

benifa wrote:

datuchi wrote:Yes and no. Her husband is waiting for his Russian visa. If he gets it in time, they will travel together, if not- she will travel alone and he will join her later. Anyway, she's at the embassy now, don't know if they will make a fuss.

benifa wrote:I assume your sister is entering France in the accompany of, or to join, her husband?

You should note that your sister will only be entering France in accordance with the provisions of Directive 2004/38/EC if she does so either the company of her husband or to join him there.

If she will be entering France without her husband and not to join him there, your sister will not be entering in accordance with the provisions of the Directive.

In short, if the latter is true, your sister's entry to France will be subject to the usual Schengen rules as implemented by the French - she will not be able to rely on EC law.

Yes, but again, they intend to return on the 9th (or 10th) from Russia, entering through Warsaw, right? At the border there and even before leaving Russia in general, in order to avoid hassle, it is recommended to have a visa. Can you imagine them arguing about their rights et al.

Moreover, she would have had to cancel her current visa which is(if it were)valid till 7th March at the French embassy, then go to the polish embassy and the process there takes more than a day or two, believe me. They're only going for 3 weeks, not a perfect way to spend a holiday running to and fro the embassies!

Why not simply avoid the headache and get that creapy visa in advance. They would have gone to the Polish embassy there anyway, right? so, what's the effing difference if they did it there and then and not in one go now?

France by not issuing the Schengen visa to my sister are indirectly preventing her British husband from exercising his FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT of FREE MOVEMENT!
End of

benifa wrote:

datuchi wrote:What about when they decide to come back on 10th March?

You say "they".

Your sister's Schengen visa has been issued and will be valid until 7th March. Correct? By this time, will her husband by with her? If so, Directive 2004/38/EC then applies.

If so, she and he will have the right to remain in France (or in another Member State) for up to three months, without any conditions or formalities other than the requirement to hold a valid passport. The fact that her Schengen visa will have expired is not an issue, once her husband is present.

since people don't take it personally here, how will my rudeness affect anyone?

And it's not rude, it's as you said straight to the point asking people where they are when they are needed. I can't underestimate the importance of this and other fora, I am sure many people's lives have been changed by thee, but, it's simply frustration building up when one is cornered.
Now that I'm out of the corner, I can discuss the current issues with a cool-head, without a chip on a shoulder...

Wanderer wrote:

datuchi wrote: It's very-very complicated but you could say I am russki.

Could you also tell from my attitude?

Yes! I like it actually, face to face it's honest and forthright - opposite to US style false niceness, but online it doesn't really work - comes across as rude!

Actually I have an American friend in Chelyabinsk, Russia teaching the locals American customer service, his life must be sheer hell....

datuchi wrote:(Sigh) yes... I know all THAT!!! I can advise you on this myself, if you wish.

..and yet you still say:

datuchi wrote:France by not issuing the Schengen visa to my sister are indirectly preventing her British husband from exercising his FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT of FREE MOVEMENT!
End of

Your rudeness to people who spend their personal time trying to help you is frankly quite appalling. Go figure it out yourself. I'm done.

Может быть по-блату!!!

Я Ñ

alright, alright, safe blad...

benifa wrote:

datuchi wrote:(Sigh) yes... I know all THAT!!! I can advise you on this myself, if you wish.

..and yet you still say:

datuchi wrote:France by not issuing the Schengen visa to my sister are indirectly preventing her British husband from exercising his FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT of FREE MOVEMENT!
End of

Your rudeness to people who spend their personal time trying to help you is frankly quite appalling. Go figure it out yourself. I'm done.

mozhet bit' i po blatu, no ya v etom nikakogo smisla ne vizhu.

Honestly, how can I remove the whole topic off this forum?



[quote="Wanderer"]Может быть по-блату!!!

Я Ñ

datuchi wrote:My sister is married to a British citizen. She has the 2-year FLR(M) visa which will expire in April/2010 (she will apply for ILR before its expiry).

She usually travels by train from London to Moscow and back (scared of flying). She has an appointment at the French embassy this Thursday 21 January and having looked at their website it states that British residency visa should be valid for at least 3 months from the end of validity of the requested Schengen visa.
Am I correct to suspect that they could apply the same rule to her, regardless of the fact she is the spouse of an EU naional?

This is clearly a problem. What is the way out? She already has had 2 visas issued to her, by the Finnish Embassy in 2008 and the French embassy in Jan 2009 for 6 months and free of charge (as it should be).

However, I am concerned that this time they will make a fuss due to her UK visa nearing the end. She only needs the visa for 3 weeks now, and probably would even pay if required, even if it's transit visa really, is this the only way out?

Any practical advice would be appreciated.

Can she argue that Article 5(2) of the Directive 2004/38 kind of overrides, or takes her outside the requirement as the passport itself is valid till 2012, it's only the FLR(M) which expires in April.

"Family Members who are not nationals of a
Member State shall only be required to
have an entry visa in accordance with
regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where
appropriate, with national law. For the
purpose of this Directive, possession of the
valid residence card referred to in Article
10 shall exempt such family members from
the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons
every facility to obtain the necessary visas.
Such visas shall be issued free of charge as
soon as possible and on the basis of an
accelerated procedure."

P.S.
Just a query, what if they originally got married and settled in Russia (she wouldn't have had the UK visa at all) and wanted to travel and visit France? She wouldn't have had to pay for a visa and wouldn't have had the UK visa in the first place anyway, so in the same situation, they shouldn't really refuse?

The bottom line is, would should she do?

You can just edit ur posts and remove the text, but really it spoils it for others and destroys the flow of the query.

However me quoting means u have to ask me to delete ur bit now - I've had loads of requests by PM to do it when I've quoted before and I just ignore them.

Best to just let it die, this is not the USSR!

BTW I have Zemfira's latest Albom, stolen off the internet in true Russian style! Khochesh'?

I meant to delete the whole bloody thing including the heading in the main index, but that's fine, let the rest read through. What's the latest album called? Were you thinking of posting the thing to me? :)) Although I really like Zemfira, have you heard: "London's Sky"?

Good memories with that one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e01X6TWA ... re=related

Wanderer wrote:

datuchi wrote:My sister is married to a British citizen. She has the 2-year FLR(M) visa which will expire in April/2010 (she will apply for ILR before its expiry).

She usually travels by train from London to Moscow and back (scared of flying). She has an appointment at the French embassy this Thursday 21 January and having looked at their website it states that British residency visa should be valid for at least 3 months from the end of validity of the requested Schengen visa.
Am I correct to suspect that they could apply the same rule to her, regardless of the fact she is the spouse of an EU naional?

This is clearly a problem. What is the way out? She already has had 2 visas issued to her, by the Finnish Embassy in 2008 and the French embassy in Jan 2009 for 6 months and free of charge (as it should be).

However, I am concerned that this time they will make a fuss due to her UK visa nearing the end. She only needs the visa for 3 weeks now, and probably would even pay if required, even if it's transit visa really, is this the only way out?

Any practical advice would be appreciated.

Can she argue that Article 5(2) of the Directive 2004/38 kind of overrides, or takes her outside the requirement as the passport itself is valid till 2012, it's only the FLR(M) which expires in April.

"Family Members who are not nationals of a
Member State shall only be required to
have an entry visa in accordance with
regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where
appropriate, with national law. For the
purpose of this Directive, possession of the
valid residence card referred to in Article
10 shall exempt such family members from
the visa requirement.
Member States shall grant such persons
every facility to obtain the necessary visas.
Such visas shall be issued free of charge as
soon as possible and on the basis of an
accelerated procedure."

P.S.
Just a query, what if they originally got married and settled in Russia (she wouldn't have had the UK visa at all) and wanted to travel and visit France? She wouldn't have had to pay for a visa and wouldn't have had the UK visa in the first place anyway, so in the same situation, they shouldn't really refuse?

The bottom line is, would should she do?

You can just edit ur posts and remove the text, but really it spoils it for others and destroys the flow of the query.

However me quoting means u have to ask me to delete ur bit now - I've had loads of requests by PM to do it when I've quoted before and I just ignore them.

Best to just let it die, this is not the USSR!

BTW I have Zemfira's latest Albom, stolen off the internet in true Russian style! Khochesh'?

Live-2, it's another Live album. It's not great actually now I've decided!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e01X6TWA ... re=related



Nice 1.