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France to UK without visa posibility

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

bluecole2
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France to UK without visa posibility

Post by bluecole2 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:37 am

Hi guys

I'm an illegal immigrant living in the UK. I've just recently got married and applied for rc but it was returned based on the fact I don't have a passport. Although, I was asked to reapply when I get a passport.

The problem is I don't have a passport and it's almost impossible to get it from my embassy for some reasons.

However I've got plan to return to my country, apply for a passport and French visa  and re-enter UK from France. I've been advised by 2 solicitors that I can re-enter as long as my wife is with me.

All this because my wife and I can't cope without being with each other for as long as it will take the British embassy to issue a family permit, especially as I've been in the UK illegally.

My question is: 
Can I travel to UK from France (train or flight or bus) without a visa? At least up to entry point in UK.

Will I be able to pass security in France without a visa? Do they check for visa?

Even if they do, will our marriage cert. and other prove we live together be enough to let me travel to UK with my wife?

Thanks for reading and I look forward to your valued advice.

ca.funke
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Re: France to UK without visa posibility

Post by ca.funke » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:52 am

Hi bluecole2,

to answer your questions it´s necessary to know your and your wife´s nationalities :!:

Regards, Christian

skele
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Post by skele » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:09 pm

Hi bluecole2,

You might have a chance with another EU country but France is a nightmare, if you're expecting them to follow EU regulations forget it.
I'm a British citizen living in France, my husband is here legally, we tried to go to the UK just for a visit for Christmas and they would not let him get on the plane. He has the residence card and we took marriage certificate and everything else just in case. Under the EU rulings, like your solicitors say you should be able to get through but that would be reliant on EU member states upholding the laws of the EU which they most definitely do not. I would suggest trying another country, perhaps Holland? I know that France, Spain, Italy and possibley Germany are a no go but then you don't know until you try.

Good luck.

bluecole2
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Post by bluecole2 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:54 pm

Gratitude Christain, Skele

My wife's French and I'm Nigerian and thats my reason for lookings to apply for French visa and enter UK via France.

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Post by ca.funke » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:16 pm

Is your wife working or self-sufficient? If so, you fall under 2004/38/EC.

In this case you cannot be deported from the UK, which is something good to start with.

Next, I wonder why you can´t get a passport from the Nigerian Embassy? It should be possible somehow?

Can you prove by other means that you are Nigerian? If so (but here I´m not sure) there should be a way to get British residency (and after 3 years of legal residency British citizenship, which should solve all your immigration-problems).

I hope that someone has more details on using 2004/38/EC without passport...?

Good luck!

bluecole2
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Post by bluecole2 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:37 pm

Yes she's working. Employed with 2 jobs.

Nigerian embassy is complicated. They asked for police report for lost passport even though I clearly explained that I never had one as I was brought to UK as a child and without a passport that's mine.

I've also got an interview over 6months away from now to apply for passport and anOther 6mknths or more for rc with ukba. That's why I decided to try that route back in to UK.

skele
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Post by skele » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:18 pm

If your wife's French and working in the UK then she is exercising her treaty rights in another EU country so once you get your passport you should be able to travel to the UK from Nigeria with her, no need to go to France. Although there should be an easier way to go if you can somehow get your passport and just stay in the UK, but definitely no need to go to France which believe me is a good thing!

El shaddai
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Post by El shaddai » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:41 pm

The easiest way for you is to keep pressing the Nigerian embassy to issue you a new passport. Going to France without valid document doesnt make any sense i think. good luck

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:47 pm

If you have a genuine and ongoing marriage, and your partner is an EU citizen who is working in the UK, then you are most likely in the UK legally right now. I would suggest you do not leave the UK without very carefully considering the risks and costs of doing so - you may end up separated from your wife and having to spend a lot of money to get back to the UK.

If you have never had a Nigerian passport, then the Nigerian embassy should be able to verify that. Keep onto them. But in any case keep detailed records of who you talked with, what they said.

If the Nigerian govt will not issue you with a passport, you may be able to get a UK issued certificate of travel. See http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/while ... eoftravel/ Once you have that you might be able to apply for a Residence Card.

bluecole2
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Post by bluecole2 » Fri May 13, 2011 7:43 pm

Thanks guys!

I've been battling with my embassy. I managed to get the appointment for this month. Although, still having trouble completing an app because they (embassy) wanted to confirm the letter I got from ukba before they will process my app for passport.

Unfurtunately, the response I got is that my letter was fake and HO can't confirm they sent it to me. I was pissed and don't understand why my embassy work hand in hand with the HO.

I don't know if they will honour what's in the eea 'directives' should I print a copy and take it to the embassy.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri May 13, 2011 8:35 pm

bluecole2,

Contact your local MP. They may be able to help. They have good contacts with the home office.

Say you have received a letter from the home office, but your embassy believes it is not genuine. Ask if they could contact the embassy in regard to the letter.

What exactly does the letter from UKBA say?

bluecole2
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Post by bluecole2 » Thu May 19, 2011 6:47 pm

I've been going to the mp since my app was returned. I think the mp response (writing ti ukba) is slow or perhaps I'm impatient.

When ukba returned my app they included a letter(below) with no reference no. I believe ukba would have requested a passport rather tgan return my app if I'd used a lawyer. Anyway the letter is as follows:

I am writing with regard to your recent request for a residence card under the immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.

As you may be aware there are a number of ways that a third country national can be entitled to a residence card. These include being the family member (such as a spouse or civil partner) of an unmarried partner) of a Union citizen who is currently a worker, self employed, a self sufficient person or a student. Equally the EEA regulations contain provisions for third country national to retain a right of residence in particular circumstances such as following divorce from the Union citizen provided certain criteria are met.

Unfurtunately, the submitted documents are insufficient to establish that you have a right of residence under the 2006 Regulations in any of the ways outlined above. I am therefore returning them to you with this letter. This letter will indicate what additional documents/evidence you need to provide should you wish to re-apply for a Residence Card. A further application can be made using EEA2 application form available from the UKBA website via the following link:-

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/eucit ... ropeanlaw/

Please note that this is not a formal determination of your status under the Regulations. Our purpose in returning the documents is to enable you to assemble a complete dossier of supporting evidence and to submit this with a fresh application when you are in a position to do so. In the meanwhile we will not be giving any further consideration to your case.

To establish a right of residence, and therefore eligible for a residence card, the following additional evidence will be needed:-

[] Evidence of identity (B)
- Your original valid passport or IND ARC;

Please remember to enclose a latest pay for your EEA national sponsor when re-submitting the application.

Once you are in a position to supply all the evidence required to support the application, please re-submit the form and up to date evidence to the address detailed above. Please ensure that original documents are provided as copy will not be accepted.

Failure to submit original documents and up to date evidence may result in the application being returned again.

bluecole2
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Post by bluecole2 » Thu May 19, 2011 6:56 pm

Oh yeah I forgot to say that I was shown list of names of people they (embassy) contacted ukba to confirm there letters.

Only about 3 out of about 20 names got an right tick and I wasn't one of those with the right tick.

Both the embassy and ukba staffs are senseless. I asked the embassy staffs 'how do you expect ukba to confirm a letter with no reference no?' It's impossible, I said. But they said my name and address is on it so it should be a problem.

I don't know if the ukba say they can't confirm the letter or it's fake as the embassy told me. Nevertheless, ukba should have returned my app with a letter lacking a reference no. And they'll probably won't be able to confirm it even if there's a reference no. That's how inefficient they (ukba) are.

I'm p**sed cause my app should have been over 2 months in Tge queue by now and I should be looking at 2 to 4 months to go.
Last edited by bluecole2 on Thu May 19, 2011 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu May 19, 2011 6:59 pm

bluecole2,

How do you prove who you are in everyday life?

e.g. What did you show when you got married?
When you got a driver's license?
To apply for a passport?
To open a bank account?

It is very interesting that UKBA is willing to accept an UKBA ARC (Asylum "Application registration card") in addition to a passport. This is a document that is not set out in the prerequisites of the Directive or of the UK transposition.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu May 19, 2011 7:02 pm

bluecole2 wrote:Oh yeah I forgot to say that I was shown list of names of people they (embassy) contacted ukba to confirm there letters.

Only about 3 out of about 20 names got an right tick and I wasn't one of those with the right tick.
You are saying that the embassy contacted UKBA about 20 different names? And only 3 were ok? Very odd! Were all these people applying for passports?

bluecole2
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Post by bluecole2 » Thu May 19, 2011 7:12 pm

I've got an IS.96 paper (with my picture in it) ukba served me when I was arrested back in 2009 for immigration offence.

I haven't got a driving licence and I opened an account with a medical card ages ago.

And yes I believe all the 20 names are applying for passport.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu May 19, 2011 7:16 pm

So what ID did you use when you married?

What did you send UKBA as part of the Residence Card application to prove who you were?

bluecole2
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Post by bluecole2 » Thu May 19, 2011 10:11 pm

I sent the IS.96 paper with my CoA app as I was told it's my ID and it's the same paper I sent with the rc app that was rejected.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri May 20, 2011 2:54 am

What ID did you present to the priest or council before you actually got married? Where else have you officially used your IS.96?

You should have mentioned this a long time ago! Not sure why you are being coy here...

bluecole2
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Post by bluecole2 » Mon May 23, 2011 9:46 pm

Other than the CoA itself, the ID I used at the registry to give notice of marriage is the IS.96. I haven't got any other form of ID at the moment.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed May 25, 2011 12:51 am

If I were in your position (though I am not)...


If I were in your position, I would want UKBA to issue me a Residence Card and then I would use that to go and get a passport. Or I would like UKBA to hint to the Nigerian embassy that I am not illegal in the UK so I can get a passport so I can get a Residence Card.

I would first of all involve Solvit. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/help-eu-solvit/ I would be sure that Solvit understands that you are legally married to an EU citizen who is working and that we are both resident in the UK. I would say I have a catch-22 situation, and need there help in getting the Residence Card issued or in UKBA talking with the Nigerian embassy.

If that does not work, then I would submit another Residence Card application to UKBA. I would state clearly in it that UKBA has previously recognized my IS.96 when I applied for the COA. That I have the right to live and work in the UK, but am prevented from doing so because UKBA has refused to issue me with a Residence Card. That without the Residence Card or another indication that I am legally in the UK, the Nigerian embassy will not issue me with a passport.

I would close with: "I request UKBAs help in issuing the Residence Card as soon as possible so that I can get a passport, or in facilitating the issue of a new passport by the Nigerian Embassy so that I can then apply for a Residence Card."

That is probably what I would do...

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu May 26, 2011 7:49 pm

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... dlaw/ecis/

CHAPTER 2 - RIGHTS OF NON-EEA NATIONAL FAMILY MEMBERS OF EUROPEAN ECONOMIC AREA (EEA) NATIONALS
3.3 Applicants not producing a passport
We may exercise discretion and issue a residence card where the applicant proves his/her identity by producing a Home Office issued identity card (i.e. an ARC card) or where the applicant produces another form of conclusive evidence that s/he is a family member of the EEA national (see 4.3 below).

Where an applicant produces a Home Office issued identity card that corresponds to the person named on the marriage certificate, we can be satisfied that the individual is the family member of an EEA national and, provided we are satisfied that the marriage is not one of convenience (see Chapter 5) and we are satisfied that the EEA national is a qualified person or has a permanent right of residence under the 2006 Regulations, we would issue a residence card. Where a residence card is issued on this basis, the applicant’s previous immigration files should be checked for confirmation that the applicant is the rightful holder of the Home Office issued identity card.
Last edited by Directive/2004/38/EC on Fri May 27, 2011 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Europe immigration forum

Post by ptrlee » Fri May 27, 2011 12:17 pm

As far as I know this all depends upon the Nationality of the person.

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Re: Europe immigration forum

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri May 27, 2011 2:08 pm

ptrlee wrote:As far as I know this all depends upon the Nationality of the person.
What depends on nationality?

bluecole2
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Post by bluecole2 » Sat May 28, 2011 9:18 pm

Thanks Directive/2004/38/EC, much Gratitude!

I called mp this week, was told I got a letter on the way but was told ukba said I have to get a passport in order for them to issue a rc which I already know and was told to take this letter to the embassy.

On the other hand, I'm still battling with my embassy going there every other day to find out if they've got a response from ukba as it's 2 weeks on friday since I last produce the letter that was sent with CoA for marriage and my previous letter took about 2 week to confirm.

However I very much hope they (embassy) got confirmation by Tuesday. If not I'll probably use the mp- ukba correspondent, if I get it on time as I get it about 3-4 week (from date on letter) this year which is very unusual. If not I'll do as you've said above. Thanks for your concern Directive/2004/38/EC

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