Brother supporting Fiancee Visa ok?

Will UBA accept if my brother would support (meaning he would write a letter to state that and pass evidence) my fiancee to live 6 months in the UK? Or I must be supporting her myself totally? Can the supporter be somebody else than me? (My brother does not live in the UK but has an excellent income and bank account history so that would work.)

So I have to only show that I am able to support the first 6 months or longer than that? I would think 6 months is enough, because in reality she would start to work herself after that surely.

there is not stopping you . you say you have a ticket to africa , pretty vague. Last week this was a woman you had not met then she has become yr girl friend now yr fiancee .
On a serious note why not keep all yr posts together and I would think support from someone not in the UK would not be accepted .

No.

mulderpf wrote:No.

This was not obvious, because with visitor visa I was told others support would be acceptable. So there is other kind of thinking with this kind of situation.

"I would think support from someone not in the UK would not be accepted"

So if he was in the UK it would be ok? That would be a bit strange...why would the distance make any difference. Money goes throught the banks regardless what is the distance!

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... vilpartne/

To get a fiancee visa the parties must have met. She would also need to show her ability in English.

You also have to intend to marry her.

Third party support is usually provided by family members, not from someone who has never met the person involved and who will not even be in the same country. Remember it has to be credible, it seems incredible to me. I wouldn't provide six month's accommodation and living expenses to an Internet squeeze of my brother's that he has never met.

If your finances are this bad, what about hers? Can she show she has enough money to support herself?

PaperPusher wrote:http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/polic ... vilpartne/

To get a fiancee visa the parties must have met. She would also need to show her ability in English.

Both will be ok.

PaperPusher wrote: You also have to intend to marry her.

yes

PaperPusher wrote: Third party support is usually provided by family members, not from someone who has never met the person involved and who will not even be in the same country.

My brother could meet her if thats a problem. My brother is one of the closest to me, so I would think he is as close as any "family member". I can say, that he is closer than many families father -son relations/... or any family relationships! If I have something important, he is the one I normally first call.

PaperPusher wrote: Remember it has to be credible, it seems incredible to me. I wouldn't provide six month's accommodation and living expenses to an Internet squeeze of my brother's that he has never met.

But he can meet her. I think I would propably help my brother in a similar situation if he needed help from me... Although its true that I would like to meet her first.

The law may be like you said, but I dont think its a good law then. Why your own very close brother could not help you?? I mean, if supporting is allowed, obviously a brother who lives in another country should also be allowed to help. What on earth the distance has to do with this??? My brother cannot send the money to me because of the distance?? My brother is not my brother if he lives further than 1000km from me? Whats the limit when he is not anymore my "good friend"? Sound ridiculous to me...

The thing is (in reality) that my brother does not lie to me. So if he says that he will provite support (if needed) then he would! He will keep his words. But this of course also means that he very carefully examines the situation and maybe want to meet her etc.

PaperPusher wrote: If your finances are this bad, what about hers? Can she show she has enough money to support herself?

My money situation is slowly improving also. She hasnt got enough money.

"not from someone who has never met the person involved and who will not even be in the same country."

Just out of interest: I dont really understand whats the point having this kind of law? If somebody legally promises to take care of my fiancee, what does it matter who he is? Even if he is my worst enemy... Its a legal paper, and if I need money I can then ask from him to get the support. So legally speaking everything should be ok?? She does not need benefits, because this supporter is legally bound to provide the money, isnt it? What does it matter who he is. Dont understand...

Dont get me wrong, not attacking forum ppl...but am complaining about the law if it this way makes life difficult. But again, if you can give a good logical explanation why that law is good, then am ready to take back my sayings. waiting...

mulderpf wrote:No.

I just contacted one immigation firm who give legal help/advice for Visas and they said that brother helping to support in Visa is possible. Hmmm. so who to believe . They are just looking my case now....

Let's hope you're not wasting your money on poor advice then. The reason you can't use someone living outside of the UK for 3rd party financial support is due to the fact that if they default, it would be impossible to enforce it. Not everyone is as reliable and trustworthy as your brother may be.
Ah...I've remembered the situation now. You were considering applying for a fiancee visa to use the 6 months as a trial to see if you got on or not...and if not, you would 'send her back'.

Casa wrote:Let's hope you're not wasting your money on poor advice then. The reason you can't use someone living outside of the UK for 3rd party financial support is due to the fact that if they default, it would be impossible to enforce it. Not everyone is as reliable and trustworthy as your brother may be.

Yes, thats a risky especially because some companies asking £900. I cannot really risk that much if there is no guarantee.

I was in contact with "no win no fee" company. They were not so exited, but did not say no neither. Said "thats a bit more tricky"...

Well if they want to try, I might let them try. There might be ways to do it (like brother sending the money to my account etc.)...

How about my friend in the UK who has money, can he be my supporter? Or supporter must be a relative?

Casa wrote: Ah...I've remembered the situation now. You were considering applying for a fiancee visa to use the 6 months as a trial to see if you got on or not...and if not, you would 'send her back'.

Of course I check *any* woman (even if met them in the UK face to face) till the day I say "I will"! The whole reason getting married/dating before that is that you can cancel it at *any time* before marriage. Marriage means something...

Yes, I am full on planning to marry after that 6months... but still, if not married, there is always small possibility not to marry. This applies to any woman and any situation.

When you say "I will", then you make promice to keep the goverment.

Like for example: lets say that during the 6 months I find out that somebody who I am dating/if my my fiancee, has a criminal activity from last year... well, I would definitely then cancel. Those are things I cannot possibly know, because its impossible to know everything. But things can open sometimes...

What I mean, is that if she is what I have know her to be, then yes I will marry. But if I find something totally different, then things can change. But this is with all relatioships, nothing to do with marriage.

When you say "I will", then you make promice to keep the goverment. What on earth does that mean? Keep the goverment (sic) what?
You won't be able to get around the financial aspect by having your brother 'transfer' funds into your account. The origin of all finances are checked by the ECO as they're aware that money is often deposited to make an application look good by family members or friends and then withdrawn once the application is approved.
It would be advisable to 'get to know' your fiancee before bringing her into the UK. At present you appear to know very little about her...including being 'unsure' as to whether she had ever married the father of her child (i.e proof of divorce needed or not). Let's hope she knows more about you if she's interviewed for the fiancee visa or you'll lose your application fee.

Casa wrote:When you say "I will", then you make promice to keep the goverment. What on earth does that mean?

covenant, promise

When you say "I will", you are verbally *promising* to keep the covenant with your other part and not divorce.

Casa wrote: You won't be able to get around the financial aspect by having your brother 'transfer' funds into your account. The origin of all finances are checked by the ECO as they're aware that money is often deposited to make an application look good by family members or friends and then withdrawn once the application is approved.

I did not say transfer... I said, that putting it on application "my brother will support me by transferring money ...."

"she had ever married the father of her child "

I know she has not.

Casa wrote:The origin of all finances are checked by the ECO ..

This is what I also wonder: How they think that having "normal salary" from a company by working 8 hours a day if the strong proof of income? Because I dont even that one is... someone could tell their boss to increase temporary their salary to get more money and then decrease it after 6 months. Totally legal but as "immoral" as friends putting money on somebodys account. I mean, come on... nothing is 100% sure when proving somebodys money situation. Almost everything can be faked, so I dont understand why "having a constant normal salary" is the strong evidence. Even that has a lot of problems...

So I dont think any of these really prove much...

But there is a way to prove you have the funds: Give it to UBA as full amount, and the fiancee takes funds from there!! So putting £5000 aside for 6months on a secured account.

Oh, but this could mean that many people are able to do that and too many people are able to come to Britain... .

In my opinion, its not fair that people who REALLY have that money are refused because of they "think they dont have the money". I am not agaist refusals with real/proper reasons, but reasons which are not real. and not based on fact... no.. Yes, leave criminals on the other side of the UK, but ...

Stating in the application that your brother will transfer the money to your account regularly won't make any difference to the ECO. It would still be impossible for the Home Office to enforce the transfers if your brother decided not to continue.
When you marry and say 'I will' by the way...in the UK it's not the Government you've taken out a covenant with...it's a promise to your wife.
I raised the point about whether your fiancee was ever married, as when you were asked this previously, firstly you were unsure...and then you 'remembered'. The ECO will look for indecisions such as this to unearth a relationship which isn't genuine.

Do you know something? I reckon it's best if you just do it your way as you say you're convinced that most things can be faked easily enough to convince an ECO.
Don't expect any help from the forum with this route though.

Casa wrote:Do you know something? I reckon it's best if you just do it your way as you say you're convinced that most things can be faked easily enough to convince an ECO.
Don't expect any help from the forum with this route though.

Logically speaking, If I am convinced that most of ways can be faked, that does not mean that I will do things my way or even that I am faking, isnt it? . Because I have *found* (finding something does not mean that I am doing it) a loop hole in the system, I should not get help on this forum??

No, I am just wondering why they trust very very strongly in some ways to show your income and not at all to some other. I was trying to say, that in both cases things can be faked if the person wants so.

For example, lets consider a situation where brother helps fiancee visa and gives money to me. It is certainly in many situations genuine thing!! Brothers tend to help others. Yes, some would fake, but some do it the right way. So saying that nobody helps their friends/brothers in this kind of situation is a bit "over the board" in my opinion. So there are genuine money transactions. So is there genuine salaries from works... and there are not genuine salaries and not genuine money gifts. I am trying to say, that in both there are genuine and non-genuine cases.

I hope there will arise better methods to solve this problem: How to make sure your fiancee does not use benefits. Yes, I agree fiancee should not live on benefirts, but would be nice if there would be other methods to ensure that. One could be simply sending her back to her country if the husband cannot pay her bills and maybe a money penalty to the one who invited her... whats wrong in that?

Casa wrote: When you marry and say 'I will' by the way...in the UK it's not the Government you've taken out a covenant with...it's a promise to your wife.

Yes, but thats what I was speaking about. If you promise something, you should keep your promise, isnt it? If you dont, then dont promise in the first hand.

YOu asked first, that why would I say no before marriage. I can say no, because I have not yet promised anything. I will promise, when I say "I will". Marriage situation is the real and final place to make that kind of promise, not before that.
I can say, that I strongly plan to marry, but still there is this smal change of cancellation. After marriage there is no cancellations...

Casa wrote:Let's hope you're not wasting your money on poor advice then. The reason you can't use someone living outside of the UK for 3rd party financial support is due to the fact that if they default, it would be impossible to enforce it. Not everyone is as reliable and trustworthy as your brother may be.

Interesting if you are right. Because this immigration company seems to be a big one. Are they then purposely lying just to make the money? Loss of £900 would be quite bad in time and money to me. Actually the total loss would be then £1700. Huge loss indeed for me, as am not so rich. Maybe to consider marrying in Africa instead and then come back if easier, but is that?

But as I said, there is another company with no win no fee. And its less, £700. If its really no win no fee, I might have them a go.

Actually, the good question here is, that would it be easier/cheaper to marry in Africa and then trying to get a marriage visa instead of getting fiancee visa to the UK? Am not very excited about the idea living in mosqitoe areas plus no proper internet connections etc. So I need help here.

"Am not very excited about the idea living in mosqitoe areas" and no internet connection? What happened to the modern life style your girlfriend has in a big city you've mentioned in previous posts? How does she communicate with you now? Internet?
By the way the poor woman isn't a package you're returning. Quote "One could be simply sending her back to her country if the husband cannot pay her bills" Your idea for an alternative method for the UKBA doesn't sound very compassionate does it?
I really think you're just rambling on now. As in your earlier threads which were eventually closed..you don't actually want advice from the forum. You simply want to hear that you're right...and that simply isn't going to happen.
Spend your money with the legal advisors...

Casa wrote:" Quote "One could be simply sending her back to her country if the husband cannot pay her bills" Your idea for an alternative method for the UKBA doesn't sound very compassionate does it?

compassionate or not but I think it would be pretty good. Also I do not understand that "she must have £120 weekly to live". Well, I think I have lived many months with like £60 for food and couple of other necessary things needed (washing powder etc.). Why does she need that extra £60 if she decides to live with a little money for couple of months?

"Spend your money with the legal advisors..."

This system is so complex, that everybody needs legal advisor. If you do not take legal advisor, its very likely your application gets rejected because of some small detail (which are impossiple for casual people to get right-because they are not used to legal formality/tricks). Its like somebody has been given to make a C++ computer program who is not so familiar with C++. You can bet the professional C++ programmers who judge that code are gonna "laugh" if they have to judge it according to C++ programming standards...

Like listen this testamony:
"My (now) husband applied before we were married and was refused because when asked in a phone interview "What date did you get engaged?" He honestly replied "We didn't do it on a specific date it just happened over a few months". "

Note: "He *honestly* replied...". So honesty is not rewarded, seems like.. . In any system, if honesty is not rewarded then I think something might be wrong in that system. This should not be like in those job interviews where you have to be somebody else you really are. They finally succeeded, but the Visa person (wrongly) thought that they were not honest. He made a conclusion which clearly was not according to logic. So they lost some money to get it right....

Thats £800 lost money. Then you try again... So preventing risking losing money you have to use legal advice. And it costs... so this is what I do not really like, it is made so difficult for honest people. For many people (even working people) £2000 is quite a big money to get a fiancee. Say you work in MacDonalds: you are honestly working, but you in London you would not get much savings quickly (which is needed if you get interested in somebody). Well, maybe its meant be like that: MacDonalds people should not marry people from other countries.. (just joking). But it really gives advantage to rich people and casual people suffering.

If I get that no win no fee, I might try. Then they have reason to do their best.... its difficult to trust in this world. Many are only after money... And if I do not immediately make the desicion to "pay quickly the £900" to start the process immediately, they think that you are "bad man" and wasting their time.

You a time waster? Surely not!

Casa wrote:You a time waster? Surely not!

In a way that I cannot change laws here, yes. Maybe I should apply to be a prime minister or something instead to make changes...

btw. I did send a letter to a politician about this, so furiour I was...

But in a way things are going forward... I will go to Africa in two weeks (and yes, we do have money to meet eatch others... I namely already bought the tickets £670 - piece of cake! She will pay half of the ticket when I arrive. And hotel is reserved. But UBA was not convinced we had funds...ok, partly my fault because did not even try to give bank statements, but I doubt it would have been accepted as a proof for funds even if I did...).

" I already bought the tickets £670 - piece of cake! She will pay half of the ticket when I arrive."

How kind of you to only make her pay for half the ticket !! She does not know how lucky she is !!!

2 weeks can't come quickly enough for us all here !

jp70 wrote:

Casa wrote:You a time waster? Surely not!

In a way that I cannot change laws here, yes. Maybe I should apply to be a prime minister or something instead to make changes...

btw. I did send a letter to a politician about this, so furiour I was...

But in a way things are going forward... I will go to Africa in two weeks (and yes, we do have money to meet eatch others... I namely already bought the tickets £670 - piece of cake! She will pay half of the ticket when I arrive. And hotel is reserved. But UBA was not convinced we had funds...ok, partly my fault because did not even try to give bank statements, but I doubt it would have been accepted as a proof for funds even if I did...).

What a Love !!

jp70 wrote:

Casa wrote:" Quote "One could be simply sending her back to her country if the husband cannot pay her bills" Your idea for an alternative method for the UKBA doesn't sound very compassionate does it?

compassionate or not but I think it would be pretty good. Also I do not understand that "she must have £120 weekly to live". Well, I think I have lived many months with like £60 for food and couple of other necessary things needed (washing powder etc.). Why does she need that extra £60 if she decides to live with a little money for couple of months?

.

Its strange that an intra-day trader makes lot of money wants to live on
60 quid/month. Someone might live on air, lets make the rule to suit them


and talking of fakes...there are people using fake passports,so lets do away with passports ...that'll solve your problem wouldn't it ?