EEA3 and British Nationality for A8 National

Hello

I have a specific question regarding my sitaution.

I'm Polish, I've arrived in UK in June 2007 and started my employment in the middle of June 2007. Now I know I should have registered with WRS straight after but I hadn't known it then. I continued with my job for the next 4 years, unfortunately after the first year my boss gave me a misleading info that I didn't have to register any more as I've continued working for the whole year at the same job. At the end I found out I should have been registered at the beginning no matter what but I only registered 2 years after which was in 2009. Moreover, I started University in UK in September 2008.

I know that A8 countries do not need to register with WRS any more but I'm asking if my 5years that I need to have for EEA3 counts from the 2007 or from the time I started university or maybe from the registration with WRS? I mean, do I need to waith another 2 years to apply for Permanent Residence + one more year to apply for British Nationality?

If I send my application in June 2012 with all the papers confirming my employment since 2007, will I get refused?

Please let me know, if you have some info about that!

thank you!

Mate,in my own opinion YES, Only if you can Demonstrate that you have been exercising European Treaty rights in the UK for 5yrs. EEA national registration and PR are thing of choice,So go ahead and apply for your PR. best of luck.

zubby007 wrote:Mate,in my own opinion YES, Only if you can Demonstrate that you have been exercising European Treaty rights in the UK for 5yrs. EEA national registration and PR are thing of choice,So go ahead and apply for your PR. best of luck.

This would be fine, but an A8 national was supposed to have registered on workers registration scheme. Otherwise it would be very simple.

adelajd wrote:Hello

I have a specific question regarding my sitaution.

I'm Polish, I've arrived in UK in June 2007 and started my employment in the middle of June 2007. Now I know I should have registered with WRS straight after but I hadn't known it then. I continued with my job for the next 4 years, unfortunately after the first year my boss gave me a misleading info that I didn't have to register any more as I've continued working for the whole year at the same job. At the end I found out I should have been registered at the beginning no matter what but I only registered 2 years after which was in 2009. Moreover, I started University in UK in September 2008.

I know that A8 countries do not need to register with WRS any more but I'm asking if my 5years that I need to have for EEA3 counts from the 2007 or from the time I started university or maybe from the registration with WRS? I mean, do I need to waith another 2 years to apply for Permanent Residence + one more year to apply for British Nationality?

If I send my application in June 2012 with all the papers confirming my employment since 2007, will I get refused?

Please let me know, if you have some info about that!

thank you!

I'm not sure if anyone has successfully argued that if an A8 did not register they could be considered living in the UK as a worker. I understood that one has to register for a year and then one would be considered one (I may not have this quite right though).

Why do you want British Nationality? Is there a significant advantage for you.

Apply for Permanent Residence first, it's free and if rejected you'll get a reason why, again at no cost to you.

If you have obtained PR and UKBA recognises that, then apply for naturalisation.

@EUsmileWEallsmile: Indeed, as an EU national I would even not bother about getting PR confirmed, let alone thinking about British Citizenship. The benefits in daily life are negligible.

alekos wrote:Apply for Permanent Residence first, it's free and if rejected you'll get a reason why, again at no cost to you.

If you have obtained PR and UKBA recognises that, then apply for naturalisation.

You are correct that the PR application is free and that applying would be one way to find out. It doesn't answer the OP's question as to whether failure to apply for registration scheme would mean that they would not qualify for PR.

fysicus wrote:@EUsmileWEallsmile: Indeed, as an EU national I would even not bother about getting PR confirmed, let alone thinking about British Citizenship. The benefits in daily life are negligible.

I can see there being some marginal benefits to having PR (and doesn't cost anything), but naturalisation is very expensive.

adelajd wrote:Hello

I have a specific question regarding my sitaution.

I'm Polish, I've arrived in UK in June 2007 and started my employment in the middle of June 2007. Now I know I should have registered with WRS straight after but I hadn't known it then. I continued with my job for the next 4 years, unfortunately after the first year my boss gave me a misleading info that I didn't have to register any more as I've continued working for the whole year at the same job. At the end I found out I should have been registered at the beginning no matter what but I only registered 2 years after which was in 2009. Moreover, I started University in UK in September 2008.

I know that A8 countries do not need to register with WRS any more but I'm asking if my 5years that I need to have for EEA3 counts from the 2007 or from the time I started university or maybe from the registration with WRS? I mean, do I need to waith another 2 years to apply for Permanent Residence + one more year to apply for British Nationality?

If I send my application in June 2012 with all the papers confirming my employment since 2007, will I get refused?

Please let me know, if you have some info about that!

thank you!

You should familiarise yourself with this.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

alekos wrote:Apply for Permanent Residence first, it's free and if rejected you'll get a reason why, again at no cost to you.

If you have obtained PR and UKBA recognises that, then apply for naturalisation.

Follow his advice, if they give you PR then apply for BC using the same paperwork. If they refuse BC on grounds not having wrs that may give you reason to appeal.
But I think they will refuse because wrs was one of them which must be done.

boloney wrote:

alekos wrote:Apply for Permanent Residence first, it's free and if rejected you'll get a reason why, again at no cost to you.

If you have obtained PR and UKBA recognises that, then apply for naturalisation.

Follow his advice, if they give you PR then apply for BC using the same paperwork. If they refuse BC on grounds not having wrs that may give you reason to appeal.
But I think they will refuse because wrs was one of them which must be done.

I don't see the benefit of applying if the application is going to be refused. If someone's successfully applied without first having registered under the registration scheme then great, but the guidance appears to suggest otherwise.

I assisted someone who was also an A8, and had similar experiences with the WRS ~ their non eu spouse wanted to join them in the UK on an EEAfp,

strangely enough there was some common sense and logic applied by the UKBA...

although the WRS time had not been completed, the A8 had indeed been working, and could provide all of the evidence of that except for the WRS, and the WRS was due to end .... and the A8 DID register when they found out that their employer had not sent off the forms......

If the WRS had not been so close to ending the UKBA could have probably made a fuss, but they didn't, the EEA/fp was issued, and the spouse also now has a UK RC.

so i would be inclined to think that as the WRS is no longer in effect for the OP anyway, and they can prove that they were exercising treaty rights, and bearing in mind article 23 of the directive...

I don't think there should be a problem with PR.

as for obtaining a Brit passport, I am with the others on this, I don't see what the point is? as an EU citizen you have equal status, or is it a travelling issue? about visa's for polish citizens?

MelC wrote:I assisted someone who was also an A8, and had similar experiences with the WRS ~ their non eu spouse wanted to join them in the UK on an EEAfp,

strangely enough there was some common sense and logic applied by the UKBA...

although the WRS time had not been completed, the A8 had indeed been working, and could provide all of the evidence of that except for the WRS, and the WRS was due to end .... and the A8 DID register when they found out that their employer had not sent off the forms......

If the WRS had not been so close to ending the UKBA could have probably made a fuss, but they didn't, the EEA/fp was issued, and the spouse also now has a UK RC.

so i would be inclined to think that as the WRS is no longer in effect for the OP anyway, and they can prove that they were exercising treaty rights, and bearing in mind article 23 of the directive...

I don't think there should be a problem with PR.

as for obtaining a Brit passport, I am with the others on this, I don't see what the point is? as an EU citizen you have equal status, or is it a travelling issue? about visa's for polish citizens?

Thanks Mel, good to get first (or in this case second) hand experience. The only point to add is that UKBA are pretty strict with PR applications. The application for PR may fail on the registration technicality.

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:

MelC wrote:I assisted someone who was also an A8, and had similar experiences with the WRS ~ their non eu spouse wanted to join them in the UK on an EEAfp,

strangely enough there was some common sense and logic applied by the UKBA...

although the WRS time had not been completed, the A8 had indeed been working, and could provide all of the evidence of that except for the WRS, and the WRS was due to end .... and the A8 DID register when they found out that their employer had not sent off the forms......

If the WRS had not been so close to ending the UKBA could have probably made a fuss, but they didn't, the EEA/fp was issued, and the spouse also now has a UK RC.

so i would be inclined to think that as the WRS is no longer in effect for the OP anyway, and they can prove that they were exercising treaty rights, and bearing in mind article 23 of the directive...

I don't think there should be a problem with PR.

as for obtaining a Brit passport, I am with the others on this, I don't see what the point is? as an EU citizen you have equal status, or is it a travelling issue? about visa's for polish citizens?

Thanks Mel, good to get first (or in this case second) hand experience. The only point to add is that UKBA are pretty strict with PR applications. The application for PR may fail on the registration technicality.

I would agree with you that the "technicality" might be where the UKBA could try and make a meal out of this, but i think they would give in because of article 23, and the cost of fighting it to be honest, I will ask the policy team, get them to put their heads in the noose lol

i don't have to hand the directive... does it state 5 years lawful residence?
the OP has been in the UK 5 years lawfully, just a technicality of not having all those years on the WRS that no longer exists, and not fulfilling an administrative formality doesn't change a treaty right or give or take away a treaty right they only confirm it? and the OP can "attest" to that by other means? lol
throw the wording back at them eh?
I WILL check with the policy team, but on the face of it what is the worst they can do? only take into consideration the time actually registered?

that wouldn't change the real time, and evidenced legal working?

alekos wrote:Apply for Permanent Residence first, it's free and if rejected you'll get a reason why, again at no cost to you.

If you have obtained PR and UKBA recognises that, then apply for naturalisation.

I think I'll do that and I'll have my answer.

Thank you all guys for your opinions!

I know I don't need the citizenship but I'd like to do it for personal reasons... and the travelling part of it is just another advantage.

adelajd wrote:

alekos wrote:Apply for Permanent Residence first, it's free and if rejected you'll get a reason why, again at no cost to you.

If you have obtained PR and UKBA recognises that, then apply for naturalisation.

I think I'll do that and I'll have my answer.

Thank you all guys for your opinions!

I know I don't need the citizenship but I'd like to do it for personal reasons... and the travelling part of it is just another advantage.

Let us know how you get on.

MelC wrote:

i don't have to hand the directive... does it state 5 years lawful residence?

The directive says "1. Union citizens who have resided legally for a continuous period of five years in the host Member State shall have the right of permanent residence there. This right shall not be subject to
the conditions provided for in Chapter III."

What does this mean? Basically, it means those who live in a member state in accordance with the conditions laid down in article 7 (be a workers, etc, etc).

The problem for A8 is that by the terms of their accession, member states were permitted to restrict access to their labour market. The UK required A8 nationals to register for a period of time in order that they were considered to be working legally in the UK and hence access the benefits of the directive.

Are Polish nationals they have to apply for permanent residence certificate, before they could applt for British citizenship?
Is that compulsory?

alinakalina wrote:Are Polish nationals they have to apply for permanent residence certificate, before they could applt for British citizenship?
Is that compulsory?

No, but they need to have satisfied the requirements of PR in order to be considered (plus satisfy the separate naturalisation requirements).

Thank you for your reply.
i have another question..
My wife , child and me got EEA1 registration certificate, 1 month ago another baby born(born here in UK, same as 1st child), do we have to apply for EEA1 for that second child, in order that she would qualify for future PR, or BC?

thanks.

alinakalina wrote:Thank you for your reply.
i have another question..
My wife , child and me got EEA1 registration certificate, 1 month ago another baby born(born here in UK, same as 1st child), do we have to apply for EEA1 for that second child, in order that she would qualify for future PR, or BC?

thanks.

No. Documents under EEA regulations are optional and Residence Certificate (EEA1) doesn't have any real value for children. Havig or not havig it will not affect any future applications for PR or BC.

alinakalina wrote:Thank you for your reply.
i have another question..
My wife , child and me got EEA1 registration certificate, 1 month ago another baby born(born here in UK, same as 1st child), do we have to apply for EEA1 for that second child, in order that she would qualify for future PR, or BC?

thanks.

Jambo has already answered your question.

What I understand here is that you are quite some time away from PR, but are planning for it now. This is good practice. For all the applicants keep evidence.

Thank you for reply.
Yes, we have still some time to apply for PR, but i would like to find out information about this and BC, thats why i started this topics..
We are collecting all evidence from the beginning, so to be well prepaired for the future.
This forum i found very helpful, and you can have answer acording to your case, thats i appreciate.

MelC, for PR as EUSmiles said, you need to have been legal for 5 years, registration with WRS was the ONLY way someone could have worked legally, thus having worked in breach of the WRS conditions, the period mustn't be counted and the employer should be fined for employing/not following correct procedure.

Quite another thing would be that now that the WRS scheme is defunct, and the new incompetent caseworkers looking at the Polish guy's 5 year work history in practice would be enough to issue a PR. So I would simply apply on the basis of having been a worker for 5 years, as caseworkers aren't technical enough to remember different rules at different times during the Accession Treaty provisions etc.

Sorry, I cannot view private messages. Could you please send me an e-mail: pawel.janeczek@yahoo.co.uk