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1st. Admin Review Refused Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extensions 2nd. Admin Review Help

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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Bhavin002
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Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by Bhavin002 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:02 pm

Dear All,
My Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extensions was refused with allowing for administrative review. The reason for this Is:
We accept that you have created one full time paid job for Mr... Employee 1 as an engineer. You have provided evidence of a second employee Mr... Employee 2, however the evidence can not be accepted as he has the same job title as Mr... Employee 1 which is not accepted to create another job. No evidence of an employee with a different job title has been provided to create the second full time paid job.

In guidance, they never mentioned, the two jobs must be different

Thanks in advance.

heyaheya
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by heyaheya » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:08 pm

if u give bit background of ur status when u applied for ur initial application ... experts will be able to guide u accordingly...

good luck with ur AR

tarun_shreeji
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by tarun_shreeji » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:09 pm

Can you please share your time line ,
When you apply , bio metric , Complex issue letter and when you recive dicision.
Thanks
Nqf level 4 business

Bhavin002
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by Bhavin002 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:18 pm

I have received rejected letter on 20th. Aug. I have now two days to deal with Administrative review. I have shown two full time employment they confirm only one full time employment due to same job title.
My argument is they both have separate skills and job. I didn't see anywhere to describe their job description etc. all other points they have awarded but they haven't awarded two full time job creation points. so, it fell under refusal.

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by marcnath » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:22 pm

Bhavin002 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:02 pm
Dear All,
My Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extensions was refused with allowing for administrative review. The reason for this Is:
We accept that you have created one full time paid job for Mr... Employee 1 as an engineer. You have provided evidence of a second employee Mr... Employee 2, however the evidence can not be accepted as he has the same job title as Mr... Employee 1 which is not accepted to create another job. No evidence of an employee with a different job title has been provided to create the second full time paid job.

In guidance, they never mentioned, the two jobs must be different

Thanks in advance.
That seems to be a new one.

And if HO is going to take this stance, I can see that quite a few others will have problems.

The job title is possibly there in the Payslip or FPS documents. The application form also requires you to put the job title.

1. Are you pre or post April 2014 ?
2. Were the two employees hired one after the other or were they working at the same time.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by marcnath » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:27 pm

Bhavin002 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:18 pm
I have received rejected letter on 20th. Aug. I have now two days to deal with Administrative review. I have shown two full time employment they confirm only one full time employment due to same job title.
My argument is they both have separate skills and job. I didn't see anywhere to describe their job description etc. all other points they have awarded but they haven't awarded two full time job creation points. so, it fell under refusal.
This definitely seems to be a strange argument.

I can't see how the argument that it is the same job title can hold up in a review.

If the two people were hired one after the other, then HO can argue that it is the one job for 24 months, which you will not get credit for if you are post April 2014 - is that your case ?

But still, I can't see the argument of Job Title holding up.

For your AR, make sure you make the argument as to why those two jobs are different.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Bhavin002
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by Bhavin002 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:35 pm

Thanks for the reply.
My initial application was after April 2014.

Bhavin002
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by Bhavin002 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:40 pm

I have two employees since November 2013 to continue working.
Employee 1 Full time through out the period.
Employee 2 Full time during 2015-2016 for more than 12 months and part time during other times.

Thanks,

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by marcnath » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:53 pm

Bhavin002 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:40 pm
I have two employees since November 2013 to continue working.
Employee 1 Full time through out the period.
Employee 2 Full time during 2015-2016 for more than 12 months and part time during other times.

Thanks,
Ok. That should be easy to get overturned in AR then.

Bit of a pain, but I guess HO has some new internal guidelines which the CWs are learning and you are part of the learning curve, unfortunately.

You have demonstrably created two jobs of 12 months each.

All the best with your AR
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Bhavin002
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by Bhavin002 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:57 pm

Thanks, Hopefully but finger crossed. Bloody Pain... been here for 8 years now and since struggling for visas in this country after investing £80,000 cash in the business and lot's of money for visas.

moongesture
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by moongesture » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:01 pm

Bhavin002 wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:02 pm
Dear All,
My Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extensions was refused with allowing for administrative review. The reason for this Is:
We accept that you have created one full time paid job for Mr... Employee 1 as an engineer. You have provided evidence of a second employee Mr... Employee 2, however the evidence can not be accepted as he has the same job title as Mr... Employee 1 which is not accepted to create another job. No evidence of an employee with a different job title has been provided to create the second full time paid job.

In guidance, they never mentioned, the two jobs must be different

Thanks in advance.
Nothing to worry about as it will be overturned in admin review. This may be the judgmental error, Job title is not a valid requirement but for you, it must be An Equivalent of 2 full-time jobs for at least 12 months.

sassybee
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by sassybee » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:07 pm

@Bhavin002,

I can relate with the situation of having 2 separate full time jobs with the same job title. I really think there is a strong chance the decision will be overturned in AR if you are able to argue the fact that workload required 2 engineers not one. It could be 2 engineers working on 2 separate projects for 2 separate clients.

Also say you are running a restaurant business will HO reject an application if you have created 2 full time CHEF jobs or 2 full time WAITERS jobs.

I think you can have 2 full time jobs with the same title if workload cannot be fulfilled by one full time job. You need to justify where you needed to employ two full time engineers.

Wish you all the best in AR and fingers crossed decision will be over turned. :) :)

Bhavin002
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by Bhavin002 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:12 pm

Thank you all for your positive and quick replies. You are stars.

QSDanik
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by QSDanik » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:39 pm

Hello Bhavin
Sorry to hear that, we wish your AR will change the decision.
I am going to apply in End of October and I have two Marketing assistants ( one for Kent and One for London areas, same title for 2 employee full time I have one part time for administrative assistant, but I am going to claim point of employment on 2 jobs ,title Marketing assistant.
Your post also made me worried.
Seniors, Please guid how to present this situation to CW to avoid the refusal.

kkkTier1
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by kkkTier1 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:52 pm

@ Bhavin002- good luck with your admin review.

Could you share your timeline please.

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by marcnath » Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:47 pm

QSDanik wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:39 pm
Hello Bhavin
Sorry to hear that, we wish your AR will change the decision.
I am going to apply in End of October and I have two Marketing assistants ( one for Kent and One for London areas, same title for 2 employee full time I have one part time for administrative assistant, but I am going to claim point of employment on 2 jobs ,title Marketing assistant.
Your post also made me worried.
Seniors, Please guid how to present this situation to CW to avoid the refusal.
Given this new approach, there are a few things people can and should do.
1. Try to ensure there are no job titles in the payslips/FPS
2. Or Make sure you have different job titles - Marketing Assistant - Kent and and Marketing Assistant - London in the case above - and use that in all documentation.
3. Most importantly, in your application form, use the different Job title - even if is Marketing Assistant 1 and Marketing Assistant 2.

The last point is the most important - if that is not done, HO can claim that a maximum of 30 hrs per week is applied for a job and so they ignore one. It is not an argument that I think will hold up, but maybe the reason for the rejection.

Those who have been rejected can confirm if they listed the same Job title for Job 1 and Job 2 in the application form.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

QSDanik
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by QSDanik » Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:54 am

Thanks Marcnath
My Salary Slips does not job titles, I will have a look if it shows on RTI and other documents. Thanks again

sm12
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by sm12 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:53 am

QSDanik wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:54 am
Thanks Marcnath
My Salary Slips does not job titles, I will have a look if it shows on RTI and other documents. Thanks again
I think you must have provided job titles on the application form? They must have got the titles from there.

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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by rahul190 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:55 am

Please clarify point

1. Two full time jobs
- full time job 1
employee 1 job title X,
left employee 2 job title X
Left employee 3 job title X

-full time job 2
Employee 1 job title x throughout whole period

(Job title X means same job title for all above mentioned employees)

After reading whole forum, please advise that above mentioned situation is an issue for HO?

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Rejected Urgent Help Needed

Post by marcnath » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:15 am

rahul190 wrote:
Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:55 am
Please clarify point

1. Two full time jobs
- full time job 1
employee 1 job title X,
left employee 2 job title X
Left employee 3 job title X

-full time job 2
Employee 1 job title x throughout whole period

(Job title X means same job title for all above mentioned employees)

After reading whole forum, please advise that above mentioned situation is an issue for HO?
What did you fill in for the Job Title in the Application (Table 3b2) ?
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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