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50k Extension application refused

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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annoyedatukba
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50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:06 pm

Hi guys,

Took your advice and started my own thread re this topic - I applied in December 2016 and got my refusal in Febuary 2017. Reason as follows:

"You have provided pay slips, FPS date and Historical payroll details (P11 and P32), however these do not meet the requirements of paragraph 46-SD(h)(i) and 46-SD(h)(iii) as these documents do not indicate the hourly rate of pay or the date that each employee started work."

I have indicated the hourly rate and the start dates of the employees on the actual application form. So the information is there, just not on in the way that they wanted it.

What are my chances at AR? Does this fall under evidential flexibility?

Gurus . your advice is urgently needed - thanks.

ishfaqsangra
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by ishfaqsangra » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:14 pm

Did you not submit FPS with start date of an employee?

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annoyedatukba
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:47 pm

Yes they did have the start date of the employee and they recognise the dates the rest of the refusal states the following:

"The period of employment you are claiming falls between March 2015 - November 2016. Although you have submitted documents titled FPS Data Month, which show the total payment of tax and national insurance to HMRC, these documents do not identify the employees to which the payments in tax relate to and there it is not possible to corroborate the FPS data month information against either historical payroll details or the wage slips provided"

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Zimba
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by Zimba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:46 am

This is an FPS report sample showing individual tax payments: http://www.moneysoft.co.uk/images/pm/de ... 47x957.png
See also: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 03003.html
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

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annoyedatukba
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:27 am

Hi Zimba,

Thanks for your prompt response.

But my application has already been refused, and I am filing and AR within the next few days.

I know I'm not supposed to attach new documents to my AR. Are you suggesting I use this software and attach to my grounds for refusal?

seasky
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by seasky » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:35 am

zimba88 wrote:This is an FPS report sample showing individual tax payments: http://www.moneysoft.co.uk/images/pm/de ... 47x957.png
See also: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 03003.html
Zimba, the image you sent DOES NOT have start leave dates for any employees.

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by seasky » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:46 am

annoyedatukba (best forum name ever)

What SW do you use, because your issue seems to raise a new criteria the details of each employee

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:00 am

seasky wrote:annoyedatukba (best forum name ever)

What SW do you use, because your issue seems to raise a new criteria the details of each employee

I outsource the accounting to a company and they say that this is the software they use for all their clients and they have plenty ! It's just obviously not in the format required by HMRC

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annoyedatukba
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:12 am

seasky wrote:annoyedatukba (best forum name ever)

What SW do you use, because your issue seems to raise a new criteria the details of each employee
They use Quill Pinpoint

seasky
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by seasky » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:34 am

annoyedatukba wrote:
seasky wrote:annoyedatukba (best forum name ever)

What SW do you use, because your issue seems to raise a new criteria the details of each employee
They use Quill Pinpoint
That is not an approved HMRC payroll SW (https://www.gov.uk/payroll-software/paid-for-software) it seem a legal office management tool.

Maybe this is not the SW they used for your payroll?

inaam.cs
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by inaam.cs » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:16 pm

seasky wrote:
zimba88 wrote:This is an FPS report sample showing individual tax payments: http://www.moneysoft.co.uk/images/pm/de ... 47x957.png
See also: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 03003.html
Zimba, the image you sent DOES NOT have start leave dates for any employees.
I think FPS of each month presents the info of Employee for whom the points are claimed. So 24 months FPS reports show the employee worked for two years. right?

seasky
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by seasky » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:20 pm

inaam.cs wrote:
seasky wrote:
zimba88 wrote:This is an FPS report sample showing individual tax payments: http://www.moneysoft.co.uk/images/pm/de ... 47x957.png
See also: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 03003.html
Zimba, the image you sent DOES NOT have start leave dates for any employees.
I think FPS of each month presents the info of Employee for whom the points are claimed. So 24 months FPS reports show the employee worked for two years. right?
That and all the other employee evidence asked for, but as per guidance is still has to show start/leave dates. Zimba's example does not show it

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annoyedatukba
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:41 pm

seasky wrote:
annoyedatukba wrote:
seasky wrote:annoyedatukba (best forum name ever)

What SW do you use, because your issue seems to raise a new criteria the details of each employee
They use Quill Pinpoint
That is not an approved HMRC payroll SW (https://www.gov.uk/payroll-software/paid-for-software) it seem a legal office management tool.

Maybe this is not the SW they used for your payroll?
Thank you for this link, wish I had known about it prior to the submission. My question now is, do I have solid ground for AR based on evidential flexibility keeping in mind that all the information is there, just not in the right format?

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annoyedatukba
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:43 pm

zimba88 wrote:This is an FPS report sample showing individual tax payments: http://www.moneysoft.co.uk/images/pm/de ... 47x957.png
See also: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 03003.html
Thanks for the link and the thread. I have gone through them, once again hindsight has 20/20 vision. My question is do I have grounds for AR citing evidential flexibility keeping in mind that all the information is there just not in the format they require?

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by sniperV » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:55 pm

you can try, because someone use FPS PRODUCED BY Sage without the information of total payment to employee but have information of employee stater/leaver date which accepted by HO.

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by seasky » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:02 pm

OP suggest you post one of your FPS reports (black out names etc)

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:04 pm

sniperV wrote:you can try, because someone use FPS PRODUCED BY Sage without the information of total payment to employee but have information of employee stater/leaver date which accepted by HO.
Mine has the opposite issue, I have the total and individual payments to employees but I do not have the starter / leaver date. Mine has the number of months Month 1, Month 2 etc not indicating the start / end month

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:05 pm

seasky wrote:OP suggest you post one of your FPS reports (black out names etc)
Haven't got any on me at the moment, I got them from Quill and submit them alongside my application. Will try and get them to to reissue a copy.

ishfaqsangra
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by ishfaqsangra » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:48 pm

zimba88 wrote:This is an FPS report sample showing individual tax payments: http://www.moneysoft.co.uk/images/pm/de ... 47x957.png
See also: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 03003.html
Great , thats how mines are I think its moneysoft

seasky
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by seasky » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:58 pm

ishfaqsangra wrote:
zimba88 wrote:This is an FPS report sample showing individual tax payments: http://www.moneysoft.co.uk/images/pm/de ... 47x957.png
See also: http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... 03003.html
Great , thats how mines are I think its moneysoft
This example does not have start/leave dates. Waiting for Zimba to remove said confusion

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by inaam.cs » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:02 pm

I think FPS of each month presents the info of Employee for whom the points are claimed. So 24 months FPS reports show the employee worked for two years. right?[/quote]

That and all the other employee evidence asked for, but as per guidance is still has to show start/leave dates. Zimba's example does not show it[/quote]

This is what mentioned in the guidance:
"185. From 6 October 2013, all businesses were required to report PAYE via Real Time. "
I think Zimba can explain more but to me his screenshot tells the required info in this regard

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by Zimba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:29 pm

They must show starter/leavers dates in the relevant months, e.g: http://www.moneysoft.co.uk/images/guide ... 55x604.png
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

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annoyedatukba
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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:59 pm

Hey guys,

just wanted to thank everyone on here for their support.

I have filed for AR today and I got a barrister friend to write up a grounds for refusal letter that I attached to my AR - I guess nothing to do now but wait. I'll keep you posted on what happened - fingers crossed that the decision is overturned.

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by annoyedatukba » Mon Apr 03, 2017 1:19 pm

zimba88 wrote:They must show starter/leavers dates in the relevant months, e.g: http://www.moneysoft.co.uk/images/guide ... 55x604.png
Hi Zimba and Gurus,

If (god forbid) but AR was refused, can I make a fresh extension application? I am originally PSW to T1 50k route. My solicitor says I cannot make a fresh application as this route is now closed - is this true?

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Re: 50k Extension application refused

Post by sm12 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:04 pm

You can make a fresh extension application within 14 days. The route is closed for new applications for the initial visa, not extension.

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