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Administrative review urgent help

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

yash121
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Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by yash121 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:39 pm

Hello everyone
I came here under standard visa (prospective ent category) in February 2019 to secure VC funding for my business which I did and applied for switching to Tier 1 entrepreneur £50K route on 27th March and submitted my documents and biometric on 15th April 2019. I used new system and they had scanned all of my documents including my passport. I did not receive any confirmation from UKVI regarding my application whether they received it or not. So I need some information for below points

1) They didn't take my passport so am I free to travel back and come here again as need to attain some business meetings in India.

2) Is it normal that UKVI don't send any confirmation for your visa application.

3) How long does this whole process take as my visa is expiring in Aug 2019, so do I need to leave before that or I can live here till the time my application is with UKVI

4) Can I register a company, hire staff and sign business agreements on standard visa or not.

It would be great in case senior members can shed some light on these things. Also, people who have applied under same category during the month of March 2019, please share your experience and timeline too.

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CR001
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Re: Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by CR001 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:45 pm

1. If you leave the UK, your application will be considered withdrawn.

2. Yes.

3. It can take a couple of months, sometime longer. Should be fine to stay until you get a decision.

4. Don't know.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

yash121
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Re: Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by yash121 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:49 pm

Thank you so much for your reply. Hope to get more information on my 4th point :)

yash121
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Re: Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by yash121 » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:51 pm

CR001 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:45 pm
1. If you leave the UK, your application will be considered withdrawn.

2. Yes.

3. It can take a couple of months, sometime longer. Should be fine to stay until you get a decision.

4. Don't know.
Thank you so much for your reply.
I used the different VC firm's letter during my visit visa application and received funding from another VC firm which is quite reputable and used them for tier 1 application. It's normal or UKVI can raise questions about it.

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by marcnath » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:16 am

yash121 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:51 pm
CR001 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:45 pm
1. If you leave the UK, your application will be considered withdrawn.

2. Yes.

3. It can take a couple of months, sometime longer. Should be fine to stay until you get a decision.

4. Don't know.
Thank you so much for your reply.
I used the different VC firm's letter during my visit visa application and received funding from another VC firm which is quite reputable and used them for tier 1 application. It's normal or UKVI can raise questions about it.
UKVI can definitely ask questions about it. Investment funds are a focus for UKVI.

But if it genuine, questions should not worry you. Just make sure you submit all the documents required as per the guidelines.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

yash121
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Re: Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by yash121 » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:01 am

marcnath wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:16 am
yash121 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:51 pm
CR001 wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:45 pm
1. If you leave the UK, your application will be considered withdrawn.

2. Yes.

3. It can take a couple of months, sometime longer. Should be fine to stay until you get a decision.

4. Don't know.
Thank you so much for your reply.
I used the different VC firm's letter during my visit visa application and received funding from another VC firm which is quite reputable and used them for tier 1 application. It's normal or UKVI can raise questions about it.
UKVI can definitely ask questions about it. Investment funds are a focus for UKVI.

But if it genuine, questions should not worry you. Just make sure you submit all the documents required as per the guidelines.

I have included all the paper work and the business plan. I am already doing this work from the last 8 years and provided all the invoices with bank statements showing the money paid into my account, business agreements etc so I guess the paper is fine.
Please shed some light on the 4th point as I do not know where I stand in that regard.

Lulu87
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Re: Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by Lulu87 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:20 am

Hi yash121

Who did you use as your VC for your standard visa application?

I would like to apply as a prospective entrepreneur for a standard visitor visa but I do not know how to start looking for a registered VC to get in touch with. Please help?!

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CR001
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Re: Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by CR001 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:41 am

Lulu87 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:20 am
Hi yash121

Who did you use as your VC for your standard visa application?

I would like to apply as a prospective entrepreneur for a standard visitor visa but I do not know how to start looking for a registered VC to get in touch with. Please help?!
Members are not permitted to name company details on the forum.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

yash121
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Re: Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by yash121 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 7:18 pm

Lulu87 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:20 am
Hi yash121

Who did you use as your VC for your standard visa application?

I would like to apply as a prospective entrepreneur for a standard visitor visa but I do not know how to start looking for a registered VC to get in touch with. Please help?!

Hello
I would suggest you to make a list of VC firms who invests in your type of business and then start contacting them with your Business pitch.

yash121
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Re: Tier 1 ent urgent help

Post by yash121 » Mon May 06, 2019 5:49 pm

CR001 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:41 am
Lulu87 wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:20 am
Hi yash121

Who did you use as your VC for your standard visa application?

I would like to apply as a prospective entrepreneur for a standard visitor visa but I do not know how to start looking for a registered VC to get in touch with. Please help?!
Members are not permitted to name company details on the forum.
Hello CR001
Thanks for sharing valuable information over here. Please share your opinion about below question as I am in a limbo situation right now

Can I register a company, hire staff and sign business agreements on standard visa ( prospective ent) or not when my application for Tier 1 ent is under process.

Regards

yash121
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Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:26 pm
Mood:
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Tier 1 ent help regarding business activity

Post by yash121 » Wed May 08, 2019 12:14 pm

Hello everyone
Thanks for sharing valuable information over here. Please share your opinion about below question as I am in a limbo situation right now

1) Can I register a company, hire staff and sign business agreements on standard visa ( prospective ent) or not when my application for Tier 1 ent is under process.

2) If it is allowed then UKVI will count the job creation during this period or not.


Regards

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 ent help regarding business activity

Post by marcnath » Fri May 10, 2019 12:36 pm

yash121 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:14 pm
Hello everyone
Thanks for sharing valuable information over here. Please share your opinion about below question as I am in a limbo situation right now

1) Can I register a company, hire staff and sign business agreements on standard visa ( prospective ent) or not when my application for Tier 1 ent is under process.

2) If it is allowed then UKVI will count the job creation during this period or not.


Regards
The second is easy - the answer is NO.

First is a little more complex. You are not allowed to work on the prospective ent visa. However, nothing stops you from being a Director of a business and the business hiring staff, etc.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

yash121
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Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:26 pm
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Re: Tier 1 ent help regarding business activity

Post by yash121 » Fri May 10, 2019 4:12 pm

marcnath wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:36 pm
yash121 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:14 pm
Hello everyone
Thanks for sharing valuable information over here. Please share your opinion about below question as I am in a limbo situation right now

1) Can I register a company, hire staff and sign business agreements on standard visa ( prospective ent) or not when my application for Tier 1 ent is under process.

2) If it is allowed then UKVI will count the job creation during this period or not.


Regards
The second is easy - the answer is NO.

First is a little more complex. You are not allowed to work on the prospective ent visa. However, nothing stops you from being a Director of a business and the business hiring staff, etc.
Hello Marcnath
thanks for this information :)
so I can start the company but can't run it which is bad. On the other hand, if I take the VC investment in this firm then they will count the job creation or wouldn't.

your response is much needed and thanks for helping everyone out over here.

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 ent help regarding business activity

Post by marcnath » Sat May 11, 2019 9:19 am

yash121 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:12 pm
marcnath wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:36 pm
yash121 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:14 pm
Hello everyone
Thanks for sharing valuable information over here. Please share your opinion about below question as I am in a limbo situation right now

1) Can I register a company, hire staff and sign business agreements on standard visa ( prospective ent) or not when my application for Tier 1 ent is under process.

2) If it is allowed then UKVI will count the job creation during this period or not.


Regards
The second is easy - the answer is NO.

First is a little more complex. You are not allowed to work on the prospective ent visa. However, nothing stops you from being a Director of a business and the business hiring staff, etc.
Hello Marcnath
thanks for this information :)
so I can start the company but can't run it which is bad. On the other hand, if I take the VC investment in this firm then they will count the job creation or wouldn't.

your response is much needed and thanks for helping everyone out over here.
Irrespective of the investment source, job creation for your extension is only calculated from the date of grant of your visa.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

yash121
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Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:26 pm
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India

Re: Tier 1 ent help regarding business activity

Post by yash121 » Sat May 11, 2019 10:24 am

marcnath wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 9:19 am
yash121 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 4:12 pm
marcnath wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:36 pm
yash121 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:14 pm
Hello everyone
Thanks for sharing valuable information over here. Please share your opinion about below question as I am in a limbo situation right now

1) Can I register a company, hire staff and sign business agreements on standard visa ( prospective ent) or not when my application for Tier 1 ent is under process.

2) If it is allowed then UKVI will count the job creation during this period or not.


Regards
The second is easy - the answer is NO.

First is a little more complex. You are not allowed to work on the prospective ent visa. However, nothing stops you from being a Director of a business and the business hiring staff, etc.
Hello Marcnath
thanks for this information :)
so I can start the company but can't run it which is bad. On the other hand, if I take the VC investment in this firm then they will count the job creation or wouldn't.

your response is much needed and thanks for helping everyone out over here.
Irrespective of the investment source, job creation for your extension is only calculated from the date of grant of your visa.

Thanks for clearing my doubts Marcnath, you are a superstar :)

yash121
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Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:26 pm
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Administrative review urgent help

Post by yash121 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:36 pm

Hello all the senior members
Recently I applied for Tier 1 ent visa inside the UK and on 1st June 2019 I have received a refusal letter dated 22nd May 2019.
The visa application is refused on wrong ground.

1) According to refusal letter, for this case worker my prospective ent visa was expired on 11th March 2019 so my application is refused.

My visa is valid till 19th August 2019, and I went to India on 18th March 2019 and came back on 23rd March 2019 and then made my application on 27th March 2019 so if my visa was expired then how I managed to enter the UK.

I don't understand how this guy is able to work in UKVI.
Is there any way to sue them because they put so many people under unnecessary mental pressure.

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CR001
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Re: Administrative review urgent help

Post by CR001 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:58 pm

Post the exact wording of the refusal letter, taking out personal details.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

yash121
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Re: Administrative review urgent help

Post by yash121 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:23 pm

CR001 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:58 pm
Post the exact wording of the refusal letter, taking out personal details.
Please see this and I never had any BRP card as well



Reasons for decision
Your application has been refused for the following reason
Paragraph 245DD(g) of the Immigration Rules excludes those who have overstayed, after the expiry of their leave, from being granted further leave unless one of the exceptions set out in paragraph 39E of the Immigration Rules applies:
Paragraph 245DD(g) states: (g) The applicant must not be in the UK in breach of immigration laws except that,
where paragraph 39E of these Rules applies, any current period of overstaying will be disregarded.
Paragraph 39E states:
Exceptions for overstayers 39E. This paragraph applies where:
1. the application was made within 14 days of the applicant's leave expiring and the Secretary of State considers that there was a good reason beyond the control of the applicant or their representative, provided in or with the application, why the application could not be made in-time; or
(2) the application was made:
(a) following the refusal of a previous application for leave which was made in-time.
(b) within 14 days of:
(c) the refusal of the previous application for leave; or
(ii) the expiry of any leave extended by section 3C of the Immigration Act 1971; or
(iii) the expiry of the time-limit for making an in-time application for administrative review or appeal (where applicable); or
(iv) any administrative review or appeal being concluded, withdrawn or abandoned or lapsing.
' None of the provisions of paragraph 39E apply to your current application:
e 39E(1) does not apply because your application was not made within 14 days of your leave expiring.
e 39E(2) does not apply because your application was not made within 14 days of the refusal of an in time application or the refusal of an application to which sub- paragraph (1) of 39E had been applied.
In your case your leave as a Prospective Entrepreneur expired on 11 March 2019. You did not apply for further leave to remain until 16 days later on 27 March 2019.
The Secretary of State is therefore satisfied that you were in the UK in breach of immigration laws at the time of your application having overstayed your leave, and that none of the exceptions set out in paragraph 39E apply in your case.
Therefore it has been decided to refuse your application under Paragraph 245DD(g) of the Immigration Rules with reference to paragraph 39E.
As you hold a Biometric Residence Permit (BRP) which is no longer valid, either because your right to remain has expired or it has been superseded by a further grant, you must now return it to the Home Office. You should cut the card into quarters and post it in a plain, windowless envelope. If you are returning the BRP from within the UK then please send it to: BRP Returns, P.O. Box 195, Bristol, BS20 1BT. If you are returning the BRP from outside of the UK please send it to: BRP Retums, Home

abuhf
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Re: Administrative review urgent help

Post by abuhf » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:44 pm

What visa category you were on while applying t1 From uk ??

yash121
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Re: Administrative review urgent help

Post by yash121 » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:19 pm

abuhf wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:44 pm
What visa category you were on while applying t1 From uk ??
I am on prospective ent visa under standard visitor visa.

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marcnath
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Re: Administrative review urgent help

Post by marcnath » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:34 pm

yash121 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:36 pm
Hello all the senior members
Recently I applied for Tier 1 ent visa inside the UK and on 1st June 2019 I have received a refusal letter dated 22nd May 2019.
The visa application is refused on wrong ground.

1) According to refusal letter, for this case worker my prospective ent visa was expired on 11th March 2019 so my application is refused.

My visa is valid till 19th August 2019, and I went to India on 18th March 2019 and came back on 23rd March 2019 and then made my application on 27th March 2019 so if my visa was expired then how I managed to enter the UK.

I don't understand how this guy is able to work in UKVI.
Is there any way to sue them because they put so many people under unnecessary mental pressure.
What is the significance of the 11th March date ?

When did you enter UK the first time ?

When you entered, the officer would have stamped your passport with an entry valid until date - what was that date ?

The validity date of the visa is not automatically the date of the leave granted on entry.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

yash121
Newbie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:26 pm
Mood:
India

Re: Administrative review urgent help

Post by yash121 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:14 pm

marcnath wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:34 pm
yash121 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:36 pm
Hello all the senior members
Recently I applied for Tier 1 ent visa inside the UK and on 1st June 2019 I have received a refusal letter dated 22nd May 2019.
The visa application is refused on wrong ground.

1) According to refusal letter, for this case worker my prospective ent visa was expired on 11th March 2019 so my application is refused.

My visa is valid till 19th August 2019, and I went to India on 18th March 2019 and came back on 23rd March 2019 and then made my application on 27th March 2019 so if my visa was expired then how I managed to enter the UK.

I don't understand how this guy is able to work in UKVI.
Is there any way to sue them because they put so many people under unnecessary mental pressure.
What is the significance of the 11th March date ?

When did you enter UK the first time ?

When you entered, the officer would have stamped your passport with an entry valid until date - what was that date ?

The validity date of the visa is not automatically the date of the leave granted on entry.

What is the significance of the 11th March date ? not at all

When did you enter UK the first time ? on 20th feb 2019 as my visa start date was 19th feb 2019

When you entered, the officer would have stamped your passport with an entry valid until date - what was that date ?
The only date he put is 20th Feb 2019 not any until date. I think Visit visa is always valid till it's last date, I maybe wrong but I read about it.

The validity date of the visa is not automatically the date of the leave granted on entry.
I got my visa in India so I applied to switch to tier 1 inside the country as my visa is issued under prospective ent category in standard visa.

Also, I left UK on 18th March 2019 and came back again on 23rd March on the same visa and applied on 27th March 2019, so how it's possible that he's saying that I overstayed my visa.

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marcnath
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Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Administrative review urgent help

Post by marcnath » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:42 pm

yash121 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:14 pm
marcnath wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:34 pm
yash121 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:36 pm
Hello all the senior members
Recently I applied for Tier 1 ent visa inside the UK and on 1st June 2019 I have received a refusal letter dated 22nd May 2019.
The visa application is refused on wrong ground.

1) According to refusal letter, for this case worker my prospective ent visa was expired on 11th March 2019 so my application is refused.

My visa is valid till 19th August 2019, and I went to India on 18th March 2019 and came back on 23rd March 2019 and then made my application on 27th March 2019 so if my visa was expired then how I managed to enter the UK.

I don't understand how this guy is able to work in UKVI.
Is there any way to sue them because they put so many people under unnecessary mental pressure.
What is the significance of the 11th March date ?

When did you enter UK the first time ?

When you entered, the officer would have stamped your passport with an entry valid until date - what was that date ?

The validity date of the visa is not automatically the date of the leave granted on entry.

What is the significance of the 11th March date ? not at all

When did you enter UK the first time ? on 20th feb 2019 as my visa start date was 19th feb 2019

When you entered, the officer would have stamped your passport with an entry valid until date - what was that date ?
The only date he put is 20th Feb 2019 not any until date. I think Visit visa is always valid till it's last date, I maybe wrong but I read about it.

The validity date of the visa is not automatically the date of the leave granted on entry.
I got my visa in India so I applied to switch to tier 1 inside the country as my visa is issued under prospective ent category in standard visa.

Also, I left UK on 18th March 2019 and came back again on 23rd March on the same visa and applied on 27th March 2019, so how it's possible that he's saying that I overstayed my visa.
Ok. Clearly they seem to have made a mistake. Have they offered an AR option or any appeal option. You just need to follow those.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

yash121
Newbie
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:26 pm
Mood:
India

Re: Administrative review urgent help

Post by yash121 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:54 pm

marcnath wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:42 pm
yash121 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:14 pm
marcnath wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:34 pm
yash121 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:36 pm
Hello all the senior members
Recently I applied for Tier 1 ent visa inside the UK and on 1st June 2019 I have received a refusal letter dated 22nd May 2019.
The visa application is refused on wrong ground.

1) According to refusal letter, for this case worker my prospective ent visa was expired on 11th March 2019 so my application is refused.

My visa is valid till 19th August 2019, and I went to India on 18th March 2019 and came back on 23rd March 2019 and then made my application on 27th March 2019 so if my visa was expired then how I managed to enter the UK.

I don't understand how this guy is able to work in UKVI.
Is there any way to sue them because they put so many people under unnecessary mental pressure.
What is the significance of the 11th March date ?

When did you enter UK the first time ?

When you entered, the officer would have stamped your passport with an entry valid until date - what was that date ?

The validity date of the visa is not automatically the date of the leave granted on entry.

What is the significance of the 11th March date ? not at all

When did you enter UK the first time ? on 20th feb 2019 as my visa start date was 19th feb 2019

When you entered, the officer would have stamped your passport with an entry valid until date - what was that date ?
The only date he put is 20th Feb 2019 not any until date. I think Visit visa is always valid till it's last date, I maybe wrong but I read about it.

The validity date of the visa is not automatically the date of the leave granted on entry.
I got my visa in India so I applied to switch to tier 1 inside the country as my visa is issued under prospective ent category in standard visa.

Also, I left UK on 18th March 2019 and came back again on 23rd March on the same visa and applied on 27th March 2019, so how it's possible that he's saying that I overstayed my visa.
Ok. Clearly they seem to have made a mistake. Have they offered an AR option or any appeal option. You just need to follow those.
Hello
Yes, UKVI gave option of AR review so I am planning to use it. So will they issue a visa in AR review or they will resend the case for consideration.

Is there any chance of suing them for this as it will cost me money to hire a solicitor to make AR appeal as I do not want to take any chances. More than money these things put anyone into a limbo situation which is not good for mental health. I mean I am going through a-lot because of their silly mistake.
I would also like to thank you all the people over here as I applied for Tier 1 by myself without hiring any solicitor so thank you for sharing your valuable feedbacks.

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marcnath
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Re: Administrative review urgent help

Post by marcnath » Sun Jun 02, 2019 2:04 pm

yash121 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:54 pm
marcnath wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:42 pm
yash121 wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:14 pm
marcnath wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:34 pm


What is the significance of the 11th March date ?

When did you enter UK the first time ?

When you entered, the officer would have stamped your passport with an entry valid until date - what was that date ?

The validity date of the visa is not automatically the date of the leave granted on entry.

What is the significance of the 11th March date ? not at all

When did you enter UK the first time ? on 20th feb 2019 as my visa start date was 19th feb 2019

When you entered, the officer would have stamped your passport with an entry valid until date - what was that date ?
The only date he put is 20th Feb 2019 not any until date. I think Visit visa is always valid till it's last date, I maybe wrong but I read about it.

The validity date of the visa is not automatically the date of the leave granted on entry.
I got my visa in India so I applied to switch to tier 1 inside the country as my visa is issued under prospective ent category in standard visa.

Also, I left UK on 18th March 2019 and came back again on 23rd March on the same visa and applied on 27th March 2019, so how it's possible that he's saying that I overstayed my visa.
Ok. Clearly they seem to have made a mistake. Have they offered an AR option or any appeal option. You just need to follow those.
Hello
Yes, UKVI gave option of AR review so I am planning to use it. So will they issue a visa in AR review or they will resend the case for consideration.

Is there any chance of suing them for this as it will cost me money to hire a solicitor to make AR appeal as I do not want to take any chances. More than money these things put anyone into a limbo situation which is not good for mental health. I mean I am going through a-lot because of their silly mistake.
I would also like to thank you all the people over here as I applied for Tier 1 by myself without hiring any solicitor so thank you for sharing your valuable feedbacks.
I suspect it will be overturned in AR or resent for consideration. Most probably the latter.

I haven't seen anyone sue - you should take legal advice on that.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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