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Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

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rayuk
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Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by rayuk » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:42 pm

I have employed someone for several months now and we have been paying a monthly salary. The candidate contract is drawn on Nat. Living Wage i.e. £8.21 p/h but we do not track specific hours each month, just pay salary before taxes £1,050 p/m.

It is clear how CW calculated Hours worked. Divide Salary by stipulated hourly rate in Application Form.

In this case, £1050/£8.21 = 127.89 Hours p/m.

My concern now is if this could be less than the ca. 130 hours p/m expected. If so, is there something that can be done to rectify?

My Plan: Increase salary to £1,250 p/m equivalent of £15k p/y for remaining for months as well as Hourly Pay to £8.71 (noting that the Nat Living Wage is set to increase to £8.71 p/h from APR-20).

With that Tot. Hours Work Time in next 4 months (1250/8.71 = 143.5 p/m) + 127.89 p/m in past 8 months = 1597 Hours in 12 months (above the required 1560 Hrs).

Would this be OK or have I done mistake in previous payroll and need to correct it (if it can be amended at all before we close the tax year on 5 Apr, 20).

Thanks for the help on this forum!

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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by Zimba » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:17 pm

Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. DO NOT contact me via private messages for advice

rayuk
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by rayuk » Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:05 pm

Thanks, I have gone through the Covid-19 posts (could be a useful fallback to explore).

The key point to this regard made by @marcnath 'two jobs of 30 hrs/week each.'.

My confusion is if I could fall short of this 30 hrs/ week in certain months having 31 days or as long as annual Hours are above 1560 it is OK?
Thanks again.

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marcnath
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by marcnath » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:12 pm

rayuk wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:05 pm
Thanks, I have gone through the Covid-19 posts (could be a useful fallback to explore).

The key point to this regard made by @marcnath 'two jobs of 30 hrs/week each.'.

My confusion is if I could fall short of this 30 hrs/ week in certain months having 31 days or as long as annual Hours are above 1560 it is OK?
Thanks again.
Again, the only thing specified in the immigration rules is 30 hrs/week. There is no official requirement of 130 hrs/month. Similarly 1560 annually is not ok either.

If you have a month that has 31 days, then it is 4 weeks and 3 days.

So, your calculation actually is 1050/4.43/8.21 = 28.9 hrs/wk, which is short of the requirement.

Not sure how you arrived at the £1050 figure. If you employees are working 30 hrs/week, you are paying them below minimum wage. At minimum wage, the monthly salary should be 1,067.30.

This is a good calculator for that - https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly.php
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

rayuk
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by rayuk » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:46 pm

Thank you @marcnath for the clarification and also the link. It is what I was concerned with, we had told our employee it will be a min. 120 hrs p/m and annual salary £12,600 which was acceptable.

What I failed to account for is that certain months with 31 days, as you pointed below it may fall short. Person started Sep-2019 and appears Oct, Dec, Jan may now be short! Mar-20 we increased the pay to £1080.

Completely my bad (as it is not something the accountant could have advised me).
Question is if it can still be corrected, going back and correcting the 3 months pay as above and paying the difference out? Any other suggestion or advice?

Many thanks.

rayuk
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by rayuk » Wed Apr 01, 2020 7:37 pm

The employee had 3 days p/w mandatory to work from the office amounted to 8 hrs p/d and other days (work from home days) were never monitored for hours. The person being a designer & animator had flexibility to choose. Maybe I can write a letter to explain the actual arrangement, not sure how effective with HO?

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marcnath
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by marcnath » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:24 pm

rayuk wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:46 pm
Thank you @marcnath for the clarification and also the link. It is what I was concerned with, we had told our employee it will be a min. 120 hrs p/m and annual salary £12,600 which was acceptable.

What I failed to account for is that certain months with 31 days, as you pointed below it may fall short. Person started Sep-2019 and appears Oct, Dec, Jan may now be short! Mar-20 we increased the pay to £1080.

Completely my bad (as it is not something the accountant could have advised me).
Question is if it can still be corrected, going back and correcting the 3 months pay as above and paying the difference out? Any other suggestion or advice?

Many thanks.
At 120 hrs p.m., you fall short on 11 of the 12 months. 120 hrs pm only works for months with exactly 4 weeks. Since you are paying slightly more than minimum wage @ 120 hrs, you end up being ok for months with 30 days at minimum wage.

Since it is still within the payroll year, you should be able to go back and increase the wages - talk to your accountant. You can generate new payslips though I am not sure if you can generate new RTIs. I assume you are not going to do that just for those specific months - that would really look suspicious.

But, the reality is that you seemed to have agreed to an hourly rate of 8.75. Declaring it as 8.21 now is, strictly speaking, a fraudulent statement and you are always taking a risk with that.

Depending on when your visa expiry is, you would be much better off applying after you have 12 months at the revised wage.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

rayuk
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by rayuk » Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:28 pm

Thanks much for the candid advice. Just to be clear, we did not actually agree an hourly wage rather an annual salary (for the type of job it would be hard to track by the hour, it was based on trust and it would just happen to end up between 120- 130 hrs p/m).

The employee is happy with it but I realised we need to revise the salary from Apr-20 as the Living Wage is going up, and that is how I ended up with the calculations of past wages and the mistake that I have made!

My accountant don't see this as a problem but I need to explain to him the visa rules. Yes I have some months left ahead to correct but I should have still noted it earlier (not enough to meet full 12-mon requirement) and I do not think I can claim points for any of our other PT staff (have had several but it is the FT i.e. 30 hr p/w for 12 mon during extension period that has been tricky). I wonder if there is any evidence on this forum where a letter to the CW have helped with such matters? Maybe am being too optimistic on that front!

Thanks for the help.

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marcnath
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by marcnath » Fri Apr 03, 2020 6:08 am

rayuk wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:28 pm
Thanks much for the candid advice. Just to be clear, we did not actually agree an hourly wage rather an annual salary (for the type of job it would be hard to track by the hour, it was based on trust and it would just happen to end up between 120- 130 hrs p/m).

The employee is happy with it but I realised we need to revise the salary from Apr-20 as the Living Wage is going up, and that is how I ended up with the calculations of past wages and the mistake that I have made!

My accountant don't see this as a problem but I need to explain to him the visa rules. Yes I have some months left ahead to correct but I should have still noted it earlier (not enough to meet full 12-mon requirement) and I do not think I can claim points for any of our other PT staff (have had several but it is the FT i.e. 30 hr p/w for 12 mon during extension period that has been tricky). I wonder if there is any evidence on this forum where a letter to the CW have helped with such matters? Maybe am being too optimistic on that front!

Thanks for the help.
Why do you think you can't use the PT staff ?
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

rayuk
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by rayuk » Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:07 pm

This is what I understood from the Policy Guidance.

Pre 6 April 2014 transitional arrangement- job creation
If you successfully applied to enter and have continually remained in the route since before 6 April 2014, and you are making an extension application or a settlement application, you may continue to employ (and score points for job creation for):
• 1 worker for 24 months
• 1 worker for 6 months and one for 18 months
• 4 workers for 6 months each
Please note: This transitional arrangement will come to an end on 6 April 2019. If you intend to make an extension or settlement application on or after 6 April 2019, you will not be able to rely on this transitional arrangement.

My initial T-1E application made Feb-2013. Successful ca. Nov-2014.
As I understood, while I qualify under transitional arrangement, BUT it has now come to an end.

My previous FT jobs continued until Aug-2018, ca. 9 months beyond my previous extension application, thereafter I have had several PT staff and 2 x FT staff again from Aug-19, but one of them could be deemed short of the 30 hr p/w rule.

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marcnath
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by marcnath » Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:48 pm

rayuk wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:07 pm
This is what I understood from the Policy Guidance.

Pre 6 April 2014 transitional arrangement- job creation
If you successfully applied to enter and have continually remained in the route since before 6 April 2014, and you are making an extension application or a settlement application, you may continue to employ (and score points for job creation for):
• 1 worker for 24 months
• 1 worker for 6 months and one for 18 months
• 4 workers for 6 months each
Please note: This transitional arrangement will come to an end on 6 April 2019. If you intend to make an extension or settlement application on or after 6 April 2019, you will not be able to rely on this transitional arrangement.

My initial T-1E application made Feb-2013. Successful ca. Nov-2014.
As I understood, while I qualify under transitional arrangement, BUT it has now come to an end.

My previous FT jobs continued until Aug-2018, ca. 9 months beyond my previous extension application, thereafter I have had several PT staff and 2 x FT staff again from Aug-19, but one of them could be deemed short of the 30 hr p/w rule.
You are right in that you do not qualify for the transitional arrangements. But the transitional arrangements have nothing to do with PT and FT jobs anyway - that never changed.

PT jobs were allowed before and after the changes.

While previously, you could combine different PT jobs very flexibly, the new rules require each PT job to have existed for 12 months each.

So, if you had another PT job that existed for 12 months (does not need to be continuous), you can combine it with this job to meet the requirement.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Anontier20
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by Anontier20 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:58 pm

marcnath wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:12 pm
rayuk wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:05 pm
Thanks, I have gone through the Covid-19 posts (could be a useful fallback to explore).

The key point to this regard made by @marcnath 'two jobs of 30 hrs/week each.'.

My confusion is if I could fall short of this 30 hrs/ week in certain months having 31 days or as long as annual Hours are above 1560 it is OK?
Thanks again.
Again, the only thing specified in the immigration rules is 30 hrs/week. There is no official requirement of 130 hrs/month. Similarly 1560 annually is not ok either.

If you have a month that has 31 days, then it is 4 weeks and 3 days.

So, your calculation actually is 1050/4.43/8.21 = 28.9 hrs/wk, which is short of the requirement.

Not sure how you arrived at the £1050 figure. If you employees are working 30 hrs/week, you are paying them below minimum wage. At minimum wage, the monthly salary should be 1,067.30.

This is a good calculator for that - https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly.php
I know you Mods don't like me asking questions on other people's pages but to save repetition for Marcnath,how should it be calculated the 30 hours per week to ensure that there is no shortage what so ever? Would it better to take a round figure of say 32 hours per week instead which makes 1664 hours a year? Glad I just spotted this.
Thanks

rayuk
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Posts: 56
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by rayuk » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:31 am

marcnath wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:48 pm
rayuk wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:07 pm
This is what I understood from the Policy Guidance.

Pre 6 April 2014 transitional arrangement- job creation
If you successfully applied to enter and have continually remained in the route since before 6 April 2014, and you are making an extension application or a settlement application, you may continue to employ (and score points for job creation for):
• 1 worker for 24 months
• 1 worker for 6 months and one for 18 months
• 4 workers for 6 months each
Please note: This transitional arrangement will come to an end on 6 April 2019. If you intend to make an extension or settlement application on or after 6 April 2019, you will not be able to rely on this transitional arrangement.

My initial T-1E application made Feb-2013. Successful ca. Nov-2014.
As I understood, while I qualify under transitional arrangement, BUT it has now come to an end.

My previous FT jobs continued until Aug-2018, ca. 9 months beyond my previous extension application, thereafter I have had several PT staff and 2 x FT staff again from Aug-19, but one of them could be deemed short of the 30 hr p/w rule.
You are right in that you do not qualify for the transitional arrangements. But the transitional arrangements have nothing to do with PT and FT jobs anyway - that never changed.

PT jobs were allowed before and after the changes.

While previously, you could combine different PT jobs very flexibly, the new rules require each PT job to have existed for 12 months each.

So, if you had another PT job that existed for 12 months (does not need to be continuous), you can combine it with this job to meet the requirement.
That's very helpful @marcnath I was not aware that I could do this. I am going to go over the policy guidance and rules in more detail to decide on the route forward.

rayuk
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by rayuk » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:36 am

Anontier20 wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:58 pm
marcnath wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:12 pm
rayuk wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:05 pm
Thanks, I have gone through the Covid-19 posts (could be a useful fallback to explore).

The key point to this regard made by @marcnath 'two jobs of 30 hrs/week each.'.

My confusion is if I could fall short of this 30 hrs/ week in certain months having 31 days or as long as annual Hours are above 1560 it is OK?
Thanks again.
Again, the only thing specified in the immigration rules is 30 hrs/week. There is no official requirement of 130 hrs/month. Similarly, 1560 annually is not ok either.

If you have a month that has 31 days, then it is 4 weeks and 3 days.

So, your calculation actually is 1050/4.43/8.21 = 28.9 hrs/wk, which is short of the requirement.

Not sure how you arrived at the £1050 figure. If you employees are working 30 hrs/week, you are paying them below minimum wage. At minimum wage, the monthly salary should be 1,067.30.

This is a good calculator for that - https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly.php
I know you Mods don't like me asking questions on other people's pages but to save repetition for Marcnath,how should it be calculated the 30 hours per week to ensure that there is no shortage what so ever? Would it better to take a round figure of say 32 hours per week instead which makes 1664 hours a year? Glad I just spotted this.
Thanks
As @marcnath pointed out 30 hr p/w is the min. requirement, you can have 32 hr p/w or more just watch out if you are paying Monthly instead of Hourly wage that this requirement is still met (which is what I initially overlooked).

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marcnath
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by marcnath » Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:48 pm

If you are on a Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa and your business has been disrupted
You no longer need to employ at least 2 people for 12 consecutive months each. The 12 month period you are required to employ someone for can be made up of multiple employees across different months.

Time when your employees were furloughed will not count towards the 12 month period.

If have not been able to employ staff for 12 months in total by the time your visa expires, you will be allowed to temporarily extend your stay to give you time to meet the requirement.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Anontier20
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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by Anontier20 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:13 am

marcnath wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:48 pm
If you are on a Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa and your business has been disrupted
You no longer need to employ at least 2 people for 12 consecutive months each. The 12 month period you are required to employ someone for can be made up of multiple employees across different months.

Time when your employees were furloughed will not count towards the 12 month period.

If have not been able to employ staff for 12 months in total by the time your visa expires, you will be allowed to temporarily extend your stay to give you time to meet the requirement.
How would this work? Are you able to illustrate with an example? Is it better to grin and bear it for 2 jobs and 30 plus hours then go in for in extension and the trauma and costs in entails? If you are able to pay the 2 jobs and the 30 plus hours, shall we just carry on?

Anontier20
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Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:06 pm
Afghanistan

Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by Anontier20 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:14 am

rayuk wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:36 am
Anontier20 wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:58 pm
marcnath wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:12 pm
rayuk wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 5:05 pm
Thanks, I have gone through the Covid-19 posts (could be a useful fallback to explore).

The key point to this regard made by @marcnath 'two jobs of 30 hrs/week each.'.

My confusion is if I could fall short of this 30 hrs/ week in certain months having 31 days or as long as annual Hours are above 1560 it is OK?
Thanks again.
Again, the only thing specified in the immigration rules is 30 hrs/week. There is no official requirement of 130 hrs/month. Similarly, 1560 annually is not ok either.

If you have a month that has 31 days, then it is 4 weeks and 3 days.

So, your calculation actually is 1050/4.43/8.21 = 28.9 hrs/wk, which is short of the requirement.

Not sure how you arrived at the £1050 figure. If you employees are working 30 hrs/week, you are paying them below minimum wage. At minimum wage, the monthly salary should be 1,067.30.

This is a good calculator for that - https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/hourly.php
I know you Mods don't like me asking questions on other people's pages but to save repetition for Marcnath,how should it be calculated the 30 hours per week to ensure that there is no shortage what so ever? Would it better to take a round figure of say 32 hours per week instead which makes 1664 hours a year? Glad I just spotted this.
Thanks
As @marcnath pointed out 30 hr p/w is the min. requirement, you can have 32 hr p/w or more just watch out if you are paying Monthly instead of Hourly wage that this requirement is still met (which is what I initially overlooked).
Yes so it would be 32 x £8.72 per week right?

Anontier20
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Posts: 57
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Afghanistan

Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by Anontier20 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:24 am

Anontier20 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:13 am
marcnath wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:48 pm
If you are on a Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa and your business has been disrupted
You no longer need to employ at least 2 people for 12 consecutive months each. The 12 month period you are required to employ someone for can be made up of multiple employees across different months.

Time when your employees were furloughed will not count towards the 12 month period.

If have not been able to employ staff for 12 months in total by the time your visa expires, you will be allowed to temporarily extend your stay to give you time to meet the requirement.
How would this work? Are you able to illustrate with an example? Is it better to grin and bear it for 2 jobs and 30 plus hours then go in for in extension and the trauma and costs in entails? If you are able to pay the 2 jobs and the 30 plus hours, shall we just carry on?
I don't think I actually understand this, so is it similar to the transitional agreement, just one job/ one staff member to qualify for the points? Or they still want 2 jobs, just with an extension option if requirements not met? For eg, if my visa is expiring 2nd May 2021, with no employees so far, what should I do to ensure I can apply for settlement?

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Re: Advice on Job Creation current scenario

Post by CR001 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:47 am

Anontier20 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:24 am
Anontier20 wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:13 am
marcnath wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:48 pm
If you are on a Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa and your business has been disrupted
You no longer need to employ at least 2 people for 12 consecutive months each. The 12 month period you are required to employ someone for can be made up of multiple employees across different months.

Time when your employees were furloughed will not count towards the 12 month period.

If have not been able to employ staff for 12 months in total by the time your visa expires, you will be allowed to temporarily extend your stay to give you time to meet the requirement.
How would this work? Are you able to illustrate with an example? Is it better to grin and bear it for 2 jobs and 30 plus hours then go in for in extension and the trauma and costs in entails? If you are able to pay the 2 jobs and the 30 plus hours, shall we just carry on?
I don't think I actually understand this, so is it similar to the transitional agreement, just one job/ one staff member to qualify for the points? Or they still want 2 jobs, just with an extension option if requirements not met? For eg, if my visa is expiring 2nd May 2021, with no employees so far, what should I do to ensure I can apply for settlement?
Can you please continue your questions in your own existing topic you already have instead of tagging on here. It is unfair to the op of this topic that you continue posting your questions. It also creates confusion when members respond.
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Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

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