Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

bizman · Post by **bizman** » Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:11 am

This is new to me and I have not heard about anybody that had the same experience, I however think since MA is statutory then it will not be a problem, she is still in your employment only on maternity leave which is legally paid for by government. I believe if you can get evidences of payments she had from government and you explain the circumstance in a covering letter to HO, you should be ok.

Post by **marcnath** » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:09 pm

There was a case here that was rejected initially but approved on AR.

Since the requirement is to create a job paid as per regulations, not necessarily to pay X amount, it is my view that it should be accepted.

grreg · Post by **grreg** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:20 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:20 am
Hi Team,

One of my employee have been working with me for 6 months and then she give birth, so she start receiving MA from the government, and the salary from my company side equal zero,

At the moment, she had been with my company for 12 months, 6 of them receiving salary and the last 6 with no salary (zero working hours as she are not allowed to work while receiving MA) as she is receiving MA from the government,

The accountant still preparing payslip for her monthly, and her record still the same with zero salary on the monthly full payment submission (FPS) submitted monthly (until now) to HMRC,

My question is:

Does she will be classified by HO the she have been working for the 12 months?, or they will only classified her to be working for the first 6 months (which she earned salary on them and with over 30hrs work per week working hours)?

I couldn't have an answer for this, and the accountant doesn't know,

Looking forward for your valuable advice,

Thanks in advance.

Hi tier1entrepreneur - did you get an answer regarding your staff member on Maternity Leave? I have the same situation. Would appreciate if you have any info about that.

Greg

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:13 am

grreg wrote: ↑
Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:20 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:20 am
Hi Team,

One of my employee have been working with me for 6 months and then she give birth, so she start receiving MA from the government, and the salary from my company side equal zero,

At the moment, she had been with my company for 12 months, 6 of them receiving salary and the last 6 with no salary (zero working hours as she are not allowed to work while receiving MA) as she is receiving MA from the government,

The accountant still preparing payslip for her monthly, and her record still the same with zero salary on the monthly full payment submission (FPS) submitted monthly (until now) to HMRC,

My question is:

Does she will be classified by HO the she have been working for the 12 months?, or they will only classified her to be working for the first 6 months (which she earned salary on them and with over 30hrs work per week working hours)?

I couldn't have an answer for this, and the accountant doesn't know,

Looking forward for your valuable advice,

Thanks in advance.
Hi tier1entrepreneur - did you get an answer regarding your staff member on Maternity Leave? I have the same situation. Would appreciate if you have any info about that.

Greg

Hi Greg,

In my case, the employee will return back after her leave and will continue working for me, and she will be over two years working with me before my visa extension application submission, so I plan to ignore the 9 months leave, and I will submit other 12 months payslips, just to be safe

Best Regards.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:22 am

Hi Team,

One of my employee "A" is working in job role X for over a year, and I need to use him in another job role Y within the same company, It will be different job roles and job description, totally different tasks.

My question is:

Am I will be able to classify it as two jobs during my accelerated ILR application (even if he is the same employee)?

(FYI, I have other employees working on my company other than that employee)

Do I will have to submit his document twice on the accelerated ILR application, one with each job role, and included job description?

Thanks in advance for your support.

Post by **marcnath** » Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:43 am

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:22 am
Hi Team,

One of my employee "A" is working in job role X for over a year, and I need to use him in another job role Y within the same company, It will be different job roles and job description, totally different tasks.

My question is:

Am I will be able to classify it as two jobs during my accelerated ILR application (even if he is the same employee)?

(FYI, I have other employees working on my company other than that employee)

Do I will have to submit his document twice on the accelerated ILR application, one with each job role, and included job description?

Thanks in advance for your support.

Are you filling job role X with another employee once A moves to job Y ?

While a strict reading of the immigration rules should mean that you can do that, I am very doubtful HO will accept. Otherwise people could just hire 4 persons (for example) and change their roles every year to create 12 FT job equivalent.

If you have very good justification for why one job has to end and a new one created and you are prepared to take it to court if needed, I would think it would be possible. But take a professional legal advice.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:03 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:43 am

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 20, 2019 5:22 am
Hi Team,

One of my employee "A" is working in job role X for over a year, and I need to use him in another job role Y within the same company, It will be different job roles and job description, totally different tasks.

My question is:

Am I will be able to classify it as two jobs during my accelerated ILR application (even if he is the same employee)?

(FYI, I have other employees working on my company other than that employee)

Do I will have to submit his document twice on the accelerated ILR application, one with each job role, and included job description?

Thanks in advance for your support.
Are you filling job role X with another employee once A moves to job Y ?

While a strict reading of the immigration rules should mean that you can do that, I am very doubtful HO will accept. Otherwise people could just hire 4 persons (for example) and change their roles every year to create 12 FT job equivalent.

If you have very good justification for why one job has to end and a new one created and you are prepared to take it to court if needed, I would think it would be possible. But take a professional legal advice.

Thanks marcnath for your clarification, it's much appreciated,
Seems to be that to be safe; not to count employee A when change his roles to job Y (only one Job when count him toward the required employment by HO).

Many thanks for your valuable advice.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:29 pm

Hi Team,

My company year end on 31st Jan, I will apply for visa extension or ILR before 31st Jan, what will be the documents I need to submit for the company accounts for the last few months pre my visa application, for example:

Company year end on the 31st Jan, application date for extension will be 1st Dec, which mean that I only have two years company end of year accounts,

My question is:

Do I need to change the end of year date for say 31st Oct instead of 31st Jan, so I can complete the company end of year account for the third year and submit with my application the accounts for three years,

OR

I can ask the accountant to prepare a summary report for the company for up to 30th Nov and submit with my application the end of year accounts for the first two years plus this document from the accountant for the few months the third year,

OR

It's not required to submit the accountant documents for the last year, and I can just prepare a summary from my bookkeeping highlight the company turn over and the director loan balance, and the company balance just before the date of application.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks in advance.

Post by **marcnath** » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:56 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:29 pm
Hi Team,

My company year end on 31st Jan, I will apply for visa extension or ILR before 31st Jan, what will be the documents I need to submit for the company accounts for the last few months pre my visa application, for example:

Company year end on the 31st Jan, application date for extension will be 1st Dec, which mean that I only have two years company end of year accounts,

My question is:

Do I need to change the end of year date for say 31st Oct instead of 31st Jan, so I can complete the company end of year account for the third year and submit with my application the accounts for three years,

OR

I can ask the accountant to prepare a summary report for the company for up to 30th Nov and submit with my application the end of year accounts for the first two years plus this document from the accountant for the few months the third year,

OR

It's not required to submit the accountant documents for the last year, and I can just prepare a summary from my bookkeeping highlight the company turn over and the director loan balance, and the company balance just before the date of application.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks in advance.

You only need one set of accounts - it does not matter which year as long as your investment is shown in the accounts you submit.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:24 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:56 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:29 pm

You only need one set of accounts - it does not matter which year as long as your investment is shown in the accounts you submit.

Thanks marcnath for your clarification, it's much appreciated,

Does this means that if my investment (£200k) have been transferred from my personal bank account to the company bank account in year two, and it clearly highlighted on year two end of year accounts, this will mean that no need to submit any documents for year three (ongoing at time of ILR/extension application submission)?

How HO will confirm that the investment remain on the company bank account on year three (i.e Director's loan not been refunded), and how they will check the company progress/turnover for year three if no document submitted as part of my application?,

Do I miss any document will need to be submitted for year three?

I understand that I will need to submit the bank statement for the days of money transfer from my personal bank account to the business bank account "Directors loan", any more document required wrt to bookkeeping documents and bank statements for the three years?

Thanks in advance.

Post by **marcnath** » Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:33 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:24 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:56 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:29 pm

You only need one set of accounts - it does not matter which year as long as your investment is shown in the accounts you submit.
Thanks marcnath for your clarification, it's much appreciated,

Does this means that if my investment (£200k) have been transferred from my personal bank account to the company bank account in year two, and it clearly highlighted on year two end of year accounts, this will mean that no need to submit any documents for year three (ongoing at time of ILR/extension application submission)?

That is correct. You don't need to submit accounts for Year 1 either.

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:24 pm

How HO will confirm that the investment remain on the company bank account on year three (i.e Director's loan not been refunded), and how they will check the company progress/turnover for year three if no document submitted as part of my application?,

Appreciate your concern for being very considerate about how the CW will do his/her job. But you will be much better off focusing on what you should be doing rather than trying to explore all kind of probablities.
Your time is much better spent reading and rereading the guidance and making sure you are meeting the requirements set out there.
HO/CW will do their job and request additional documents if they so require.

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:24 pm

Do I miss any document will need to be submitted for year three?

I understand that I will need to submit the bank statement for the days of money transfer from my personal bank account to the business bank account "Directors loan", any more document required wrt to bookkeeping documents and bank statements for the three years?

Thanks in advance.

No

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:22 am

[quote=marcnath post_id=1807258 time=1564151581 user_id=76145]
[quote=tier1entrepreneur-A post_id=1807255 time=1564151072 user_id=185661]
[quote=marcnath post_id=1806271 time=1563915372 user_id=76145]
[quote=tier1entrepreneur-A post_id=1806202 time=1563899379 user_id=185661]

Thanks marcnath for your clarification, it's much appreciated.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:32 am

Hi Team,

I'm a sole director and shareholder on Company A "where I'm investing the £200k", and in the meantime I'm a director with others in company B, I totally understand that I will submit companies house documents for both.

I will use company B for job creation only,

Do I will need to submit company accounts for company A and B, or I will need to submit company accounts for company A only on which I have invest the £200k?

Thanks in advance.

bizman · Post by **bizman** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:58 am

Company account is evidence for investment and it is logical that the same investment create 2 jobs, you need to have proofs or the two.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:46 pm

bizman wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:58 am
Company account is evidence for investment and it is logical that the same investment create 2 jobs, you need to have proofs or the two.

Thanks bizman for your reply, it's much appreciated,

The two jobs already created on company A (where the fund £200k has been invested) and I will submit the company end of year accounts, company B will create additional jobs (zero money invested from my side), and my role on company B is mainly as a director, and I have a percentage as shareholder based on my director position (involved on day to day activities),

So all my investments are on company A, so I'm thinking that may be the required account documents (company end of year accounts) will be required for company A only.

I just don't want to submit any document may be not required.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Thanks in advance.

bizman · Post by **bizman** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:38 pm

Yes you are correct. You don’t actually need to submit anything from company B as it is not the company that you invested into. Send just company A accounts.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:31 pm

bizman wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:38 pm
Yes you are correct. You don’t actually need to submit anything from company B as it is not the company that you invested into. Send just company A accounts.

Thanks Bizman,

I will use company B to prove FOUR jobs creation, so in total company A and B will prove TEN jobs have been created, my understanding is that I still don't need to submit accounts documents for company B (as the £200k investments are on company A only), is that correct?

Thanks in advance.

Post by **marcnath** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:14 pm

tier1entrepreneur-A wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:31 pm

bizman wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:38 pm
Yes you are correct. You don’t actually need to submit anything from company B as it is not the company that you invested into. Send just company A accounts.
Thanks Bizman,

I will use company B to prove FOUR jobs creation, so in total company A and B will prove TEN jobs have been created, my understanding is that I still don't need to submit accounts documents for company B (as the £200k investments are on company A only), is that correct?

Thanks in advance.

Correct

bizman · Post by **bizman** » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:32 pm

Yes that’s correct.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:59 am

Hi Team,

I'm a director of a limited company with others (other than my main one), and the accountant provide each month three documents which are:
(1) Period summary (using 12 Pay software) which include all employee names, NI code, taxable pay Employee NI, Employer NI, Net Pay
(2) Updated copy of P32 (Employer Payment summary),
(3) Employee payslips on monthly basis,

My question is:

Does document (1) and (2) above will be classified as RTI-FPS as per Home office requirements?

Thanks in advance.

bizman · Post by **bizman** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:56 am

They are not classified as RTI/FPS. Why don’t you ask your accountant to submit Full Payment submission for you monthly to HMRC. It Real Time Information. This is very essential for both your extension and ILR.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:08 pm

bizman wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:56 am
They are not classified as RTI/FPS. Why don’t you ask your accountant to submit Full Payment submission for you monthly to HMRC. It Real Time Information. This is very essential for both your extension and ILR.

Many thanks bizman for your clarification, it's much appreciated, I will push to have the RTI/FPS document from him, I thought P32 may be an alternative which is not.

Thanks again.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:34 am

Hi Team,

My main company -I'm the only director/shareholder- accountant send to me monthly the FPS document including all the company employees, which is a document of 5 pages every month. I have asked my accountant if she can have FPS for each employee separately, but she told me that the FPS she submit to HMRC should include all the company employees and she cannot split it.

Wrt the documents I will need to submit for each job created, I understand that it will include the FPS and payslips for the qualified 12 month period.

This will mean that for each job I have to submit the following:
FPS X 12 month (which will be in my case 5 pages X 12 = 60 pages)
Payslips X 12 month = 12 pages

I'm planning to make a file for each Job created including FPS, payslips, passport copy, confirmation of first day of employment (which stated on the first FPS after employing this employee), P60 ... which will mean that in my case I will need to submit approx. 70 pages file for each job created ..

Is my understanding right, or I miss something?

Thanks in advance.

bizman · Post by **bizman** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:42 pm

Your accountant is right, you just need to submit twelve FPS for the employees depending on your circumstance as it includes all the employees for each month. In situations where the employees worked at different times say one works from January to a December and the other from March of the same year to February the next year, it will be more than twelve to cover both.

tier1entrepreneur-A · Post by **tier1entrepreneur-A** » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:23 pm

Thanks bizman,

Does this will mean that submitting around 70 pages for each job created will be normal?

Sure it will be ok from my side, I just will scan them and organize them with a cover letter(s), but I'm asking if this is what everyone do to submit all these pages to HO/CW.

Thanks in advance.

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