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Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, Zimba

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tier1entrepreneur-AA
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Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:49 pm
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Re: Job creation

Post by tier1entrepreneur-AA » Sun May 17, 2020 10:13 pm

marcnath wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:30 pm
tier1entrepreneur-AA wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:40 pm
Hi Team,

I'm currently holding Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa since Jan 2018, and I'm looking forward to apply for accelerated ILR (3 years route) in Dec 2020, I will be able to count by the end of 2020 10 FT jobs,
I have 8 positions straightforward, but I have inquiries with regards to two positions.

Q1: One of the employees (Employee A) has left one position (position Y) in Oct 2019 after been working for the company for 22 continuous months, and then she rejoined the company in Jan 2020 to fulfill another job (position Z) for 12 months, does this will be ok to be classified as 2 jobs (but one position filled with an employee, and the same employee partially filled the other position in different period).
In summary:
Position Y: created in Jan 2018
From Jan 2018 to Oct 2019 - Employee A (over 12 months full time and the rest part time), and may be another employee will join the company at some point in 2020
Position Z: created in Jan 2020
Jan 2018 to Dec 2020 - Employee A (12 months)
My question is:
Does the above classified as two jobs have been created 12 months or more for each?

Q2: Another employee (B) been working for the company for almost two years in position X, and then an employee filling position M have left the company after been working for the company for three months, and then employee (B) left position X to position M for additional 9 months, does position M will be classified as one job been created for 12 months?
In summary:
Position X : created in June 2018
From June 2018 to March 2020 - Employee B (over 12 months FT), and from April this position is no longer required (use freelancers).
Position M : created in Jan 2020
From Jan 2020 to Mar 2020 - Employee M FT (3 Months)
From April 2020 to Dec 2020 - Employee B (who was filling position X previously) filled position M for 9 months FT.
My question is:
Does position M will be classified as a 12 months FT position (and Employee B 9 months work will be added to the 3 months work to complete the 12 months period)?

I'm start preparing to sort out all the required paperwork to be ready in Dec 2020 for ILR application (accelerated route - 3 years).

I'm wondering if you can help with my inquiries above,

Thanks in advance.
The immigration rules do not go into that level of specifics to be able to answer your questions.

The rules only specify that you need to have two jobs - nothing is specified about the employees who complete the roles. Which means, as per the rules, your way of doing that is totally justified.

However, HO can always question the genuineness, so it is entirely depends on how well you can argue this (if HO challenges it) and you need to be confident enough for it to stand up in court, if needed.

The few questions that I would have would be justification for this. Jobs have specifications and employees generally have meet certain qualifications. So, it normally is difficult to justify the same employee filling two very different job specifications. If the job specifications are similar, then it is difficult to justify they are different jobs unless both are being filled at the same time.
Many thanks marcnath for your valuable comment,

I will need to make it clear on my ILR application to the HO case worker to explain those two employees A and B, so he/she can find the answer to any question on his/her mind,
Note: I have 8 straightforward jobs have been created, I'm just worrying about the last two (position Z and M as explained above)

Also, I intend to add to my application my business structure diagram, and a table for each job covering the whole three years period explaining job/position filling (i.e. name, national insurance, ...... ) including ILR/British holder as well as non ILR/British employees.

If you have any advice on how I should make it clearer to the case worker, it will be much appreciated,

Thanks in advance.

tier1entrepreneur-AA
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:49 pm
Mood:

Re: Job creation

Post by tier1entrepreneur-AA » Wed May 20, 2020 6:21 pm

tier1entrepreneur-AA wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:13 pm
marcnath wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:30 pm
tier1entrepreneur-AA wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:40 pm
Hi Team,

I'm currently holding Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa since Jan 2018, and I'm looking forward to apply for accelerated ILR (3 years route) in Dec 2020, I will be able to count by the end of 2020 10 FT jobs,
I have 8 positions straightforward, but I have inquiries with regards to two positions.

Q1: One of the employees (Employee A) has left one position (position Y) in Oct 2019 after been working for the company for 22 continuous months, and then she rejoined the company in Jan 2020 to fulfill another job (position Z) for 12 months, does this will be ok to be classified as 2 jobs (but one position filled with an employee, and the same employee partially filled the other position in different period).
In summary:
Position Y: created in Jan 2018
From Jan 2018 to Oct 2019 - Employee A (over 12 months full time and the rest part time), and may be another employee will join the company at some point in 2020
Position Z: created in Jan 2020
Jan 2018 to Dec 2020 - Employee A (12 months)
My question is:
Does the above classified as two jobs have been created 12 months or more for each?

Q2: Another employee (B) been working for the company for almost two years in position X, and then an employee filling position M have left the company after been working for the company for three months, and then employee (B) left position X to position M for additional 9 months, does position M will be classified as one job been created for 12 months?
In summary:
Position X : created in June 2018
From June 2018 to March 2020 - Employee B (over 12 months FT), and from April this position is no longer required (use freelancers).
Position M : created in Jan 2020
From Jan 2020 to Mar 2020 - Employee M FT (3 Months)
From April 2020 to Dec 2020 - Employee B (who was filling position X previously) filled position M for 9 months FT.
My question is:
Does position M will be classified as a 12 months FT position (and Employee B 9 months work will be added to the 3 months work to complete the 12 months period)?

I'm start preparing to sort out all the required paperwork to be ready in Dec 2020 for ILR application (accelerated route - 3 years).

I'm wondering if you can help with my inquiries above,

Thanks in advance.
The immigration rules do not go into that level of specifics to be able to answer your questions.

The rules only specify that you need to have two jobs - nothing is specified about the employees who complete the roles. Which means, as per the rules, your way of doing that is totally justified.

However, HO can always question the genuineness, so it is entirely depends on how well you can argue this (if HO challenges it) and you need to be confident enough for it to stand up in court, if needed.

The few questions that I would have would be justification for this. Jobs have specifications and employees generally have meet certain qualifications. So, it normally is difficult to justify the same employee filling two very different job specifications. If the job specifications are similar, then it is difficult to justify they are different jobs unless both are being filled at the same time.
Many thanks marcnath for your valuable comment,

I will need to make it clear on my ILR application to the HO case worker to explain those two employees A and B, so he/she can find the answer to any question on his/her mind,
Note: I have 8 straightforward jobs have been created, I'm just worrying about the last two (position Z and M as explained above)

Also, I intend to add to my application my business structure diagram, and a table for each job covering the whole three years period explaining job/position filling (i.e. name, national insurance, ...... ) including ILR/British holder as well as non ILR/British employees.

If you have any advice on how I should make it clearer to the case worker, it will be much appreciated,

Thanks in advance.
Hi Team,

Any advice on the above?

Thanks in advance.

User avatar
marcnath
Moderator
Posts: 5910
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Post by marcnath » Thu May 21, 2020 7:41 pm

There is nothing to add here. Additional documents are entirely up to you and your suggestion is as good as any I can think of.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-AA
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:49 pm
Mood:

Re: Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Post by tier1entrepreneur-AA » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:39 am

marcnath wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:41 pm
There is nothing to add here. Additional documents are entirely up to you and your suggestion is as good as any I can think of.
Thanks marcnath, much appreciate your comment.

tier1entrepreneur-AA
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:49 pm
Mood:

shorten the company's financial year

Post by tier1entrepreneur-AA » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:54 am

Hi Team,

My limited company year end on the 31st Jan, and I intend to submit my ILR (3 years rout) application early Jan,

First question:

I'm thinking that it will be better if I shorten the company financial year, so it ends on 31st October 2020 instead of 31st Jan 2021, to allow the accountant enough time to prepare the company end of year accounts to be submitted with my application early Jan as a prove that the business is running (prove of genuity), what's your thought.

Second question:

Another point, one of the roles will complete the 12 months end of Dec 2020, I'm thinking to submit an early submition to HMRC for Dec 2020, does this will allow me to do my ILR application in Dec 2020 instead of Jan 2021 ?(i.e. to fulfill the requirement for HO), I understand that it fill the requirement for HMRC, but I don't know if HO will accept that or they will say that at the day of my visa application (i.e 10th Dec 2020), employee X is not employed for 12 months (as he will complete his 12 months in 31st Dec 2020)?

Thanks in advance.

User avatar
marcnath
Moderator
Posts: 5910
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Post by marcnath » Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:27 pm

1st: you don't need accounts for your ILR

2nd: you can do that
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-AA
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:49 pm
Mood:

Investment prove and Early FPS to HMRC

Post by tier1entrepreneur-AA » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:26 pm

marcnath wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:27 pm
1st: you don't need accounts for your ILR

2nd: you can do that
Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

1st: I assume the company accounts is required to show the investment clearly stated, as a prove of investment, isn't it?
Does a Management account for all the three years highlighting the director's loan figure as well as the investment/spent figure will be useful in addition to the bank statements for transaction?

2nd: Does the home office will calculate ignore the last month (i.e. Dec 2020) if I submitted my visa application pre the completion of the 12 months period (even if I have submitted the Early FPS submission for this month)? any explanation for this point, as I'm worrying if the HO ignore Dec 2020 counting due to early FPS I will be able to count 4 jobs which will complete in Dec thier 12 months periods.

Thanks in advance.

User avatar
marcnath
Moderator
Posts: 5910
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Investment prove and Early FPS to HMRC

Post by marcnath » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:29 pm

tier1entrepreneur-AA wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:26 pm
marcnath wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:27 pm
1st: you don't need accounts for your ILR

2nd: you can do that
Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

1st: I assume the company accounts is required to show the investment clearly stated, as a prove of investment, isn't it?
Does a Management account for all the three years highlighting the director's loan figure as well as the investment/spent figure will be useful in addition to the bank statements for transaction?

2nd: Does the home office will calculate ignore the last month (i.e. Dec 2020) if I submitted my visa application pre the completion of the 12 months period (even if I have submitted the Early FPS submission for this month)? any explanation for this point, as I'm worrying if the HO ignore Dec 2020 counting due to early FPS I will be able to count 4 jobs which will complete in Dec thier 12 months periods.

Thanks in advance.
1st - you have already been given points for your investment at extension, so there is no need prove it again.

2nd - I cannot predict what HO will do, but the only requirement under immigration rules is that the jobs must have been created in the latest period of grant (i.e. extension period). There is no requirement that it should be created before you submit the application.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

tier1entrepreneur-AA
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:49 pm
Mood:

Re: Investment prove and Early FPS to HMRC

Post by tier1entrepreneur-AA » Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:58 pm

marcnath wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:29 pm
tier1entrepreneur-AA wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:26 pm
marcnath wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:27 pm
1st: you don't need accounts for your ILR

2nd: you can do that
Thanks marcnath for your reply, it's much appreciated,

1st: I assume the company accounts is required to show the investment clearly stated, as a prove of investment, isn't it?
Does a Management account for all the three years highlighting the director's loan figure as well as the investment/spent figure will be useful in addition to the bank statements for transaction?

2nd: Does the home office will calculate ignore the last month (i.e. Dec 2020) if I submitted my visa application pre the completion of the 12 months period (even if I have submitted the Early FPS submission for this month)? any explanation for this point, as I'm worrying if the HO ignore Dec 2020 counting due to early FPS I will be able to count 4 jobs which will complete in Dec thier 12 months periods.

Thanks in advance.
1st - you have already been given points for your investment at extension, so there is no need prove it again.

2nd - I cannot predict what HO will do, but the only requirement under immigration rules is that the jobs must have been created in the latest period of grant (i.e. extension period). There is no requirement that it should be created before you submit the application.

Thanks marcnath for your quick response, it's much appreciated,

The application I prepare to submit is Tier 1 ILR Accelerated route (3 years, 10 employee), so I haven't submit any prove of investment yet,

Looking forward to hearing from you your thoughts based on the fact I have highlighted above.

Thanks in Advance.

User avatar
marcnath
Moderator
Posts: 5910
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Director's Loan agreement and Fund transfer

Post by marcnath » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:09 pm

Ok. I missed that.
Yes, you need to show your investment. You only need one set of accounts and it can be the management accounts for part of the year.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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