Evidencing the investment - per Guidance

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:41 pm

@marcnath / @Zimba88

As you may remember, I have invested 200K by way of Share capital (that too in the 3rd/last year of my grant), Do you think:

1) providing only the latest accounts (which will be due after end of Jan 2018) is enough ? or should I provide all the 3 years of accounts (I have those, no issues providing though).
2) that I need to provide any other document to show my investment (like, share certificate)
3) Are 'Share certificates' an acceptable document at all? (I don't remember where I read that share certificates can be submitted).
4) I am sure business bank statements are not required, if invested by way of share capital.

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:17 pm

Next question, in addition to above question:

Application form - page 43 (Section N) - Created two full time equivalent posts

: Section N.JPG (48.45 KiB) Viewed 1232 times

Out of 6 options given, I have choosen

First Option - Ticked - Documents - Passport and Residence permit
Second Option - Ticked - Documents - CAR
Third Option - Left Blank
Fourth Option - Left Blank
Fifth Option - Ticked - Documents - RTI/FPS (having start and end date)
Sixth Option - Ticket - Payslips (covering full period claimed)

Firstly, I hope the documents, I have quoted against these options are sufficient to prove Job creation. Kindly confirm.

Second, I am bit concerned about Fourth Option - Employee Payment Records, original HM Revenue & customs P45 or P46 (if applicable) - Since I am providing the RTI/FPS - Do I need to tick this and provide any other documents like P11, etc. ?

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:23 pm

kaps84 wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:41 pm
@marcnath / @Zimba88

As you may remember, I have invested 200K by way of Share capital (that too in the 3rd/last year of my grant), Do you think:

1) providing only the latest accounts (which will be due after end of Jan 2018) is enough ? or should I provide all the 3 years of accounts (I have those, no issues providing though). ==> yes, just latest is fine.
2) that I need to provide any other document to show my investment (like, share certificate). ==> no, it is not a specified document
3) Are 'Share certificates' an acceptable document at all? (I don't remember where I read that share certificates can be submitted).. ==> it is not a specified document
4) I am sure business bank statements are not required, if invested by way of share capital.
. ==> You are correct but you need a bank statement/letter as part of meeting the requirements of showing you have an uk business

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:27 pm

kaps84 wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:17 pm
Next question, in addition to above question:

Application form - page 43 (Section N) - Created two full time equivalent posts

Section N.JPG

Out of 6 options given, I have choosen

First Option - Ticked - Documents - Passport and Residence permit
Second Option - Ticked - Documents - CAR
Third Option - Left Blank
Fourth Option - Left Blank
Fifth Option - Ticked - Documents - RTI/FPS (having start and end date)
Sixth Option - Ticket - Payslips (covering full period claimed)

Firstly, I hope the documents, I have quoted against these options are sufficient to prove Job creation. Kindly confirm.

Second, I am bit concerned about Fourth Option - Employee Payment Records, original HM Revenue & customs P45 or P46 (if applicable) - Since I am providing the RTI/FPS - Do I need to tick this and provide any other documents like P11, etc. ?

You have done it correctly. Option 4 is for those you have joined a business

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:00 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:23 pm
. ==> You are correct but you need a bank statement/letter as part of meeting the requirements of showing you have an uk business

[/quote]

I will go with letter from bank here.

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:39 pm

Now a set of more silly questions:

Application page 41, Table 3b1 - Table of evidence for the direct investment of funds into UK business:

: Table 3b1.JPG (47.83 KiB) Viewed 1202 times

Which columns should I NOT fill in my case (Share capital) ?
Columns - 'letter from seed fund', 'Legal agreement' are anyways not applicable
Not sure if I have to say yes in, Business bank account* (this has a star and a corresponding foot note)

* which you are a signatory of and showing transactions, and where applicable showing the transfer of director's loan funds from the applicant to the business.

Next question, since my personal account had a limitation of 25K max transfer in any particular day, I have moved the money in about 8-10 transactions. and this table is not having enough rows to accommodate all the dates I have transferred money, what should I do?

1) Should I just extend the table myself, making additional rows?
2) I photocopy this page and put a foot note comment at the original page saying "Please see the additional sheet provided, next page"

Kindly advise.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:50 pm

As I had mentioned earlier you need to show investment into an UK business and the last three columns are mandatory for that irrespective of the type of investment.

For the additional rows you can do either but copying and adding additional pages would be what I would do.

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:51 pm

Yet more silly questions (similar to the above question - less space provided)

Application form - page 57 (Section 7 - Summary sheet)

I believe, summary sheet is to provide:

1) The list of documents and how many of each of those documents. - But the table is too small to fit all the documents that needs to be sent with the applications. (here atleast a message appears - continue on a separate sheet if necessary) - But I want to know how people have handled it? is there a right or wrong here? or what not to do?

Page 58 - Table - for points claimed:

2) I believe, this table is only to specify how many points we are claiming and against each section what documents we are sending (How many ? - came on the previous table)

- But here the space provided is even less !!

Kindly advice in detail. - Should I practice and make the font too small to read (foolish of me - ignore)

Just to let you know that I have covered all the documents I am sending in the cover letter. But for the sake of these pages in the application form - Can I put a comment saying (please refer to the cover letter ?) - or just copy the page and add additional page. (on this page - no message appears that says, continue on a separate sheet if necessary)

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:58 pm

The dumb question !! (in addition to the above - 2nd set of silly questions)

Would you send the application form (printed one sided ? or printed on both sides of the page ?)
Does it make life simpler for the case worker either way ?

Do you send all the pages from the application form or omit the pages that are not filled at all (specially if I go with single side print)

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:13 pm

Not silly but some overthinking going on.
General rule - do not depend on cover letter for anything. The instructions are very clear on that.
Cover letter may not even be read.

Duplicate the form where necessary and submit.

No harm dropping unused pages - at least I did drop them

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:24 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:13 pm
Not silly but some overthinking going on.
General rule - do not depend on cover letter for anything. The instructions are very clear on that.
Cover letter may not even be read.

Duplicate the form where necessary and submit.

No harm dropping unused pages - at least I did drop them

Yeah, I am in the overthinking mode! - Scared to see people getting rejected for silly reasons.

But now hopeful enough seeing more approvals recently and most importantly the help I have received on this forum so far. I can't thank enough to you and the helpful moderators/members on the forum.

I will stick with the suggestions

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:57 pm

Hi @marcnath, @Zimba88, Seniors,

I have another question, this time regarding dividend:

My business has been in profit throughout the duration on T1E, and I have been taking some dividend in each year. I have made my investment (share capital) in the 3rd year of the T1E term.

Here are the questions:

1) Is taking dividend an issue? (including that I have taken in the past? before investment?)

2) If not, (Particularly in my case) Can I take dividend now as well (final/3rd annual year ends in 2 days).

There is one more things to be considered here, that I am in a situation where I can make sure that my business bank account does not go below 200K (as a result of taking dividend). Kindly advise, elaborate your opinion and also suggest what you would have done been in my situation ?

I would like to accept that I really don't need dividend for my own remuneration at this point of time and I can abstain taking a dividend at-least until there is no pressing need or the extension application decision is made. However, taking dividend will be useful.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:31 pm

There are no issues with taking dividends, especially if they are less than the sales turnover.
There is no requirement to keep the bank balance at 200k - why did you ever think you needed to.
In fact your investment is expected to be spent. Having said that, it should not be an issue that you have 200k in the bank account.
There is an odd clause in the guidance (not in immigration rules though) that money in the bank without spending cannot be counted towards investment. That I believe is a protection against non genuine entrepreneurs who just put the money in until they get their extension.
Even if it does come up in an interview you can argue that your invested money has been spent and the bank balance is made up of money from your sales.

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:43 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:31 pm
There are no issues with taking dividends, especially if they are less than the sales turnover.
There is no requirement to keep the bank balance at 200k - why did you ever think you needed to. - This thought was triggered from the assumption that caseworker should not think that I took the investment money out for director remuneration. Though dividend is not a director's thing, but the person is the same. - Just from genuineness point of view.
In fact your investment is expected to be spent. Having said that, it should not be an issue that you have 200k in the bank account. - Business spendings have always been there.
There is an odd clause in the guidance (not in immigration rules though) that money in the bank without spending cannot be counted towards investment. That I believe is a protection against non genuine entrepreneurs who just put the money in until they get their extension. - I understand that and that is the source of this question.
Even if it does come up in an interview you can argue that your invested money has been spent and the bank balance is made up of money from your sales. - Very True

bizman · Post by **bizman** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:07 pm

With this I think you are good to go kapil

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:39 pm

Another question:

1 of my employees had a name change for which they provided the 'Deed poll' document copy (dated 2011). And eventually after the employment ended, this employee got the British citizenship as well (that I came to know later on).

On their Non-EU passport and BRP 'ILR' they only had their 'First Name' and NO 'Middle Name' or 'Last Name'.

In my company records all their docs (wage slips, RTI, etc) is having their full name 'First Name' and 'Last Name' since we took their 'Driving License', 'NI Number', 'Deed Poll', 'Previous P45' into account. These documents had their full name.

Now, I was reviewing my employee documents and noticed that their 'BRP' was issued (somewhere in 2013), which is after the 'Deed Poll' date. I am a bit worried, if the Deed poll existed before BRP was issued, why the BRP is not having their FULL NAME (First Name + Last Name) ?

Also, I believe, I should send their 'Deed Poll' copy with their 'Passport' and 'BRP', else the name won't match the company records (Payslips, RTI). Should I also include the copy of their 'DL' and/or 'NI Number'?

I am not planning to request their Brit Citizen passport copy since, it was issued much after the employment ended and I am not sure what's the name on that (though I assume it should be FULL Name now).

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:04 pm

@marcnath @zimba88 @bizman @seniors

zimba · Post by **zimba** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:43 pm

Yeah good idea to include a copy of deed poll

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:17 pm

So to be clear, the passport and BRP has, as an example, First name - John Smith, while the rest of the documents have First name - John and Last name - Smith.
The original NI document would have followed the passport/ BRP. If so, just attaching that will confirm it is the same person as the payslips/FPS will have the same number.
Attach the deed poll but the NI issue letter is possibly the more important one

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:28 pm

@marcnath, it’s actually only John on passport and BRP.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:42 am

kaps84 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:28 pm
@marcnath, it’s actually only John on passport and BRP.

Ok. And if you have the original letter when NI number was issued, that should be just John also.

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:49 am

Nope. It’s a NI card not letter. Card has full name.

'Driving License', 'NI Number', 'Deed Poll', 'Previous P45' , these documents have their full name.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:52 am

kaps84 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:49 am
Nope. It’s a NI card not letter. Card has full name.

'Driving License', 'NI Number', 'Deed Poll', 'Previous P45' , these documents have their full name.

Ok. It should still be fine with the Deed Poll. But you can check if he still has the initial NI registration- I would expect that to have just the first name

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:35 pm

Thanks @marcnath, @Zimba88

I tend to include driving license as well, since it has the correct address as well. ('Deed Poll', has some different address).

bizman · Post by **bizman** » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:33 pm

kaps84 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:35 pm
Thanks @marcnath, @Zimba88

I tend to include driving license as well, since it has the correct address as well. ('Deed Poll', has some different address).

That's fine Kapil

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Evidencing the investment - per Guidance

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Regarding dividend

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Employee documents

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