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In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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Nanzmaiho
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:17 am

In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by Nanzmaiho » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:45 pm

Dear all friends,

I am in a bit of a desperate situation here regarding employment hour calculation amd would like to request for your help to rectify the error to lessen the damage done. I have two employees working 30hr per week, with that respect 120hrs per month but the problem is that i paid them 'monthly' salary in minimum wage.

Also, in their payslip, it is indicated as 120 total hours and £6.70 and £7.20 minimum wage as unit rates for 2 years. I referenced application policy guidance #89 and application page# 46 where it read, 'We consider 30hrs per week/ 120 hrs per month as full time employment,' at face value and asked my accoutant to start the payroll on that basis.

Now, the problem I'm facing is that the solicitor tells me that the hours is totally wrong; it should have been 130hrs per month. And when i said the policy clearly states that they consider 120hr per month as full time provided that they are paid at least minimum wage (in my case i've paid a just a little over minimum wage in the first year), he says that statement is ambiguious and a lot of interpretation can happen in that ambiguity and 130hrs is the way to calculate the hrs according to HO.

Also, another addition to the backdrop is that when i was made aware of the short of hrs in calculation, I added one new payroll back in and now i have 2 employees atm whereas I was continuing with just 1 employee earlier.

Now, all that brings me back to claimed hrs to be only 2015hrs as opposed to 4175hrs actual worked hrs as my solicitor has made all my full time hr into parttime taking 130hrs into consideration instead of 120hrs per month. Here, I feel very cheated after investing all that harwork, time and money doing everything by the book. He is suggesting me that we put forward the application with the short hrs and get rejected and by that time we would have made up those hrs and reapply with fresh application.

I would like your expert advice or any such experiences, ideas/options that could come up with some contingency to at least mitigate if not resolve the issue at hand.

Thank you

Kind regards
Nanzmaiho

sm12
Diamond Member
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:14 am

Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by sm12 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:02 pm

If the guidance explicitly states 120 hours are acceptable, then I think you should be ok.

Also, if I remember correctly, there was a member who managed to get extension even though one of his full-time employees was working 120 hours per month.

sm12
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:14 am

Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by sm12 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:05 pm

Here is the thread in which BabyLondoner had his/her employees work for 120 hours, although during some months they worked more. HO accepted 120 hours as full time in BabyLondonder's case.
Here is the post
"
i was really worried about the 120hours per month issue based on conflicting information i read here. however, the guidance and application form clearly stated that 120hours per month is considered full time by home office.

still unsure how the total hours is calculated by home office- whether using gross salary or hours reported monthly on the payslip. one thing is clear though 120 HOURS A MONTH IS CLEARLY ACCEPTED."



http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... d#p1455354

seasky
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Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by seasky » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:50 pm

Your solicitor lacks basic logic. He believes the application won't be approved and using it as a placeholder to by time.

So might as well apply with 120 is FT (mention clearly in the cover letter) and if declined you are back to where your solicitor wanted to be anyways, needing a new application.

Meesha
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Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by Meesha » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:56 pm

HI,
While paying 120hrs/month, you ended up having 1440 hours total/year which are less than 1560 as required by HO. If you would have paid every 4 weeks than it should have been fine.
If you have more hours for few months then it will add up to make the total 1560.
But as you have already done this. You better apply as normal and not stating yourself that it was part time.
You should not have intention of getting rejected by urself, however if they refused to accept it then you can go with Plan B as your solicitor said.

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Zimba
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Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by Zimba » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:11 pm

A month is NOT four weeks :!: :!: This assumption is WRONG. Rules DO NOT mention months AT ALL.
HO hourly requirement is based on the fact that a year is 52 weeks and a 30 hour role in 52 week will then be 1560 hours for one role/position. Most people think a month is 4 weeks which is NOT CORRECT. Calculate the hours worked on a weekly basis not monthly, EVEN if you paid your employees monthly salary.

To be accurate:
For a single full time job, you need to have 52 weeks of full time (1 year) employment with at least 30 hours per week.
Use this for weeks calculation : https://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

scholar 1
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Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:42 pm

Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by scholar 1 » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:19 am

My friend, don't let anyone scare you, the new rule accepts 30hours per week or 120hours per month for 12 calendar months. its clearly stated in the latest guidance and the forms. All these other 52 weeks claim or 130hours per month issue was the previous requirement where in the form you were asked to state the total number of hours the employee has worked. Now the form does not request for that. If the requirement has changed then stick with it. If 120 hours per month is not acceptable HO would not put it there. For your information it was not stated in guidance and form up on till last year 2016.

Follow what the latest guidance says. HO cannot disown what is clearly stated in both guidance and form. They cannot go against their own requirement, if they do then you have right to point in out as caseworker error of misinterpreting the rules in AR.

businessmen aces
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:07 pm
India

Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by businessmen aces » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:13 pm

Its always safe to pay your staff 20 to 25% more than minimum wage so that employees are happy and you can retain good staff. also there is no harm in employees clocking 1000 to 1500 hours extra than minimum requirment of home office. To be safe employment hours should be distributed between 3 years and not all hours completed in last year just before extension this will help you in genuine entrepreneur test.

babylondoner
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Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by babylondoner » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:55 pm

sm12 wrote:Here is the thread in which BabyLondoner had his/her employees work for 120 hours, although during some months they worked more. HO accepted 120 hours as full time in BabyLondonder's case.
Here is the post
"
i was really worried about the 120hours per month issue based on conflicting information i read here. however, the guidance and application form clearly stated that 120hours per month is considered full time by home office.

still unsure how the total hours is calculated by home office- whether using gross salary or hours reported monthly on the payslip. one thing is clear though 120 HOURS A MONTH IS CLEARLY ACCEPTED."



http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... d#p1455354
Thanks for stating this.

Nanz. The form and guidance is very clear on this. My employees were on 120hrs a month and my application was approved.

babylondoner
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Posts: 385
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:07 pm

Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by babylondoner » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:58 pm

scholar 1 wrote:My friend, don't let anyone scare you, the new rule accepts 30hours per week or 120hours per month for 12 calendar months. its clearly stated in the latest guidance and the forms. All these other 52 weeks claim or 130hours per month issue was the previous requirement where in the form you were asked to state the total number of hours the employee has worked. Now the form does not request for that. If the requirement has changed then stick with it. If 120 hours per month is not acceptable HO would not put it there. For your information it was not stated in guidance and form up on till last year 2016.

Follow what the latest guidance says. HO cannot disown what is clearly stated in both guidance and form. They cannot go against their own requirement, if they do then you have right to point in out as caseworker error of misinterpreting the rules in AR.
You are spot on.

There's so much scare mongering on this 120 hours issue.

Nanz be very wary of that solicitor. You have over 4125 hours and you have clearly fulfilled the job creation requirement. Mine was less than 4000 hours (120 hours per month) and I got my visa extended succcessfully.

businessmen aces
Member
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:07 pm
India

Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by businessmen aces » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:02 pm

babylondoner wrote:
sm12 wrote:Here is the thread in which BabyLondoner had his/her employees work for 120 hours, although during some months they worked more. HO accepted 120 hours as full time in BabyLondonder's case.
Here is the post
"
i was really worried about the 120hours per month issue based on conflicting information i read here. however, the guidance and application form clearly stated that 120hours per month is considered full time by home office.

still unsure how the total hours is calculated by home office- whether using gross salary or hours reported monthly on the payslip. one thing is clear though 120 HOURS A MONTH IS CLEARLY ACCEPTED."



http://www.immigrationboards.com/uk-tie ... d#p1455354
Thanks for stating this.

Nanz. The form and guidance is very clear on this. My employees were on 120hrs a month and my application was approved.
You are right even in my case in some months i had only 50 to 60 hours and in some months i had 400 hours depending on work and orders total hours were 4980 but in some months only 60 to 70 hours but HO just calculated total number of hours. My visa was also issued before april 2013

businessmen aces
Member
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:07 pm
India

Re: In need of urgent help with employment creation problem

Post by businessmen aces » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:08 pm

And i did not sign any payslip or FPS documents

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