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PBS Dependent Extension or a New Visa

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

libra71pk1
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PBS Dependent visa continuation issue

Post by libra71pk1 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:53 am

Hi

I am on Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa since Sept 2014. I and family (spouse and an under 18 child) came to UK in 2014, my family left UK in Jan 2016. Our first term expired on 8 Jan 2018. I applied extension here within UK and got on 30/05/2018, later I traveled to Pakistan and applied family extension from Pakistan, which they got on 6 July 2018 and then on 24 July 2018 we all traveled to UK and living here since then.

The question is that the Home Office will consider the visa granted on 6 July 2018 for my family as the continuation from 2014 keeping in view the previous rule of absence,or this will be considered from July 2018 as a new visa.

Please confirm

Athar Ali

vinny
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Re: PBS Dependent visa continuation issue

Post by vinny » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:13 am

Subject to 245AAA(a)(ii), etc.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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libra71pk1
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Re: PBS Dependent visa continuation issue

Post by libra71pk1 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:03 pm

Hi

Thank you very much for your reference. However, the point is not clear. My and family visa of the initial term was expired on 8/01/2018 when they were in Pakistan and I was in the UK. I applied extension on 01/08/2018 and got on 30/05/2018 (Leave to Remain valid till 30/05/2020). I then traveled to Pakistan and applied the visa for family, which they got on 06/07/2018 (Leave to Enter valid till 30/05/2020). We all then travel to UK on 24/08/2018.

The question is that, their current visa is an extension to the initial term or it is a new visa because they applied from Pakistan and they were in Pakistan when initial term was expired on 08/01/2018 keeping in the fact into consideration that My current visa is an extension till 30/05/2020).

Please clarify.

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marcnath
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Re: PBS Dependent visa continuation issue

Post by marcnath » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:47 pm

libra71pk1 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:03 pm
Hi

Thank you very much for your reference. However, the point is not clear. My and family visa of the initial term was expired on 8/01/2018 when they were in Pakistan and I was in the UK. I applied extension on 01/08/2018 and got on 30/05/2018 (Leave to Remain valid till 30/05/2020). I then traveled to Pakistan and applied the visa for family, which they got on 06/07/2018 (Leave to Enter valid till 30/05/2020). We all then travel to UK on 24/08/2018.

The question is that, their current visa is an extension to the initial term or it is a new visa because they applied from Pakistan and they were in Pakistan when initial term was expired on 08/01/2018 keeping in the fact into consideration that My current visa is an extension till 30/05/2020).

Please clarify.
Not sure why that matters ?

There is no definition of extension in grant of a visa. You are either granted Entry Clearance (when applying from outside UK) or Leave to Remain (when you apply within UK).
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

libra71pk1
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Re: PBS Dependent visa continuation issue

Post by libra71pk1 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:22 pm

Hi

Thank you very much for the reply and confirming that Leave to Remain and Entry Clearance are the same thing, except the location from where it is granted.

My concern is simple but critical because if it is extension then my family qualify for ILR application as they have completed the 5 years since the first visa of the initial term was granted in Sept 2014, otherwise if is a new visa granted in July 2018 then they will not be qualified for ILR application with me in May 2020, but only another extension.

This is still a question if you could answer please with lots of thanks and appreciations.

Regards

Athar

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CR001
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Re: PBS Dependent visa continuation issue

Post by CR001 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:27 pm

There current visa is a new visa, and their clock reset to zero by applying outside the UK more than 28 days after their last visa expired.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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libra71pk1
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Re: PBS Dependent visa continuation issue

Post by libra71pk1 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:25 pm

Thank you very much for your reply and clarification.

libra71pk1
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Re: PBS Dependent visa continuation issue

Post by libra71pk1 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:50 pm

Thanks for the clear answer. However, is there any chance to put a point for consideration that since their visa was expired on 08/01/2018 while they were in Pakistan and I was in UK and applied for extension then how it was possible for them to apply the extension within 28 days in a situation when even I was without visa and waiting for the extension here in the UK.

As soon as I got the extension in the UK, I traveled to Pakistan and applied their visa from there.

Any comment in this point please.

Thanks and Regards

Athar

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marcnath
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Re: PBS Dependent visa continuation issue

Post by marcnath » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:53 am

I'll disagree with CR001 here.
As long as all the other conditions are met - absence, cohabitation, KoLL, etc, it does not matter whether the latest visa was a entry clearance or remain to leave.
The requirement is only that the latest visa is a PBS partner visa
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

libra71pk1
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Claim of Employment during multiple extensions

Post by libra71pk1 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:26 am

Hi

I am in the first extension of the Tier-1, which will be expired in the end of May 2020. I did have a shortage of my time spent in the UK during initial term but got the extension on the basis of 200k investment and 02 employment. I Then created over 12 employment during my extension perdiod to apply ILR on 03 years basis, i.e. 0ne year from initial term and 02 years of extension.

However, recently, I came to know that my qualifying time period is having a shortage of 3 months til my visa is valid. What should I do? I am afraid about my employment claim.

Can you please confirm that if I apply extension and just claim 02 employment and once I get extension and complete my time shortage to apply ILR then can I claim the remaining 10 employment for ILR on 03 years basis? means the employment of the period of 1st extension can be claimed during the period of 2nd extension or it will be lost

Please confirm

libra71pk1
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PBS Dependent Child Absence & Qualifing Period for ILR

Post by libra71pk1 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:42 am

Hi

I am going to apply for ILR on 03 years route (one year from initial term and 02 years from extension). My extension visa is valid till end of May 2020 and I am planing to apply around 15 May 2020.

I am maintaining 12 full-time employee for more than 12 months to apply on 03 years ILR route.

My question is about my child. She was under 18 when we were granted first visa in Sept 2014 and then extension in May 2018. She just lived in the UK from Nov 2014 to Dec 2015 and then again returned back to UK in July 2018 during 1st extension and celebrated her 18th birthday on 02/10/2019.

My question is about her absence period between Jan 2016-July 2018 when she was out of UK but under 18 but since July 2018 she is in the UK continuously.

Can she apply along with me ILR in May 2020 by taking the advantage of absence rule for Children?

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marcnath
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Re: Claim of Employment during multiple extensions

Post by marcnath » Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:11 pm

libra71pk1 wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:26 am
Hi

I am in the first extension of the Tier-1, which will be expired in the end of May 2020. I did have a shortage of my time spent in the UK during initial term but got the extension on the basis of 200k investment and 02 employment. I Then created over 12 employment during my extension perdiod to apply ILR on 03 years basis, i.e. 0ne year from initial term and 02 years of extension.

However, recently, I came to know that my qualifying time period is having a shortage of 3 months til my visa is valid. What should I do? I am afraid about my employment claim.

Can you please confirm that if I apply extension and just claim 02 employment and once I get extension and complete my time shortage to apply ILR then can I claim the remaining 10 employment for ILR on 03 years basis? means the employment of the period of 1st extension can be claimed during the period of 2nd extension or it will be lost

Please confirm
You have two options.

1) Apply for extension as normal close the last date of you current visa. Submit biometrics close to the last eligible date, etc. If your extension is not granted before you qualify for the three year period, you can vary your extension application to the 3 year ILR application.
2) If your extension is approved, you can apply for ILR as soon as you qualify for three year AS LONG as you have the 10 jobs in the 12 months before your application date. If you have maintained the 12 jobs throughout, you would obviously qualify.
libra71pk1 wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:42 am
Hi

I am going to apply for ILR on 03 years route (one year from initial term and 02 years from extension). My extension visa is valid till end of May 2020 and I am planing to apply around 15 May 2020.

I am maintaining 12 full-time employee for more than 12 months to apply on 03 years ILR route.

My question is about my child. She was under 18 when we were granted first visa in Sept 2014 and then extension in May 2018. She just lived in the UK from Nov 2014 to Dec 2015 and then again returned back to UK in July 2018 during 1st extension and celebrated her 18th birthday on 02/10/2019.

My question is about her absence period between Jan 2016-July 2018 when she was out of UK but under 18 but since July 2018 she is in the UK continuously.

Can she apply along with me ILR in May 2020 by taking the advantage of absence rule for Children?
The absence is immaterial for children.

However, children are only eligible for ILR when both parents get their ILR, so it depends on whether your partner qualifies for ILR at the same time.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

libra71pk1
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Re: Claim of Employment during multiple extensions

Post by libra71pk1 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:24 am

Many thanks for your reply. Please correct my understanding from your advice.

I understand that 10-12 jobs which were created in 1st extension if remain continue while waiting period for 2nd extension to the start and continuation of 2nd extension till the reach of the qualifying period to apply ILR will remain intact to claim, provided they are maintained for at least 12 months before ILR application.

In other words it is not must to create a new set of 10 jobs for 12 months separately after entering into the 2nd extension to qualify for 3 years ILR rout and the existing set of jobs will be fine to claim if they are being continued for more than 12 months till ILR application.

Please just answer YES or if it is NO then please give some more advice.

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marcnath
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Re: Claim of Employment during multiple extensions

Post by marcnath » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:34 am

libra71pk1 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:24 am
Many thanks for your reply. Please correct my understanding from your advice.

I understand that 10-12 jobs which were created in 1st extension if remain continue while waiting period for 2nd extension to the start and continuation of 2nd extension till the reach of the qualifying period to apply ILR will remain intact to claim, provided they are maintained for at least 12 months before ILR application.

In other words it is not must to create a new set of 10 jobs for 12 months separately after entering into the 2nd extension to qualify for 3 years ILR rout and the existing set of jobs will be fine to claim if they are being continued for more than 12 months till ILR application.

Please just answer YES or if it is NO then please give some more advice.
YES
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

libra71pk1
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Re: Claim of Employment during multiple extensions

Post by libra71pk1 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:56 pm

Thank you very much. It is really very helpful to make my case.

Best Regards

Athar Ali

libra71pk1
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PBS Dependent Extension or a New Visa

Post by libra71pk1 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:29 am

Hi

I and my dependent spouse and a child got initial visa on 06/09/2014 till 08/01/2018.

My family stayed for more than a year but left back on 12/12/2015 and did not return until their visa was expired on 08/01/2018 and remained in Pakistan. However, as per rules, there was no condition of absence on PBS dependents till 11/01/2018.

I applied extension on 02/08/2018 in the UK and got on 30/05/2018 (Leave to Remain valid till 30/05/2020). I then traveled to Pakistan and applied the visa for family, which they got on 06/07/2018 (Leave to Enter valid till 30/05/2020). We all then travel to UK on 24/08/2018 and since then we are in the UK permanently.

The question is that, their visa which was granted on 06/07/2018 is an extension to the initial term or it is a new visa because they applied from Pakistan and they were in Pakistan when initial term was expired on 08/01/2018.

Please keep the fact into consideration that My current visa is an extension till 30/05/2020) and they are my dependent as PBS dependents.

My understanding from the rules of 11/01/2018 is that since they are my dependents then they also got extension (not a new visa) on 06/07/2018 and from this date onward they are subject to the 180 days absent rule and no impact on their absence before this date.

Is my understating correct?

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marcnath
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Re: PBS Dependent Extension or a New Visa

Post by marcnath » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:50 pm

libra71pk1 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:29 am
Hi

I and my dependent spouse and a child got initial visa on 06/09/2014 till 08/01/2018.

My family stayed for more than a year but left back on 12/12/2015 and did not return until their visa was expired on 08/01/2018 and remained in Pakistan. However, as per rules, there was no condition of absence on PBS dependents till 11/01/2018.

I applied extension on 02/08/2018 in the UK and got on 30/05/2018 (Leave to Remain valid till 30/05/2020). I then traveled to Pakistan and applied the visa for family, which they got on 06/07/2018 (Leave to Enter valid till 30/05/2020). We all then travel to UK on 24/08/2018 and since then we are in the UK permanently.

The question is that, their visa which was granted on 06/07/2018 is an extension to the initial term or it is a new visa because they applied from Pakistan and they were in Pakistan when initial term was expired on 08/01/2018.

Please keep the fact into consideration that My current visa is an extension till 30/05/2020) and they are my dependent as PBS dependents.

My understanding from the rules of 11/01/2018 is that since they are my dependents then they also got extension (not a new visa) on 06/07/2018 and from this date onward they are subject to the 180 days absent rule and no impact on their absence before this date.

Is my understating correct?
It does not matter whether it is considered an extension or new visa.

I can't see how you would meet the requirements anyway.

Section 319E(d) states:

(d) The applicant and the Relevant Points Based System Migrant or Appendix W Worker must have been living together in the UK........

Clearly you and your dependant do not meet the highlighted condition.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

libra71pk1
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Re: PBS Dependent Extension or a New Visa

Post by libra71pk1 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:34 pm

Hi

I think there was something unclear to you what I wrote.

I and my dependents are living together since they got Leave to Enter in July 2018 from Pakistan following to my extension (Leave to Remain) granted in May 2018.

Earlier to that we also lived together in 2014 & 2015 during initial term.

Please review my query with the above clarification and PBS dependent absence policy which was changed on 11/01/2018 in which PBS dependents were free of any absence count, and if they got extension after this date then their absence count will start from the date of their new Entry Clearance is granted.

Please consider the above facts to define that their Leave to Enter granted in July 2018 from Pakistan is a new visa or an extension granted subsequent to my extension in May 2018 in the UK.

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marcnath
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Re: PBS Dependent Extension or a New Visa

Post by marcnath » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:01 pm

libra71pk1 wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:34 pm
Hi

I think there was something unclear to you what I wrote.

I and my dependents are living together since they got Leave to Enter in July 2018 from Pakistan following to my extension (Leave to Remain) granted in May 2018.

Earlier to that we also lived together in 2014 & 2015 during initial term.

Please review my query with the above clarification and PBS dependent absence policy which was changed on 11/01/2018 in which PBS dependents were free of any absence count, and if they got extension after this date then their absence count will start from the date of their new Entry Clearance is granted.

Please consider the above facts to define that their Leave to Enter granted in July 2018 from Pakistan is a new visa or an extension granted subsequent to my extension in May 2018 in the UK.
The immigration rule requires both of you to have been living together IN THE UK.

Your dependant was away from 12/12/2015 and 24/08/2018, almost three years. In my opinion, it is very difficult to argue that this was living together in the UK. There clearly is no major connection to the UK during this period, so it is more likely to be interpreted as your dependent having moved back.

Absence will generally refer to short trips away. You are free to try and use the argument that the almost three years away should be considered absence, but I would not be surprised if HO would consider that as not living together in the UK.

This is my personal opinion and you may want to consult a solicitor on how the rule would be interpreted and whether there have been cases where the interpretation has been made in court.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

libra71pk1
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Re: PBS Dependent Extension or a New Visa

Post by libra71pk1 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:48 pm

Hi

You have highlighted a new important issue, but it is very much irrelevant in our case. Once she got the visa in July 2018 based upon my extension granted in May 2018 means it was very much established that HO had considered our relationship as partner. I even did not submit the marriage certificate or any such documents with her application again in July 2018. HO probably accessed all of our previous documents submitted during our initial application in 2014 and approved her visa (entry clearance) in July 2018 with same expiry date of mine i.e. 30/05/2020 (same for me, my wife and child).

My question is just only to know that the visa what she was granted in July 2018 a new visa or extension, it is important just to calculate her qualifying period for ILR from Sept 2014 or July 2018 under the PBS dependent absence rules and changes made on 11/01/2018.

Is there any reference or wording or code on her July 2018 visa that can indicate a new or extended visa.

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