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T1 Extension refused, employees hours, URGENT HELP PLEASE

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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sm12
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by sm12 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:17 pm

And you can mention that the requirements of students keep changing pretty quickly as the syllabus is updated/or rules and regulations within business and accounting are always evolving, so you need keep yourself and your tutors up to date. So it's the nature of the business and you need to train your tutors from time to time.

Faheemryk
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by Faheemryk » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:30 pm

sm12 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:17 pm
And you can mention that the requirements of students keep changing pretty quickly as the syllabus is updated/or rules and regulations within business and accounting are always evolving, so you need keep yourself and your tutors up to date. So it's the nature of the business and you need to train your tutors from time to time.
Thats one of the very valid points.

sm12
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by sm12 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:13 am

Also, you could briefly describe what employee one does for 20 hours a week. Say that you provided samples and her typical work week consists of the following tasks.

amirakbar
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by amirakbar » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:42 am

Could you please share your timeline. I am also running a private tuition centre. In the interview i was not being asked for lesson plan or teaching material. I applied in March 2017 still waiting for decision.

Faheemryk
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:50 pm

amirakbar wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:42 am
Could you please share your timeline. I am also running a private tuition centre. In the interview i was not being asked for lesson plan or teaching material. I applied in March 2017 still waiting for decision.
applied 26 June 2017
Receievd complex letter in July 2017
Received another complex letter in February 201
Interviewed 13 April 2018
Refusal 9-7-2018


I believe you will receive your decision soon, and if your caseworker is not a terrible person like mine.... decision will be in your favour

Faheemryk
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:53 pm

amirakbar wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:42 am
Could you please share your timeline. I am also running a private tuition centre. In the interview i was not being asked for lesson plan or teaching material. I applied in March 2017 still waiting for decision.
you can PM me, if you need any guidance. I am happy to help.

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CR001
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by CR001 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:59 pm

Faheemryk wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:53 pm
amirakbar wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:42 am
Could you please share your timeline. I am also running a private tuition centre. In the interview i was not being asked for lesson plan or teaching material. I applied in March 2017 still waiting for decision.
you can PM me, if you need any guidance. I am happy to help.
The user does not have access to the privilege of PM. If you are not a qualified and registered immigration advisor, you should not be advising people privately in your own capacity.

Members are again reminded to post in public so that all may benefit and any incorrect or dubious advise can be corrected. Any abuse of the PM function will result in a member(s) having the privilege withdrawn permanently.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

Faheemryk
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Re: Urgent refusal

Post by Faheemryk » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:04 pm

marcnath wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:39 pm
1bradymate wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:08 pm
Hi
Macgrath sad day for us today our AR got rejected and gave us silly reason not even replied properly now situation is my parter is going for long residency category plus JR and I am planning to apply for JR only I do not want to apply for fresh application as its refused on genuineness so can not make any difference my question is if during JR process my partner get visa what will happen to me
Sorry to hear that. Did both of you get the refusal ?

It is always better to make a fresh application along with JR or wait for the result of the fresh application and then go for JR. But it is something you should decide in discussion with a qualified immigration lawyer.

You can address some of the initial points in a fresh application in the accounts. You can also make sure you know the details correctly to avoid the discrepancy in answers between you and your partner.
Hi Marcnoth

Apologies for mentioning like this, but I got refusal on genuineness grounds last week, I posted about it. I had been waiting for your valuable advice but you didnt comment on my post. Once again apologies for mentioning like this, but can you please read my post and give me some of your valuable advice ?

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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by marcnath » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm

Yes, I did see this post and replies from sm12.

You had covered the AR arguments pretty well yourself, so there was not much I could add to it.

It appears that, in your case, the job creation has been specifically selected as non genuine. Not your overall business.

So, anything you can add to support that the jobs are genuine should be highlighted. For example, if they were paid well above minimum wage or they have been working well over the minimum of 104 weeks required and so on. If so, you can argue that the overall history should have been concerned - not some specific incidents.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Faheemryk
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by Faheemryk » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:53 pm

marcnath wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm
Yes, I did see this post and replies from sm12.

You had covered the AR arguments pretty well yourself, so there was not much I could add to it.

It appears that, in your case, the job creation has been specifically selected as non genuine. Not your overall business.

So, anything you can add to support that the jobs are genuine should be highlighted. For example, if they were paid well above minimum wage or they have been working well over the minimum of 104 weeks required and so on. If so, you can argue that the overall history should have been concerned - not some specific incidents.
Thank you so much Marcnoth. The thing is ... Genuineness ... is overall broader picture of the business. I dont find find it logical to be refuse on that basis, on the basis of balance of probabilities, its is clear that I am running a genuine business. there are two things, first ... meeting all 95 points, second ... genuineness test ... if we dont score 95 points then our visa is to be refused straight away. Genuineness ... is decided on balance of probabilities. balance of probabilities clearly shows that my business is genuine.

in that case, I find it clearly unjustifiable to be refused. Am I right ?

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marcnath
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by marcnath » Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:32 am

Faheemryk wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:53 pm
marcnath wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm
Yes, I did see this post and replies from sm12.

You had covered the AR arguments pretty well yourself, so there was not much I could add to it.

It appears that, in your case, the job creation has been specifically selected as non genuine. Not your overall business.

So, anything you can add to support that the jobs are genuine should be highlighted. For example, if they were paid well above minimum wage or they have been working well over the minimum of 104 weeks required and so on. If so, you can argue that the overall history should have been concerned - not some specific incidents.
Thank you so much Marcnoth. The thing is ... Genuineness ... is overall broader picture of the business. I dont find find it logical to be refuse on that basis, on the basis of balance of probabilities, its is clear that I am running a genuine business. there are two things, first ... meeting all 95 points, second ... genuineness test ... if we dont score 95 points then our visa is to be refused straight away. Genuineness ... is decided on balance of probabilities. balance of probabilities clearly shows that my business is genuine.

in that case, I find it clearly unjustifiable to be refused. Am I right ?
No, genuineness can be for each specific attribute.

It appears you have not been given points for your job creation based on the genuineness of that attribute. You should have been given points for the rest. It must be clear in the letters you have received.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Faheemryk
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Posts: 166
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:16 pm

marcnath wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:32 am
Faheemryk wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:53 pm
marcnath wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm
Yes, I did see this post and replies from sm12.

You had covered the AR arguments pretty well yourself, so there was not much I could add to it.

It appears that, in your case, the job creation has been specifically selected as non genuine. Not your overall business.

So, anything you can add to support that the jobs are genuine should be highlighted. For example, if they were paid well above minimum wage or they have been working well over the minimum of 104 weeks required and so on. If so, you can argue that the overall history should have been concerned - not some specific incidents.
Thank you so much Marcnoth. The thing is ... Genuineness ... is overall broader picture of the business. I dont find find it logical to be refuse on that basis, on the basis of balance of probabilities, its is clear that I am running a genuine business. there are two things, first ... meeting all 95 points, second ... genuineness test ... if we dont score 95 points then our visa is to be refused straight away. Genuineness ... is decided on balance of probabilities. balance of probabilities clearly shows that my business is genuine.

in that case, I find it clearly unjustifiable to be refused. Am I right ?
No, genuineness can be for each specific attribute.

It appears you have not been given points for your job creation based on the genuineness of that attribute. You should have been given points for the rest. It must be clear in the letters you have received.
I’m not given points for actively running a business and for job creation.

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marcnath
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by marcnath » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:39 pm

Faheemryk wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:16 pm
marcnath wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:32 am
Faheemryk wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:53 pm
marcnath wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:28 pm
Yes, I did see this post and replies from sm12.

You had covered the AR arguments pretty well yourself, so there was not much I could add to it.

It appears that, in your case, the job creation has been specifically selected as non genuine. Not your overall business.

So, anything you can add to support that the jobs are genuine should be highlighted. For example, if they were paid well above minimum wage or they have been working well over the minimum of 104 weeks required and so on. If so, you can argue that the overall history should have been concerned - not some specific incidents.
Thank you so much Marcnoth. The thing is ... Genuineness ... is overall broader picture of the business. I dont find find it logical to be refuse on that basis, on the basis of balance of probabilities, its is clear that I am running a genuine business. there are two things, first ... meeting all 95 points, second ... genuineness test ... if we dont score 95 points then our visa is to be refused straight away. Genuineness ... is decided on balance of probabilities. balance of probabilities clearly shows that my business is genuine.

in that case, I find it clearly unjustifiable to be refused. Am I right ?
No, genuineness can be for each specific attribute.

It appears you have not been given points for your job creation based on the genuineness of that attribute. You should have been given points for the rest. It must be clear in the letters you have received.
I’m not given points for actively running a business and for job creation.
I agree this is unfair.

It is a points based system and if you have the evidence required, then they should give you points.

If you have submitted the evidence and they don't think it is genuine, HO should be obliged to determine that it is fraudulent.

I am not sure if anyone has challenged this in court yet, but it would be interesting to see what the court has to say about it.

Of course, going for a JR is a complex and costly affair.

Unfortunately, fairness is not an argument acceptable in an AR.

You have to argue based on the fact that the CW has made a mistake.

So, highlighting why the job and the business is still genuine by arguing that the CW should have looked at a more holistic view is possibly the best approach. I already covered what could be argued for genuine job creation. Similarly for the still active in business - long term lease contracts, taxes paid, etc may help.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Faheemryk
Member
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:34 pm
Pakistan

Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:14 pm

marcnath wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:39 pm
Faheemryk wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:16 pm
marcnath wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:32 am
Faheemryk wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:53 pm


Thank you so much Marcnoth. The thing is ... Genuineness ... is overall broader picture of the business. I dont find find it logical to be refuse on that basis, on the basis of balance of probabilities, its is clear that I am running a genuine business. there are two things, first ... meeting all 95 points, second ... genuineness test ... if we dont score 95 points then our visa is to be refused straight away. Genuineness ... is decided on balance of probabilities. balance of probabilities clearly shows that my business is genuine.

in that case, I find it clearly unjustifiable to be refused. Am I right ?
No, genuineness can be for each specific attribute.

It appears you have not been given points for your job creation based on the genuineness of that attribute. You should have been given points for the rest. It must be clear in the letters you have received.
I’m not given points for actively running a business and for job creation.
I agree this is unfair.

It is a points based system and if you have the evidence required, then they should give you points.

If you have submitted the evidence and they don't think it is genuine, HO should be obliged to determine that it is fraudulent.

I am not sure if anyone has challenged this in court yet, but it would be interesting to see what the court has to say about it.

Of course, going for a JR is a complex and costly affair.

Unfortunately, fairness is not an argument acceptable in an AR.

You have to argue based on the fact that the CW has made a mistake.

So, highlighting why the job and the business is still genuine by arguing that the CW should have looked at a more holistic view is possibly the best approach. I already covered what could be argued for genuine job creation. Similarly for the still active in business - long term lease contracts, taxes paid, etc may help.
Thank you Marcnath

One final question, do you think our responses to three refusal points are strong enough to over turn refusal ?

In my opinion, these responses are reasonably strong, however, we aren’t sure how admin review team will look at these. So my chances are fifty fifty .

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marcnath
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by marcnath » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:46 pm

Faheemryk wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:14 pm


Thank you Marcnath

One final question, do you think our responses to three refusal points are strong enough to over turn refusal ?

In my opinion, these responses are reasonably strong, however, we aren’t sure how admin review team will look at these. So my chances are fifty fifty .
Yes, they do seem fair arguments but impossible to comment without knowing the full details of your business and the employees.

You need the point by point argument, but as I have said, add in additional reasons why the whole process or method was wrong.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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