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T1 Extension refused, employees hours, URGENT HELP PLEASE

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system. This route is now closed to new applicants.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

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Capri
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by Capri » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:54 pm

[quote=Faheemryk post_id=1620401 time=1523440371 user_id=107163]
Hello everyone,
I have received a call from home office that the compliance officers will interview me at my home, where I have my business address on 13 April. I am on tier 1 entrepreneur 50K route.
I have a question about investment. During initial application, we were two members of entrepreneur team. We showed third party funding who was our cousin in Pakistan. We showed bank letter that money is disposable in the UK and our cousin’s undertaking that he will provide us that money to do our business in the UK. Our initial visa application was refused in July 2013, we went in appeal and win. In the meanwhile, our cousin transferred (£10,000 October 2013) via Dubai into our business bank account. This money was later repaid to him once business started to generate profit through my relatives in Pakistan. However, I didn’t send money to him directly.
Later by the end of 2015, my entrepreneur team member told me that she s going to apply ILR on 10 years’ basis. She got her ILR in April 2016.
I made three transfers from my personal bank account to business bank account for investment purpose, first was £30,000 on 21 December 2015, second £10,000 on 14 March 2016 and third £10,000 in mid of April 2016. Another £2000 in June 2016. I applied for extension in January 2017.
Yesterday I went to see my solicitor, she said, if question is asked, where they money came from, how why is it different source then my initial application, then I must say that one director was leaving directorship of business, therefore, I was the only director, and I was responsible for investment in the company. That’s why I invested £52,000 of my own money. It’s my money. I saved it over the period of time. It was held in a savings account. Later when business needed, then I transferred that money to business account from my personal account.
My question is, this explanation for investment be ok? would there be any problem if we showed our cousins funds during initial application but later, I invested my own funds ?
Hi Faheemryk,
It is kindly advised that be prepare with confidence, you have to give answers what you can prove if they ask to prove, as I answered in my interview that I had money from my country,and save money during my PSW, also when you transfer funds from your personal account to business account you have to prepare your answer from where you have this money (it must not be any kind of loan in personal account).
“If there is a good will, there is great way.” :D

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Capri
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by Capri » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:03 pm

Faheemryk wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:52 am
Hello everyone,
I have received a call from home office that the compliance officers will interview me at my home, where I have my business address on 13 April. I am on tier 1 entrepreneur 50K route.
I have a question about investment. During initial application, we were two members of entrepreneur team. We showed third party funding who was our cousin in Pakistan. We showed bank letter that money is disposable in the UK and our cousin’s undertaking that he will provide us that money to do our business in the UK. Our initial visa application was refused in July 2013, we went in appeal and win. In the meanwhile, our cousin transferred (£10,000 October 2013) via Dubai into our business bank account. This money was later repaid to him once business started to generate profit through my relatives in Pakistan. However, I didn’t send money to him directly.
Later by the end of 2015, my entrepreneur team member told me that she s going to apply ILR on 10 years’ basis. She got her ILR in April 2016.
I made three transfers from my personal bank account to business bank account for investment purpose, first was £30,000 on 21 December 2015, second £10,000 on 14 March 2016 and third £10,000 in mid of April 2016. Another £2000 in June 2016. I applied for extension in January 2017.
Yesterday I went to see my solicitor, she said, if question is asked, where they money came from, how why is it different source then my initial application, then I must say that one director was leaving directorship of business, therefore, I was the only director, and I was responsible for investment in the company. That’s why I invested £52,000 of my own money. It’s my money. I saved it over the period of time. It was held in a savings account. Later when business needed, then I transferred that money to business account from my personal account.
My question is, this explanation for investment be ok? would there be any problem if we showed our cousins funds during initial application but later, I invested my own funds ?
I do not think they have any concern of initial application, on basis of my interview they did not ask any question regarding initial application.
“If there is a good will, there is great way.” :D

natsha
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by natsha » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:27 am

Hi,

if you bring all money from Pakistan through DUBAI So should have TT paperwork of exchanges money transfer just show them that's valid and strong evidence of money transfer from Pakistan to Uk personal.

Thanks

mig2015
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by mig2015 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:05 pm

I agree with ntasha and Marcnath. keeping every receipt or document showing the actual transactions from home country, better if any statement to show the possession of funds prior to transfer to cover your back if they ask questions with regards to "remained available until were invested"

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by kaps84 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:49 pm

All the best for your interview tomorrow :).
Don't forget to ask the interview notes from the interviewer.
and do kindly update us all about the questions asked ?
-- Kaps84

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Compliance officer asking for tenancy agreement, home used an business address

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:32 am

I applied for my T1 Entrepreneur visa extension on 26th of June 2017. On 13th April 2018, I had an interview at my home by UKVI compliance officers (I have my home address as my business address). part of our living room is used as office. However, clients never visit our place. We meet them at their places or at public libraries. We have three work tables in our living room, which are occasionally used by employees. It’s a private tuition business therefore employees must tutor students at public libraries. Office is occasionally used only. Home address is used for business mails and posts only.
My interview on 13th April went well. However, I just received an email from compliance officer that she wants me to send her tenancy agreement of property. I just checked tenancy agreement and I realised that there are two clauses that forbid us from registering a company or running a business from home. At this moment, it’s very difficult for me to take land lady’s permission. It may take time.
Now the overall situation is, I did well in interview. I am running a genuine business. I think everything else goes in my favour except this tenancy agreement. Please guide me what shall I do.

mig2015
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by mig2015 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:45 am

better if you had at least an email confirming their permission when started to use the property as office. Now If I were you I would took that approval (as a letter) without hesitation and quite straight away, and wording in a way that it's not saying they have approved it just now, if you know what I mean

that would be me in that situation, I'm quite sure Marcnath, Zimbaa or other respected Gurus have more precise views

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by zimba » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:49 am

Since the passing of the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Act 2015 and under (section 35), a landlord can’t withhold permission without a ‘reasonable’ justification. If you do not provide services from home and simply use it for post, the landlord has no reasonable justification to withhold permission. I suggest you seek the approval of landlord and send the letter with the agreement.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by CR001 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:56 am

zimba88 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:49 am
Since the passing of the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Act 2015 and under (section 35), a landlord can’t withhold permission without a ‘reasonable’ justification. If you do not provide services from home and simply use it for post, the landlord has no reasonable justification to withhold permission. I suggest you seek the approval of landlord and send the letter with the agreement.
Running a business from a tenanted property without permission can have implications for a landlord, ie their insurance which would be specifically for residential only and their mortgage, especially if landlord had to get permission from mortgage company to let the property which would have conditions attached.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by zimba » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:59 am

Sure but such claims are not reasonable if the person is NOT running the business from there and using the address only for post. There is clear difference between two cases
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by infinitesmile » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:09 pm

Hi faheemryk,

Did they ask you for the source of money being different to the one showed at the time of initial application.

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by mig2015 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:10 pm

Hello Zimbaa it looks the OP has had employees at the address so obviously this is more than purpose of postal address?

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:13 pm

mig2015 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:10 pm
Hello Zimbaa it looks the OP has had employees at the address so obviously this is more than purpose of postal address?
Employees work as private tutor. Work in public libraries. Occasionally clients meet at business address but they don’t work from office.

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:14 pm

zimba88 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:49 am
Since the passing of the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Act 2015 and under (section 35), a landlord can’t withhold permission without a ‘reasonable’ justification. If you do not provide services from home and simply use it for post, the landlord has no reasonable justification to withhold permission. I suggest you seek the approval of landlord and send the letter with the agreement.
Thank you so much. That’s bit sigh of relief

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by mig2015 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:19 pm

Faheemryk wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:13 pm
mig2015 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:10 pm
Hello Zimbaa it looks the OP has had employees at the address so obviously this is more than purpose of postal address?
Employees work as private tutor. Work in public libraries. Occasionally clients meet at business address but they don’t work from office.
Hi

Exactly which is a bit more than using the address to receive posts, and CO must have noticed this during the interview, this is the reason I think a quick approval from the landlord could make airtight

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by zimba » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:39 pm

The rule of thumb is avoid running a business from home as this would put you at odds with the landlord, the council, immigration and also exposes your home address on public record. Instead use one of the virtual offices service providers most of which are quite cheap these days
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by sm12 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:43 pm

zimba88 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:39 pm
The rule of thumb is avoid running a business from home as this would put you at odds with the landlord, the council, immigration and also exposes your home address on public record. Instead use one of the virtual offices service providers most of which are quite cheap these days
Hi Zimba

You are right that it makes sense to use a virtual address, but it seems that the HO is using it as a reason to reject applicants, i.e. perhaps they view having a virtual address as not being a genuine entrepreneur.

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by zimba » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:52 pm

Many have got extensions with virtual offices
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:07 pm

zimba88 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:39 pm
The rule of thumb is avoid running a business from home as this would put you at odds with the landlord, the council, immigration and also exposes your home address on public record. Instead use one of the virtual offices service providers most of which are quite cheap these days
you are absolutely right. I didnt know that having home address as business address is such a pain. I am seriously considering to move to virtual office or take a room in some office building.

I have just realised that was last year's contract where it was explicitly mentioned that business cannot be run from home. This year, we signed only one page contract, as far I can remember. I dont have its scanned copy with me but I'll check record once I am home.

I will send UKVI scanned copy of this year's contract. After that, I want to move to virtual office.

I am just wondering if on the basis of this one point, in worst case scenerio, would they have a chance to reject my extension ? on the other hand, I am running a genuine business, and I did well in interview to prove that.

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by marcnath » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:28 pm

Faheemryk wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:07 pm
zimba88 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:39 pm
The rule of thumb is avoid running a business from home as this would put you at odds with the landlord, the council, immigration and also exposes your home address on public record. Instead use one of the virtual offices service providers most of which are quite cheap these days
you are absolutely right. I didnt know that having home address as business address is such a pain. I am seriously considering to move to virtual office or take a room in some office building.

I have just realised that was last year's contract where it was explicitly mentioned that business cannot be run from home. This year, we signed only one page contract, as far I can remember. I dont have its scanned copy with me but I'll check record once I am home.

I will send UKVI scanned copy of this year's contract. After that, I want to move to virtual office.

I am just wondering if on the basis of this one point, in worst case scenerio, would they have a chance to reject my extension ? on the other hand, I am running a genuine business, and I did well in interview to prove that.
The one page contract would just have been something that says that the contract is extended on the same terms as the expired one.So that is unlikely to help.
As CR001 mentioned, the major problem generally is the landlord's mortgage and insurance, which would have mandated permission before the premises are used for business purposes.
Having said that, this is not against any law (as far as I know), there would be no impact to the landlord if you stop using it as a business premises immediately and most importantly has nothing to do with the genuineness of the business.
So, one option is to be just upfront about it. Let the CO know that you overlooked that in the tenancy agreement, you have taken corrective action now (make a VO agreement and send that across) mentioning clearly that this should have no impact on the genuineness of the business and has not broken any UK laws.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by moongesture » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:29 pm

Hi, In my opinion, this will not be a problem on its own. I would advise you to revise the Q&A session and look at your answers on whole and gather the actual picture.

As mentioned above a singular point will/may not be the cause of refusal ( as far as I have seen the outcomes) it is always the comprehensive analysis of a case which creates the issue.

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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:44 pm

marcnath wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:28 pm
Faheemryk wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:07 pm
zimba88 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:39 pm
The rule of thumb is avoid running a business from home as this would put you at odds with the landlord, the council, immigration and also exposes your home address on public record. Instead use one of the virtual offices service providers most of which are quite cheap these days
you are absolutely right. I didnt know that having home address as business address is such a pain. I am seriously considering to move to virtual office or take a room in some office building.

I have just realised that was last year's contract where it was explicitly mentioned that business cannot be run from home. This year, we signed only one page contract, as far I can remember. I dont have its scanned copy with me but I'll check record once I am home.

I will send UKVI scanned copy of this year's contract. After that, I want to move to virtual office.

I am just wondering if on the basis of this one point, in worst case scenerio, would they have a chance to reject my extension ? on the other hand, I am running a genuine business, and I did well in interview to prove that.
The one page contract would just have been something that says that the contract is extended on the same terms as the expired one.So that is unlikely to help.
As CR001 mentioned, the major problem generally is the landlord's mortgage and insurance, which would have mandated permission before the premises are used for business purposes.
Having said that, this is not against any law (as far as I know), there would be no impact to the landlord if you stop using it as a business premises immediately and most importantly has nothing to do with the genuineness of the business.
So, one option is to be just upfront about it. Let the CO know that you overlooked that in the tenancy agreement, you have taken corrective action now (make a VO agreement and send that across) mentioning clearly that this should have no impact on the genuineness of the business and has not broken any UK laws.
Thank you so much Marcnath. Really appreciated

Faheemryk
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Re: Interview call and Investment question

Post by Faheemryk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:10 pm

moongesture wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:29 pm
Hi, In my opinion, this will not be a problem on its own. I would advise you to revise the Q&A session and look at your answers on whole and gather the actual picture.

As mentioned above a singular point will/may not be the cause of refusal ( as far as I have seen the outcomes) it is always the comprehensive analysis of a case which creates the issue.
You are absolutely right. Single point does not cause refusal. However, there had been recent cases on the forum that, UKVI refused by combining such five six points, using balance of probabilities, made refusals on grounds of genuiness. these refusals were based on compliance officers observations on the day of interview, rather than looking the whole picture of three years of business, they just refuse by having such five six points.

Nonetheless, I’m quite hopeful about my application. I’m running a genuine business and, in my opinion, I demonstrated that during my interview

Faheemryk
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Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by Faheemryk » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:35 pm

My visa extension application has been refused based on genuineness. Following are three refusal points. My business provides accounting, finance and tax tuition to university students and professional chartered accountancy students. Business provides face to face private tuition to students. Each job/student is different from others. We also provide online lessons using Skype and MS Office.

Here’s what refusal letter states:

Your application has been refused for the following reasons under PARA 245 DD(I) (iv) (v)

The Compliance Officers asked you to show them your lessons plans you were unable to do so. You were also unable to show them evidence of any tutoring you had provided to any of your students slnce your buslness began.We have concerns as to whether you are operating a private tuition business especially as you were unable to show the Compliance Officers any evidence of teaching students, and you were unable to show them any teaching materials, any evidence of marking students work, any work students had done for you or any lessons plans.
Given all of the above we do not consider your business activity is credible.
Compliance officer asked me for lesson plan, I provided her a sample lesson plan for one student. I also showed and printed rough schedule on an excel sheet, I gave it to compliance officer during the interview. That excel sheet shows date, lessons, names of students and times when lessons were scheduled.
Compliance officer didn’t ask me specifically for work done for students. If she would have asked, I have loads of work evidence that I did for students. Each student/job is separate from each other. Most students buy only 2,4,6 hours lesson. Few buy more than 10 hours lesson. Lessons are focused on individual learning needs of students, and these things were explained to compliance officer during interview.


(v) the credibility of the job creation for which you are claiming points
You stated you also employ Employee 1 for 20 hours a week, although she was not present during compliance visit. However we have concerns about your claim because when Compliance Officers asked to see evidence of work she had undertaken you could only show reports stated to have been created by Employee 1 and the Compliance Officers observed that these reports did not demonstrate 20 hour a week of work
I provided them with SAMPLES of work done by employee 1. I told clearly to compliance officer that these are samples of work done by employee 1. I gave her print out as evidence of maintaining our business online advertisements. I also emailed them samples of sales revenue reports produced by employee 1. I was supposed to send samples, and I sent samples, I was not supposed to send all the work produced by employee 1.
During the visit Compliance Officers asked you to provide employee records and documentation for all of your employees, both current and previously employed. However you were unable to show Compliance Officers employees sick records and annual leave records because you do not keep them and you could not show Compliance Officers proper employee attendance records. We have concerns as to why you could not provide this information as consider it a reasonable expectation that employers would be able to show these type of employee records to our during their announced visit.

Yes, I didn’t had employees sick and annual leaves records. However, I showed compliance officer proofs of email communication where employee 1 asked approval for holidays, not sure if compliance officer noted that down properly in interview or not.
During the compliance visit you stated to Compliance Officers that you continue to employ Employee 2 , although she was not present during the compliance visit. You stated that Employee 2 worked for you for 30 hours a week as a tutor but at the present time she was only working about 20 hours a week. You stated she work as a tutor but she currently only had one student called George. However, when Compliance Officer asked you to show them evidence of Employee 2 's tutoring work including any lessons plans she had made for her current student or her previous students you were unable to do so.
Employee 2 came back from abroad just hours before my interview. I gave print out of her ticket to compliance officer. Yes, she had one permanent student George, but I informed compliance officer that we keep receiving student’s enquiries, students take 1,2 lessons, and if their topics are covered, they are gone.
You confirmed that Employee 2 had been a co- director of your company since 2012 but she did not have much effect on the business (q 10) and she resigned her directorship on 17 April 2016. You then state you re-employed her the next day to work for you in an admin role and as a tutor but you also stated to the Compliance Officers that you were still having to train her
She didn’t had much effect on the business. This is a self-drawn conclusion by compliance officer. I told her that I lead business, employee 1 has a supporting role. She tutors upto 1st year students because she s an MBA, not a qualified accountant. I am ACCA affiliate. I tutor at 2nd year, 3rd year , postgraduate, ACA,ACCA,CIMA levels. I am training her for university 2nd and 3rd year tutoring. The conclusion drawn by compliance officer was totally misleading.
We have concerns as to why you would re-employ Employee 2 in an admin role and as a tutor the day after she resigned her directorship when you think she had not had much impact on the business. We have concerns as to why you would have employed Employee 2 as a tutor when you informed Compliance Officers that (two years after she resigned her directorship) you were itill having to train her. We also have concerns as to why your students would want to be tutored by Employee 2 and pay your students tuition fees of {35 to L70 per hour, when she still requires training.
She had not much impact on business? I never said anything like that during interview. As far training is concerned, I explained compliance officer that in our job, we keep learning, so I need to keep polishing communication and tutoring skills, my self and for the other tutor as well. I told them that, in this job, you are always learning.
In view of the above we do not consider that your job creation is credible. Based on the above consideration the Secretary of State is therefore refusing your application because you have not met the genuineness test at paragraph 245DD(k) when assessing, on the balance of probabilities, the points listed at paragraph 245DD(l) of the Immigration Rules.
I must add that my interview went very well. My marketing was very strong, I had online gumtree ads, our business website, google adwords, then we are working with at four five different tutoring websites who arrange students for us. We have spent significant amount of money on google adwords, commission paid to third parties, I had evidence of that, emailed to compliance officer, showed her how do we manage online ads and get students. We sent them lots of invoices on their request that shows, level of qualification, and topics covered. I had hundreds of students email communication and samples of work done. If compliance officer meant STUDY MATERIAL by LESSON PLAN, then these are two different things. I could have easily shown her that evidence but she didn’t specifically asked me.
I am going to file admin review now. Please help me. You valuable advice will be appreciated. I was very confident after my interview that I’ll be successful in getting my visa extension. However, I am very depressed after getting this refusal.

sm12
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Re: Fresh application for extension refused. Going for Admin review

Post by sm12 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:10 pm

Really sorry to hear this.

Are you able to request a transcript of the interview? That would help in countering the point about employee two and their claim that you said she didn't help the business.

Also, you can state that you were asked for a lesson plan with a brief description of one, and that you were never asked for study material. As for employee two's plans, you can say that you would have had to request these from her as of course she maintains the records for her own students, and you only need to monitor her work from time to time to ensure that she meets students' requirements adequately.

You can say that annual leave wasn't immediately available but you do have records and provide these if asked.

Are you going to pursue a judicial review if this is refused?

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