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Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system. This route is now closed to new applicants.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

sm12
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by sm12 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:43 am

suvalike wrote:
suvalike wrote:
sm12 wrote:The answer to this one would depend upon why you use a virtual address and also what kind of work the two staff members do? Maybe you can list your reasons here so that we can offer better advice.

Among other reasons, I would imagine one reason would be the cost advantage. You can explain this and also that for a start up, spending your resources on a lease/rent would have been too expensive. If you live in an area where renting is very expensive, you can mention this. Moreover, by not having an office, your cost savings can also enable you to charge more competitive prices.
If the word limit permits, you can discuss other factors. For instance, you could discuss how having a virtual address also means that you do not need to worry about the legal aspects of making your home a registered address.

You could briefly talk about the work each of your employees does and explain that the kind of work can be done remotely and does not require an office/premises. You can strengthen your argument by discussing how you work as a team with your staff and coordinate your work.
Thanks for the input.

We do provide the IT services and consultancy.The reasons for the virtual office were same as you said cost effective and most of the work could be done remotely. I spend most of the time on the clients site.So there was no need of the physical office but we had the shared desk space and did have meentings whenever required.So it was not 100 cent virtual.There was facility of having the meeting room and have the work desk whenever needed on PAYG basis.


One employee do the Admin role and other operations role.

The one who does the admin role was responsible for drafting the contracts for clients and co-ordination with the clients and a bit of social media marketing.

The other employee was working as a help desk support e.g resolving the client tickets and queries remotely and forwarding me the complex or 2nd tier issues.So we do have monthly and sometime weekly meetings in our office.
AS per with the above point they also raised the below point.

Please advise how to respond this as well while considering the above point altogether:

[

Employee - XYZ
The payslips and P6O's you provided for your employees XYZ show her home address is in Luton. It does not appear to be plausible that xyz would choose to work for you in an admit' role on minimum wage (q34) when she lives in Luton and your business premises are in London.
When you were asked at interview to explain why you are employing someone who lives in Luton when you are based in London you stated "She lives in London, the Luton address is her registered permanent address". When asked what her London address was you stated "I do not remember". When you were asked if she worked from the business premises you stated "sometimes it is 50/50" (q35), you also stated that sometimes she works from home and sometimes in the office (q36).
It is does not appear to be plausible that xyz would work in a full time admin role in London on 7.20 per hour when her permanent address is in Luton. You stated at interview that xyz spends around 50 % of her work doing her admin duties from her London home (q40), but you could not remember her London address. It is not plausible that she would be working at her London home address for this period of time, but that you would not know the address. It also does not appear to be plausible that xyz could afford to have a home address in London and a permanent address in Luton when she is only paid £7.20 per hour.

]

I never said it in interview that she works 50/50 but i did say to them that she works sometime from home and whenever needed from the desk in the office.i could not understand why do i need to know my employee home address when she might be staying with friends/cousins.Our requirement was to have her address which she gave for the PAYE purpose.

Zimba , sm12 and others seniors , please advise me how can i satisfy them with the above tricky point.
The answer to the point about the virtual address should briefly explain that the kind of work your employees were doing could be done remotely and that you were able to supervise them.

As for this one, you could state that you know her address but that you did not remember it fully as you do not regularly use for PAYE. If you have a record of the address then you can mention that you have it with you. Also, you can say that she visits the office when she has to meet you and not vice versa so there was never a requirement for you to visit her at that address.

You should also state that at the interview, you stated that your employee visits the office as and when required, and that you did not say that she does half her work at the hired desk, as the kind of work she is doing (drafting contracts, etc) can be done remotely and then sent to you for approval/consideration.

Does your employee live in Luton but rents a room in London? How does it work?
If she is staying with her relatives in London, for example, then you could say that Ms. XYZ lives in London with her cousin/relative, and therefore she does not need to pay the rent of a house in London (i.e. the affordability problem does not arise).

Or if she rents a room, then you could say that she is not renting a flat but a room, which is more affordable. Many people who stay in rooms and/or are new to London often tend to change their residence often, so perhaps that is the reason that she wanted to give a fixed address in Luton. You should check with her what the reason is, and on that basis make it clear how it works with her.

I'm not sure why HO raised the point about why she would want to work in London. There are many people who have moved to London and are working on low wages because there are few jobs available in their hometowns due to the the economic downturn. I'm just speculating that this might be the case. Only your employee can give the reason for her stay in London and opting to work here, so perhaps you should check this with her along with the question about her housing.

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:32 pm

Thanks sm12 for the detailed answer..much appreciated

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:34 pm

suvalike wrote:Thanks sm12 for the detailed answer..much appreciated
After asking the questions to my employee i drafted the answer as below for the AR. Please advise if it needs some editing or correction.

XYZ lives in London. She gave her Luton address for PAYE purpose because that’s her parent’s permanent home address. She does not live there permanently though she visits a lot. She is not renting a flat but a room in London which is more affordable for her. She has changed her residence quite often while in London as well as during her working period with us. That’s why she gave us her Luton fixed address for the PAYE records.
I know her current London address but I was not remember it fully while in the interview because it was not being used regularly for PAYE purpose. She visits the office whenever we have meetings and not vice versa so there was never a requirement for me to visit her at her private London address. I told during the interview that my employee work from the office as and whenever required. I did not say that she does half of her work from the hired desk. The kind of work she is doing in her role (drafting contracts, etc.) could be done remotely and then sent to me for approval/consideration.

Dear Zimba can you please also advise or comment.I have not received any comments from you recently. :(

sm12
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by sm12 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:23 am

I would imagine at the PAYG/pay as you use office, you can hire more than one desk if needed? It seems that HO has raised the point about how they can work together at the desk. But couldn't you hire two desks if the need arose? If yes, then you should make this clear in your answer. I also suggest that you write one line about how you supervise your employees' work, because the HO letter suggests that they could not determine how you coordinate the work, etc.

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:02 am

sm12 wrote:I would imagine at the PAYG/pay as you use office, you can hire more than one desk if needed? It seems that HO has raised the point about how they can work together at the desk. But couldn't you hire two desks if the need arose? If yes, then you should make this clear in your answer. I also suggest that you write one line about how you supervise your employees' work, because the HO letter suggests that they could not determine how you coordinate the work, etc.
Thanks a lot sm12 ! I will edit it as suggested .

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:16 am

Reasons to apply for an administrative review

I want to apply because I think the Home Office has: (Select all that apply)

1:, reached an incorrect decision that my supporting documents are not genuine
2, reached an incorrect decision on the grounds that you gave false information
3, reached an incorrect decision on the grounds that you failed to tell the Home Office about something relevant to your application
4, applied the Immigration Rules incorrectly
5, failed to apply the Secretary of State's relevant published policy and guidance
5, made an error in calculating the correct period of immigration leave either held or to be granted

Please advise me which option/options apply to my case for AR ?

Thanks a lot !

sameerb
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by sameerb » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:35 pm

i think no 5.

also i would like to know, how fresh application will work in your case as suggested by awan.

business genius
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by business genius » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:39 pm

Sorry to know your refusal decision.
In London, most of the businesses have hot desks/virtual offices to save cost.
If employees living out of London, they can commute.One of my client's staff living in Banbury,Oxford and he travelled daily to London for work or can work from home due to cloud technology.

Good luck for your AR.

sm12
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by sm12 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:09 pm

Option five about the policy and guidance seems most suitable.

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:39 pm

sm12 wrote:Option five about the policy and guidance seems most suitable.
Thanks guys.

why do you think its not no. 4 ?

sm12
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by sm12 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:53 pm

As it says to select all the options that apply, maybe you can choose both 4 and 5?

sameerb
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by sameerb » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:43 pm

Best luck with your AR. I hope Home Office withdraw their decision. Pls Keep us updated.

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:46 pm

sameerb wrote:Best luck with your AR. I hope Home Office withdraw their decision. Pls Keep us updated.
Thanks ...I hope sooo....Lets seee

I will apply in 2-3 days

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:36 pm

Hi folks,

How can i reply to this point of the CW while he does not understand the IT and business in general. Please advise Thx

"we found than XYZ Ltd were selling their merchandise through the Amazon.co.uk website. It does not appear to be plausible that XYZ Ltd would be paying you to maintain their network and internet on a permanent- basis when they are trading through the Amazon website."

sm12
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by sm12 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:09 am

I think the work that you are doing is more about the maintenance of the internal network at their office right? As in you maintain their office internet/intranet, and do not work on their website?
You will need to tell HO what exactly you do in the office of the company, and then say that it is different from building and running the website.
Also, as for the issue about their website not running, you can say that they do have a running website but perhaps there was an issue with the server, which can sometimes be down, and that you would not know as running their website is not your responsibility.

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:24 pm

Hi Guys,

Few Questions after AR:

In case if i get the rejection in AR....then i can apply for fresh application within 14 days.

So as there is more than one year gap between the my initial extension application and the refusal.

Do i have to show the two employees only up to that period while i applied for initial extension application.
Do i need to submit the recent accounts or just those which i sent for the initial extension application ?


What if i want to leave the country ...Do i have to leave within 14 days too or 28 days after rejection of AR.

Please advise.

Thanks

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zimba
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by zimba » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:50 pm

In case if i get the rejection in AR....then i can apply for fresh application within 14 days.
Yes. Focus on AR for now.
Do i have to show the two employees only up to that period while i applied for initial extension application.
Same as before
Do i need to submit the recent accounts or just those which i sent for the initial extension application ?
No. Only new bank accounts for maintenance + new current appointment report
What if i want to leave the country ...Do i have to leave within 14 days too or 28 days after rejection of AR.
You should also leave as soon as you can or you could be detained.
You should leave voluntarily within 90 days after AR is refused, otherwise you get re-entry ban.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

sameerb
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by sameerb » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:09 am

I never really understood concept of fresh application if extension refused. I have so called expert immigration consultant who has huge office in Canary Wharf, London, I once asked my consultant "what options i have if extension refused" and she said you can apply for AR but if it is refused then you will have to leave the country. She mentioned nothing about fresh application.


In Suvalike case how fresh application will work? because the doubt was on existence of genuine business. fresh application on the same business hows that going to work...can someone pls explain me i would be very thankful to them.

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zimba
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by zimba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:49 am

sameerb wrote:I never really understood concept of fresh application if extension refused. I have so called expert immigration consultant who has huge office in Canary Wharf, London, I once asked my consultant "what options i have if extension refused" and she said you can apply for AR but if it is refused then you will have to leave the country. She mentioned nothing about fresh application.

In Suvalike case how fresh application will work? because the doubt was on existence of genuine business. fresh application on the same business hows that going to work...can someone pls explain me i would be very thankful to them.
The size of an immigration consultant's office does not represent their knowledge regarding the rules. :roll:
You are allowed to apply for a fresh application within 14 days of becoming an overstayer (when your section 3c ends) that is usually when AR is refused. This is known as an out-of-time application. However if you know that you are not eligible for a leave for whatever reason, then sending a new application will be waste of time and resources. If HO is not convinced that you are a genuine entrepreneur, then a fresh application is less likely to change their minds.
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:22 pm

zimba88 wrote:
In case if i get the rejection in AR....then i can apply for fresh application within 14 days.
Yes. Focus on AR for now.
Do i have to show the two employees only up to that period while i applied for initial extension application.
Same as before
Do i need to submit the recent accounts or just those which i sent for the initial extension application ?
No. Only new bank accounts for maintenance + new current appointment report
What if i want to leave the country ...Do i have to leave within 14 days too or 28 days after rejection of AR.
You should also leave as soon as you can or you could be detained.
You should leave voluntarily within 90 days after AR is refused, otherwise you get re-entry ban.

Thanks ZImba for the answers...

Couple of more questions .

So if i leave voluntarily within 90 days after AR rejection....There are not supposed to detain me...But if i overstay more than 90 days after AR rejection then they can detain me...am i right to understand...

Do i have to apply for PAP within 14 days after AR rejection ?

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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by zimba » Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:50 pm

So if i leave voluntarily within 90 days after AR rejection....There are not supposed to detain me...But if i overstay more than 90 days after AR rejection then they can detain me...am i right to understand...
Over stayers could be detained at any time. You usually get an enforcement letter telling you to leave the UK. They usually will not seek to detain you immediately as they prefer you to leave voluntarily, without any costs to them.
Do i have to apply for PAP within 14 days after AR rejection ?
I think so. See: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v9_0.pdf
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:18 pm

Hi folks,

So now my AR has been refused too and i am planning to go for PAP and then JR if needed.

Now i have two questions:

Can i send any additional documents with PAP letter like client contracts etc etc.?

I got the initial refusal in Feb 2017 and then applied for AR and now they removed one refusal point from the original refusal letter but maintained the other reasons as before and send me the revised refusal letter with the same date as it was on the AR refusa letter.

So my confusion is that , for JR which letter date (Initial refusal letter or revised refusal letter) will be considered for the three months qualifying period.

Please advise.

Thanks

sm12
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by sm12 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:45 pm

Very sorry to hear that.

Why was AR refused?
Did they give any detailed reasons?

HIUK888888
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by HIUK888888 » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:28 pm

suvalike wrote:Hi folks,

So now my AR has been refused too and i am planning to go for PAP and then JR if needed.

Now i have two questions:

Can i send any additional documents with PAP letter like client contracts etc etc.?

I got the initial refusal in Feb 2017 and then applied for AR and now they removed one refusal point from the original refusal letter but maintained the other reasons as before and send me the revised refusal letter with the same date as it was on the AR refusa letter.

So my confusion is that , for JR which letter date (Initial refusal letter or revised refusal letter) will be considered for the three months qualifying period.

Please advise.

Thanks
Can u let me know what's your latest reject reason as I have one contract which that company is dormant at moment. Very noisy me.

suvalike
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Re: Tier 1 Entrepreneur Extension Refused after one Year

Post by suvalike » Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:27 pm

sm12 wrote:Very sorry to hear that.

Why was AR refused?
Did they give any detailed reasons?


Summary of the AR refusal is as below:

It was your responsibility to ensure that all the appropriate evidence was submitted with the application.They said why didn't you submit the evidence of services provided to these client companies.The caseworker was not obliged to request these documents from you.However lack of contracts cast doubts on the genuineness of your business activity.So basically same grounds......

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