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Tier-1 Entrepreneur Extension Visa Approval

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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kom
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Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by kom » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:52 am

Hi All,

I have applied for Tier 1 Enterpreneur Extension Visa on 6th Jan 2017. Had Interview on 11th Oct 2017 and got refusal on 28th March 2018. I am Silent member of this forum but i am checking forum everyday.

Below is my refusal points. Please help me to prepare for AR.

1. Premises:
You stated that you working from Home and Its family Home but you were unable to produce any agreement with your family member.

Note: - Compliance office asked me about running business from home and i answered that, this is my family house and my family member is aware that i am running business from Home and she is allowing me to run business from home. Then Officer ask me about any contract /agreement. I said if you need one then i can produce one and send it you later but officer stated that you don't need to do that in my interview.

2. Clients:-
You stated that currently you have 4 contract but you do not have any employee at the time of interview. we can not justify that you have 4 contract and you working by your self. We would expect that business with continuous contract to either have employee or in process of employing new staff.


Note:- I clearly mention to Office during interview that my employee left the job just 1 month back and right now i am capable to handle business by my self.once i have more project/contract i will recruit more employee.

3. Job Creation:-
You unable to provide communication detail between you and your employee.

Note: After interview i have submitted my rota/work assign to my employee schedule and i also mention that i also have my web based admin system where employee can check their daily job detail.I also showed officer my web based admin system during interview.


in refusal UKVI did not give me point for Job Creation and business continuity only.

Now my question is How to fight with them in AR? and if AR Refused then what should be my next steps?

I am requesting all senior member to give some feedback on my refusal point and guide me through this problem.

ssb27
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by ssb27 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:18 am

Why did you not get points for job creation? was their reason based on calculations or the interview?
did you meet the job creation requirement?

kom
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by kom » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:40 am

Job creation points not awarded because of interview.I have satisfied all the jobs with working hours.


Refusal letter is dated on 25th march 2018. and then have given me 14 days for AR. I received Letter on 28th March 2018. Do i need to count 14 days from 28th march or 25th march?

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by marcnath » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:42 am

Sorry, but with the limited information you have provide, it is not easy to answer.

You have clearly been refused in the basis of probabilities.

Few questions:

1. Have you always been working from this "family home" ? Where were you working from when you had employees ? There is no requirement for a contract for you to work from home or any other premises, so I think that is an incorrect reason for refusal.
2. How many contracts did you have before ? You may be able to execute those contracts yourself but who is looking for new business ? This is the toughest one to argue against but it depends on the business.
3. Not clear what this is about. Don't think it is about rota but about how the day to day communication with your employee is.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

kom
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by kom » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:04 am

1. Have you always been working from this "family home" ? Where were you working from when you had employees ? There is no requirement for a contract for you to work from home or any other premises, so I think that is an incorrect reason for refusal.

Ans: I moved to this house after i applied for my extension. i was renting home other place. but they clearly mention about this home only not the previous house.

2. How many contracts did you have before ? You may be able to execute those contracts yourself but who is looking for new business ? This is the toughest one to argue against but it depends on the business.

Ans: I used to have 7 contracts during i have employee but out of those couple of contracts were continuous support and massive.During interview i have 4 projects but those project i can handle by my self.

3. Not clear what this is about. Don't think it is about rota but about how the day to day communication with your employee is.

Ans: I also mention to officer that i am the technical leader on site. I was on site with employee everyday. and if i am not on site then they can call me or whatsup me on my mobile.I also mention that employee was giving me update everyday by phone call.

kom
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by kom » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:05 am

@marcnath:

I have one question for you.

Refusal letter is dated on 25th march 2018. and then have given me 14 days for AR. I received Letter on 28th March 2018. Do i need to count 14 days from 28th march or 25th march?

what will be the next step if AR is refused? Fresh Application or JR?

seasky
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by seasky » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:06 am

You really are going to have to share much more detail if you want a response that can actually help you. Especially share your actual job creation

"Compliance office asked me about running business from home" do you mean interviewer?

What do you mean points for business continuity? there is no such point criteria.

kom
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by kom » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:48 am

@Seasky & @marcnath:

Below is the exact detail of refusal points:

1. Premises:-

You stated that you were working from home.which is family member's address but you were unable to produce any evidence of an agreement to work from that address.

2. Clients:-

Also, you stated that you had 4 current clients but currently had no employees.we would expect a business with continuing contracts to either have employees or be in the process of recruitment but this was not mentioned.

Overall, this leads us to doubt the credibility of your business.

Credibility of the job creation for which you are claiming points:-

The Compliance officer stated that you were unable to provide any evidence of correspondence between yourself and your employees who were usually working on site working with the business you had contract with.

The Compliance officer stated that you were unable to provide any detail of jobs assigned to employee.



Above is the refusal letter exact wording.

Please help me to overcome this issues.

seasky
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by seasky » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:05 am

kom wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:48 am
@Seasky & @marcnath:

Below is the exact detail of refusal points:

1. Premises:-

You stated that you were working from home.which is family member's address but you were unable to produce any evidence of an agreement to work from that address.

2. Clients:-

Also, you stated that you had 4 current clients but currently had no employees.we would expect a business with continuing contracts to either have employees or be in the process of recruitment but this was not mentioned.

Overall, this leads us to doubt the credibility of your business.

Credibility of the job creation for which you are claiming points:-

The Compliance officer stated that you were unable to provide any evidence of correspondence between yourself and your employees who were usually working on site working with the business you had contract with.

The Compliance officer stated that you were unable to provide any detail of jobs assigned to employee.



Above is the refusal letter exact wording.

Please help me to overcome this issues.
I will be blunt (for your sake, being nice to you and saying "it will be OK" does not actually help you). There is not a lot of experience on this forum on overcoming genuineness refusal because it was quite rare till now. The response depends on the details of the story and will be different if it seems you are rather a strong entrepreneur but got caught up in misunderstanding of CW (we had a recent case, and we all agree CW are not good at understanding business but the UK has empowered them to decide anyway, like it or not) or frankly you are on the weaker side but did meet the guidelines.

Please share your entrepreneurial story, what you do, your whole immigration background, your employee background (being at interview without any employees because "you can handle yourself" is not what T1E is ideally about. there may be a response but not without you sharing info)

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by marcnath » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:22 am

kom wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:40 am
Job creation points not awarded because of interview.I have satisfied all the jobs with working hours.


Refusal letter is dated on 25th march 2018. and then have given me 14 days for AR. I received Letter on 28th March 2018. Do i need to count 14 days from 28th march or 25th march?
It is normally 14 days from date of letter - at least that is what you should plan on.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

heyaheya
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by heyaheya » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:24 am

kom wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:48 am
@Seasky & @marcnath:

Below is the exact detail of refusal points:

1. Premises:-

You stated that you were working from home.which is family member's address but you were unable to produce any evidence of an agreement to work from that address.

2. Clients:-

Also, you stated that you had 4 current clients but currently had no employees.we would expect a business with continuing contracts to either have employees or be in the process of recruitment but this was not mentioned.

Overall, this leads us to doubt the credibility of your business.

Credibility of the job creation for which you are claiming points:-

The Compliance officer stated that you were unable to provide any evidence of correspondence between yourself and your employees who were usually working on site working with the business you had contract with.

The Compliance officer stated that you were unable to provide any detail of jobs assigned to employee.



Above is the refusal letter exact wording.

Please help me to overcome this issues.
hello kom .. I am sorry for you refusal.. this is heartbreaking.. seriously jus these two refusal points you got... thr are more experts who can guide you on that... but what i think is this should get cleared on AR.. I have seen few cases where ppl have filed AR with more documents and the decision was overturned..............we had one Member her visa was rejected on balance of probabilities as well.. but she complained about case worker plus made AR with all supporting documents.. and her AR was overturned... i am jus gana paste the link for your reference... we have done this for one of my friend as welll .. but still waiting for his result.. lets see.. these alll refusal points are scary for all of us tbh... plz be strong .. inshallah evything will be fine. good luck

heyaheya
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by heyaheya » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:29 am


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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by marcnath » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:40 am

kom wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:04 am
1. Have you always been working from this "family home" ? Where were you working from when you had employees ? There is no requirement for a contract for you to work from home or any other premises, so I think that is an incorrect reason for refusal.

Ans: I moved to this house after i applied for my extension. i was renting home other place. but they clearly mention about this home only not the previous house.

2. How many contracts did you have before ? You may be able to execute those contracts yourself but who is looking for new business ? This is the toughest one to argue against but it depends on the business.

Ans: I used to have 7 contracts during i have employee but out of those couple of contracts were continuous support and massive.During interview i have 4 projects but those project i can handle by my self.

3. Not clear what this is about. Don't think it is about rota but about how the day to day communication with your employee is.

Ans: I also mention to officer that i am the technical leader on site. I was on site with employee everyday. and if i am not on site then they can call me or whatsup me on my mobile.I also mention that employee was giving me update everyday by phone call.
Still not enough information to give some ideas.
Broadly speaking, if you had a substantially good business running before - more than the minimum employees needed, an offices good revenue, were doing marketing and so on, then you have a strong argument - you can try and argue that the compliance officer should have evaluated the business over the longer period of time rather than just at the time of interview.
You then need to explain why the business was down at the time of interview - why you lost contracts which then led to the need to reduce employees. That would be quite normal in a business.
On the communication, you can just say that based on the information you gave, the CO made a mistake in concluding.
As with all genuineness test cases, it is not one point that decides it, it is the combination. So, if you are able to argue against one or two successfully, you could get the decision overturned.
On what happens if the AR is unsuccessful, you can make a fresh application. You can also file a JR. It is not an OR - you can do both.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

kom
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by kom » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:54 am

Thanks a lot everyone for your kind responses. I appreciate everyone's response. I will try to provide detail information and will send some documents as well.

Thanks a lot.

seasky
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by seasky » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:29 am

marcnath wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:40 am



Still not enough information to give some ideas.
Broadly speaking, if you had a substantially good business running before - more than the minimum employees needed, an offices good revenue, were doing marketing and so on, then you have a strong argument - you can try and argue that the compliance officer should have evaluated the business over the longer period of time rather than just at the time of interview.
You then need to explain why the business was down at the time of interview - why you lost contracts which then led to the need to reduce employees. That would be quite normal in a business.
On the communication, you can just say that based on the information you gave, the CO made a mistake in concluding.
As with all genuineness test cases, it is not one point that decides it, it is the combination. So, if you are able to argue against one or two successfully, you could get the decision overturned.
On what happens if the AR is unsuccessful, you can make a fresh application. You can also file a JR. It is not an OR - you can do both.
KOM,

Marcnath explained it very well!

Another point, you are the first case I am aware of that was declined employee points along the lines of "balance of probabilities" (usually they give you points, if you have all the evidentiary paperwork, and refuse you on genuineness separately). Overcome this and the rest of their case (partially) falls apart

sm12
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by sm12 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:28 pm

Sorry to hear about this.

What is the nature of your business? Can you produce any emails/messages showing communication or collaboration with your employees?

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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by regularuser » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:12 pm

Hi Kom,

sorry to hear this news but can you explain just one point. How long the employee working for you ?

When you made an application - is employee working for you and if yes how long after the application he worked for you ?

Good Luck with AR

kom
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by kom » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:41 pm

Hi SM12,

What is the nature of your business? Can you produce any emails/messages showing communication or collaboration with your employees?

Nature of business is IT Consultancy. I already shows compliance officer my web based admin system where you can see the assigned work to employee.

kom
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by kom » Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:50 pm

Hi Regularuser,


sorry to hear this news but can you explain just one point. How long the employee working for you ?

Ans: I have created 2 jobs. Job 1 lasted for 13 month and job 2 lasted for 18 months.When I applied for My extension application (6th Jan 2017) i had job2 continued and it lasted up to end of july 2017. Employee left before interview.

When you made an application - is employee working for you and if yes how long after the application he worked for you ?

Ans: Yes, when i made application i had one employee continue. Employee worked 7 more months after extension application.

Thanks a lot.

sm12
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by sm12 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:02 pm

kom wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:41 pm
Hi SM12,

What is the nature of your business? Can you produce any emails/messages showing communication or collaboration with your employees?

Nature of business is IT Consultancy. I already shows compliance officer my web based admin system where you can see the assigned work to employee.
In your AR, you should go into detail about how you work on each of the four contracts, and how you manage all contracts yourself.

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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by nali78 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:45 pm

Hi kom I’m really sorry to hear about your refusal. Inshallah you will be success in AR my pray with you .Have you received your partial or full refund before refusal?

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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by nali78 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:47 pm

I mean IHS refund?

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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by marcnath » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:25 am

kom wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 6:50 pm
Hi Regularuser,


sorry to hear this news but can you explain just one point. How long the employee working for you ?

Ans: I have created 2 jobs. Job 1 lasted for 13 month and job 2 lasted for 18 months.When I applied for My extension application (6th Jan 2017) i had job2 continued and it lasted up to end of july 2017. Employee left before interview.

When you made an application - is employee working for you and if yes how long after the application he worked for you ?

Ans: Yes, when i made application i had one employee continue. Employee worked 7 more months after extension application.

Thanks a lot.
I think you have a reasonable prospect of success in an AR. Good luck.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

miumiuuk
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by miumiuuk » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:44 pm

in my opinion:

1. You are applying for entrepreneur visa extension.Your business activities during the three years time should be taken into account rather than the short period time that your entrepreneur visa has been expired. you have provided annual accounts, contracts etc. as supporting documents to prove you genuinely ran your business from Feb 2014 to Feb 2017.

2. You have created at least 2 full-time jobs that have existed for at least 12 months during 3 years. You have provided pay slips. Fps.......etc. as evidence. You are eligible to claim the points of job creations. the Case officer has no right to intervene your business and the recruitment, you are the director of the company, you know when would be the best time for the company to recruiting new employees, not an immigration officer. (none of CW's business) According to Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) visa guidance, your new recruitment is only relevant to your 5-year ILR application, not your visa extension.

sorry for the refusal, and wish you win your ar. good luck!

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marcnath
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Re: Tier 1 Ext Refused after interview -Urgent help Needed

Post by marcnath » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:03 pm

miumiuuk wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:44 pm
in my opinion:


2. You have created at least 2 full-time jobs that have existed for at least 12 months during 3 years. You have provided pay slips. Fps.......etc. as evidence. You are eligible to claim the points of job creations. the Case officer has no right to intervene your business and the recruitment, you are the director of the company, you know when would be the best time for the company to recruiting new employees, not an immigration officer. (none of CW's business) According to Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) visa guidance, your new recruitment is only relevant to your 5-year ILR application, not your visa extension.
Just a point here.

Interestingly, the CW has been given the right, based on genuineness test, not to award points even if all the evidence for an attribute has been provided.

Pg 29 of the guidance has the following:

Please Note: If we are not satisfied you have met the test in relation to a points-scoring requirement in Appendix A of the Immigration Rules, those points will not be awarded.

This makes calling this a points based system quite ridiculous and potentially would not stand up to a judicial challenge, but it explains why OP has not been given points for job creation and business continuity.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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