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Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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Atif786
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Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by Atif786 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:16 am

Hello Everyone and all the gurus and moderators,

i have just found out in policy guide and Modernise guide to the case workers , it states on page no:47 version 11/2016

Types of investment accepted for the award of points :
1)Direct cash investment
2) Share capital
3)Director’s loan ( unsecured and subordinated in favour of third-party creditors.

Types of investment excluded from the award of points :
it goes in details about property management and construction business , but in the last para it also states
"Money deposited in a bank account, even if it is in a United Kingdom business bank account, is not counted as investment in business. The money should be used in the business, for example to encourage growth or expansion, or to improve services or products. "
( the same para is there in modernised guide to case worker)

i am worried as i invested all 50k in 2015 and it's never been spent as my company has been in profit since it incorporation and all wages, goods and running cost born by the company through it's profit.
and 2nd worry is that i have mentioned this in my covering letter and accountant's confirmation letter that 50k still available in the business account.

will it cause any problem? gurus your view on it please?
Atif

sm12
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by sm12 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:58 am

You don't have to use the money if the business is able to cover its expenses. Technically, you could even argue that you are using your invested money and the revenue is still being held in the business account.

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marcnath
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by marcnath » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:42 am

Atif786 wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:16 am
Hello Everyone and all the gurus and moderators,

i have just found out in policy guide and Modernise guide to the case workers , it states on page no:47 version 11/2016

Types of investment accepted for the award of points :
1)Direct cash investment
2) Share capital
3)Director’s loan ( unsecured and subordinated in favour of third-party creditors.

Types of investment excluded from the award of points :
it goes in details about property management and construction business , but in the last para it also states
"Money deposited in a bank account, even if it is in a United Kingdom business bank account, is not counted as investment in business. The money should be used in the business, for example to encourage growth or expansion, or to improve services or products. "
( the same para is there in modernised guide to case worker)

i am worried as i invested all 50k in 2015 and it's never been spent as my company has been in profit since it incorporation and all wages, goods and running cost born by the company through it's profit.
and 2nd worry is that i have mentioned this in my covering letter and accountant's confirmation letter that 50k still available in the business account.

will it cause any problem? gurus your view on it please?
First of all - no, it not an issue.
But this question always confuses me. Obviously you have been spending money in your business - payroll, rent, travel, phone, etc, etc. And they should be paid from your business bank account mostly. How do you know some of that expense was not the money you invested ? Did you keep in a separate bank account ?
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Atif786
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by Atif786 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:22 pm

Hi marcnath, actually after 50 k investment whatever you spend on business running cost , wages etc , but at the end of the year your company's sales is £60k and company's expenses including all the spendings is £50k then company is in £10k profit and we pay tax on that profit , so our company's balance on statement should be 50k directors loan and £10k profit ( before tax) = 60k so director's loan will remain untouched until times when company's profit is £30k and expenses £50k so company will get that money either from money avaliable from previous year's profit or director's loan.
Atif

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marcnath
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by marcnath » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:33 pm

And that is my point - the money you invested has been spent. Some new money has come in.
And of course in the accounts the 50k will stay as DL until the company pays you back - this has nothing to do with what is spent. Even if the company did not make a cent your Dl will still show 50K owed to you
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Atif786
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by Atif786 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:56 pm

Ok I got your point , my worry is I have written in the
Covering letter that 50k is still avaliable in business account as company has been in profit , so it may not misinterpreted by the case worker .
But my spendings or admin expenses over three years is nearly 90-100k.
I hope it won't cause any issue , being very pessimistic about all this .
Can only pray that everything falls in place
Atif

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marcnath
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by marcnath » Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:52 pm

Atif786 wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:56 pm
Ok I got your point , my worry is I have written in the
Covering letter that 50k is still avaliable in business account as company has been in profit , so it may not misinterpreted by the case worker .
But my spendings or admin expenses over three years is nearly 90-100k.
I hope it won't cause any issue , being very pessimistic about all this .
Can only pray that everything falls in place
That definitely won't be your problem. Don't worry.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Atif786
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by Atif786 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 7:28 pm

Thanks Marcnath
Atif

Atif786
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by Atif786 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:21 am

Hi Marcnath, this is related to job creation, i checked that Bhavin002 who's visa is refused recently in admin review for not creting 2 full time jobs, so i went through old and new policy guide all over again and i get an impression that pre april 2014 won't have to join the 2 part time jobs to make it equivalent to full time.
as i the policy guide they have clearly given examples for pre april 2016 and post april 2016 and it reads as follows,
Post 6 April 2014
163. If you successfully applied for entry clearance or switched into the route from 6 April 2014,
the employment must:
 be for at least 2 separate jobs;
 exist for at least a full 12 months each.
Examples
The following can be considered as acceptable employment:
 the hours of workers in 2 part-time jobs can be combined to add up to 30 hours a week or
more and form the equivalent of one full-time job, as long as the 2 part-time jobs exist
for 12 months. By way of an example, it could be that one employee worked 20 hours in
one part-time job; Another employee worked 10 hours in another part-time job; If they have
both been employed for at least 12 months, they can be combined to make one full-time
job. If you are combining jobs in this way, you must make it clear in your application which
employees/jobs are being used;
 within the same job, another worker can replace a worker who is employed for part of a
year and then leaves the job, so that the employment as a whole adds up to 12 months.
However, if there is a gap between one worker leaving a post and another worker starting
employment, the period when the post is not filled will not be counted - only periods during
which a worker is employed in a post will be considered. If you are combining workers
within the same job, you must make it clear in your application which employees are being
used.
( the there is guidance for ILR application after that for pre april 2014.

Pre 6 April 2014 transitional arrangement
169. If you successfully applied to enter the route before 6 April 2014, and you are making an
extension application or a 5 year settlement application, you may continue to employ:

 one worker for 24 months
 one worker for 6 months and one for 18 months
4 workers for 6 months each
and score points for job creation.
so there is no note regarding combining the jobs, so for pre april 2014 , i think we just need to fill in the job creation table with the periods we are claiming points for and if everything adds up to 2 equivalent full time it should be fine,
in my case i have filled in the table for the entire 22 months period for 2 employees with separate entries when hourly rate changes and i have submitted all 22 months wage slips and RTI/FPS reports , so technically i am calming points for all 22 months for each employee with
11 months of full time ( more than 130 hours each month) for each employee, and
11 months of Part time ( less than 130 hours but more than 120 hours but in application form i put them as full time considering 120 hours per month as full time ) for each employee.
the only this is i haven't combined the part time hours of these 2 employees but i think for pre april 2014 there wasn't any requirement to combine the jobs and it should be considered as it is.
let me know your thoughts
sorry for the long post.
Atif

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marcnath
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by marcnath » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:40 am

The fact that the pre-April 2014 exceptions don't mention part-time jobs just mean that the guidance for PT jobs is the same pre and post.

The requirement to combine PT jobs existed even pre April 2014.

Having said that, I don't think CW reject applications because the job table was filled wrongly. The table is meant to assist the CW and on its own is not a requirement.

So, in your case, whether FT is considered 120 or 130 hours, you should be ok because you meet the requirement.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Atif786
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Posts: 268
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Re: Types of investment excluded from the award of points.

Post by Atif786 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:58 am

Thanks Marcnath , appreciate it .
Atif

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