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Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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arnomarga
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Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by arnomarga » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:07 am

Hi,

I am going to apply for Extension next month and little confused about the 2 jobs rules.

In last 3 years I have employed 4 part time employees as follows:

Employee 1 = 23 months (resigned)
Employee 2 = 16 months (active)
Employee 3 = 16 months (active)
Employee 4 = 5 months (resigned)

Am I fulfilling the requirements for 2 Jobs Creation?

I have invested in an existing business and when I taken over the company in 2014, I hired an employee but I did 1 month before I appointed as a director and that employee is still working for us.

Do you think I can also use that employee for my extension application?

I would be very grateful if you guys could give me some advice.

Thanks

sm12
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by sm12 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:05 am

Do you mean one of the four employees is from before you became director?

When are you applying?

arnomarga
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by arnomarga » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:10 am

hi sm12,

No he is the 5th one which I hired a month before I become the director of the company but I was actively working for the company.

I am applying next month.

arnomarga
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by arnomarga » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:32 am

Just to clarify the dates of employment:

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 2: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 3: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

I would appreciate if zimba88 could input here. thanks

sm12
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by sm12 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:07 am

arnomarga wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:32 am
Just to clarify the dates of employment:

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 2: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 3: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

I would appreciate if zimba88 could input here. thanks
I understand they worked part time, but how many hours per week did they work?

Also, I think you can only claim for employees who became a part of your business after you became a director.

arnomarga
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by arnomarga » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:12 am

17 hours a week.

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marcnath
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by marcnath » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:35 am

arnomarga wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:32 am
Just to clarify the dates of employment:

Employee 1: Apr 2015 to Feb 2017 = 23 months
Employee 2: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 3: Jun 2016 to Date = 16 months
Employee 4: Mar 2017 to Aug 2017 = 6 months

I would appreciate if zimba88 could input here. thanks
Did you apply before or after April 2014 ?
If you are pre 2014 and you were a Director before Apr 2015, then this will satisfy your requirements.
However if you are post 2014, this will not.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

arnomarga
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by arnomarga » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:33 am

After April 2014.

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marcnath
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by marcnath » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:38 am

arnomarga wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:33 am
After April 2014.
Ok. So the rules are clear that you can only combine two part-time jobs if both have lasted for 12 months each.
So, Employee 4 cannot be combines with any other job, which means you have only one full time job as of now. Sorry.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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marcnath
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by marcnath » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:49 am

You said YOU hired one employee 1 month before you were appointed as a Director.

Can you explain the circumstances that led to that ? Had you already agreed on the purchase of the business, for example ?

Also, how many employees did the business have in the 12 months before you joined the business ? Are those employees still continuing ?
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Zimba
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by Zimba » Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:37 am

Am I fulfilling the requirements for 2 Jobs Creation?
No, as all 4 part time positions must exist for 12 months to be combined (post April 2014 applicants)
I have invested in an existing business and when I taken over the company in 2014, I hired an employee but I did 1 month before I appointed as a director and that employee is still working for us.
Do you think I can also use that employee for my extension application?
No. Any employee hired before you became a director will not count. Also your job creation must increase the NET positions in the company by at least TW. This means if 4 position existed before you became a director, then after you became a director the number of positions must remain 6 or above (net increase of two)
Advice is given based on my personal research and experience only. Do NOT contact me via private message for immigration advice

awan905
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by awan905 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:34 pm

arnomarga wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:33 am
After April 2014.
After April 2014, you can only use minimum 2 employees(positions) working full time for 12 months each

arnomarga
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by arnomarga » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:19 pm

Thanks marcnat and zimba!

I genuinely took over the business in April 2014(taken over the office) and became a director in May 2014. By the time I took the business there was only 1 director and he was the only employee. He resigned after I took the business.

I hired an employee as soon as I started over the business, I am not sure that his starting date was April 2014 or May 2014. My Accountant is on holiday and will be back next week so I will have to wait for him to check this employee joining date. By that time my accountant was using different software and he posted the salary slips which I am unable to find. I have asked that employee and he also does not know exact month.

Let suppose he started in May 2014, will I be able to use him with other 4 partimes employees?

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marcnath
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by marcnath » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:25 pm

arnomarga wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:19 pm
Thanks marcnat and zimba!

I genuinely took over the business in April 2014(taken over the office) and became a director in May 2014. By the time I took the business there was only 1 director and he was the only employee. He resigned after I took the business.

I hired an employee as soon as I started over the business, I am not sure that his starting date was April 2014 or May 2014. My Accountant is on holiday and will be back next week so I will have to wait for him to check this employee joining date. By that time my accountant was using different software and he posted the salary slips which I am unable to find. I have asked that employee and he also does not know exact month.

Let suppose he started in May 2014, will I be able to use him with other 4 partimes employees?
`

Yes, if he started in May 2014 (after you became the Director) you can use him.
Was the previous director on payroll ?
As you joined a business, you need to submit FPS for 12 months prior also. If he is on payroll, then it will show 1 employee 12 months before you joined.
Which means you need to have had three FT employees (2 additional).
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by arnomarga » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:23 am

Thanks marcnath!

Before I joined the business, previous director was on payroll for couple of years but I don't know exactly for how long and how much salary he was talking.

Is there any particular requirements for previous employment e.g Full-time or Part-time?

I am bit confused here, I know I need to show 2 full-time or 4 part times after I joined the business but what about the previous employment? There was only 1 employee and he was the director.

Can you kindly explain the above? thanks

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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by arnomarga » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:51 am

If I could understand correctly as there was an employee(ex-director) before I joined the business so I will have to create 3 full-time or 6 part-time jobs?

I am not sure when the director was employed into his business. But I am sure he was not as employed when I joined the business.

As per guidance notes:

If you have taken over or joined a business that employed workers before you joined it, you
must provide the following documentation for the year immediately before the jobs were created
and the year that the jobs were created, showing the net increase in employment, which you
must sign and date:

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marcnath
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by marcnath » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:12 am

arnomarga wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:51 am
If I could understand correctly as there was an employee(ex-director) before I joined the business so I will have to create 3 full-time or 6 part-time jobs?
The way the rules are set up, you need to have a NET increase of two jobs. While the way HO measures that is not clear, given that they ask for the past 12 months, we can assume they will only look at that period.
So, if the previous director was on payroll (you need those documents anyway so you will be able to find out) for most of the previous 12 months, then you will need 3 FT or 6 PT jobs.
It is up to you to make the proper argument when you submit your application.
For example, if he was only employed for 6 months out of the previous 12, you can argue that previous employment was 0.5, so you need only 2.5 employees after you joined. Same argument for PT. If the previous director was parttime, then you need only 2 FT/4 PT Plus one more PT and so on.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by arnomarga » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:48 am

Thanks so much marcnath!

When I joined the company and took the business I had seen some salary slips of ex director and never really bothered to look deeply. Yesterday I have spoken with ex-director and he confirmed that he was never on my company payroll. Actually he is also running another company and those salary slips are for that company.

I took all my previous files from storeroom and I was so relieved after looking those payslips and they are actually for his other company.

Now there is only problem about the employee who joined when I took the business. If he joined the same month as I became the director then all is good but what if he joined a month before I became a director? Can I get a letter from accountant that I was engaged in this business from that month?

Could anyone give me any strong point so I could argue in my application?

Thanks!

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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by marcnath » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:25 am

arnomarga wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:48 am
Thanks so much marcnath!

When I joined the company and took the business I had seen some salary slips of ex director and never really bothered to look deeply. Yesterday I have spoken with ex-director and he confirmed that he was never on my company payroll. Actually he is also running another company and those salary slips are for that company.

I took all my previous files from storeroom and I was so relieved after looking those payslips and they are actually for his other company.

Now there is only problem about the employee who joined when I took the business. If he joined the same month as I became the director then all is good but what if he joined a month before I became a director? Can I get a letter from accountant that I was engaged in this business from that month?

Could anyone give me any strong point so I could argue in my application?

Thanks!
That makes thing easier. Since the company had no employees, you will not have FPS for the past 12 months, but will have to provide other evidence such as a P32 for that period. Or some evidence to show there were no employees in the 12 months before you joined (accountant letter, for example)

As for claiming points for your FT employee, I personally think HO will likely accept it, given that it is very clear it is your involvement that led to the hiring. But it is tough to be sure.

The guidelines state:
197. You can only use employment created when you were engaged in the business. If you joined an existing company as a director you may only submit employment created after you joined the company.
There is a bit of contradiction built into this clause, but you can definitely argue that you have been engaged in April. And that is how you should get the accountant to write the letter.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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marcnath
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Re: Urgent Hep - Job Creation

Post by marcnath » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:46 am

marcnath wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:38 am
arnomarga wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:33 am
After April 2014.
Ok. So the rules are clear that you can only combine two part-time jobs if both have lasted for 12 months each.
So, Employee 4 cannot be combines with any other job, which means you have only one full time job as of now. Sorry.
Just to add something on to this.

The rules are very clear that you need to have two FT equivalent jobs of 12 months each. There is a clear differentiation between jobs and employees throughout the immigration rules.

The way I read that, if I have an employee for 12 months as say a marketing manager, then I create a new job for a sales manager and appoint the same employee as a sales manager for the next 12 months, I have created 2 jobs of 12 months each and should meet the letter of the law.

In the job creation table, I would have two jobs of 12 months each.

Not sure if anyone has applied on this basis and have it approved.

You only specified the employees working periods, not the jobs they are doing. So, the point is that depending on the actual jobs the employees were involved in, you may have 4 PT jobs. But you know your business best.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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