Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Urgent refusal

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Mon May 14, 2018 3:05 pm

Hi

Refused on genuinity issue on the basis of interview my and my partners answer did not match they said such as marketing amount , mistake on website, I said we don’t rely on website and he said we got. Two three client from website but not sure pathetically word to word they expect to match.

ssb27
Newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:43 pm

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by ssb27 » Mon May 14, 2018 3:09 pm

Sorry about your refusal.

Please give more details, ie the wordings in refusal letter

Also, what is your timeline?

nali78
Junior Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:42 pm
Mood:
Pakistan

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by nali78 » Mon May 14, 2018 3:33 pm

Im sorry to hear about your refusal . Please share your time line and refusal points with detail . Thanks

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Mon May 14, 2018 3:37 pm

It’s long so can’t type here but basic thing is both of our answer did not match like I said 1000£ spent on marketing and he said 1500£
I said we don’t rely on website for business and he said we had two three customer from website , in last year our turnover was huge so I said because of we raise share capital and my partener said we started getting more business, last one was funny they said you have transferred 21000£ to your clients ac but that money we received not transferred. I applied last jan 2017 interviewed March 18

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Tue May 15, 2018 7:41 am

REFUSAL POINT BY HOMEOFFICE: During your interview you were asked by the visiting officer how much you spent on advertising your business. You responded by stating that you spent between 1500£ and 2000£. Which included printing leaflets and business cards in addition to setting up your website. Concerns are raised due to the fact that the above listed unaudited accounts provided with your application does not show any advertising expenses for any of the periods in which you have been operating your business. We would expect your unaudited accounts to reflect any expenses your business has incurred since it began operating.
And the fact that they don’t raises concerns with regards to the credibility of your unaudited accounts and your claimed business activity in the United kingdom.

Our above concerns are furthered due to the fact that when your team member was asked the same question during his interview, he responded by stating that you had spent less than £1000 on advertising, and also stated that this was spent on leaflets business cards and setting up your website. The fact that you provided conflicting responses Fadds to our concerns, as we would expect you both to be aware of the expenses you have incurred whilst running your business and be able to provide the same figurers when questioned.
Following on from the above you were also asked to explain how the sales figures shown in you unaudited accounts had increased significantly from 2815£ in 2014, to 30948£ in 2015 and to 65533£. You responded by stating that included in the £65533 figure would be the £50000 share capital held in your business. You therefore made no effort to explain the particulars with regards to how you came to earn this much, in relation to the work you have previously claimed to have carried out. We do not feel that the above figures are realistic given the vague descriptions of work and clients you have provided during the rest of your interview.

In addition to this when your partner was asked the same question he stated that in your first year it was just him and you with only a few customers, and that in the second year you got more clients and charged for more services, as you were only providing marketing and consultancy services initially. He added that in 2016 you had the income from XYZ LTD. Initial concerns are raised due to the fact that both the responses you provided differed significantly.

There are concerns his response as he stated that you had gotten more clients in your second year trading, however during the rest of his interview he only named two clients, XYZ Ltd and ABC who have since shut down. We therefore do not find the claimed significant increase in sales figures credible as you have both been unable to evidence the required amount of work during you interview in order for these figures to appear realistic.
During your interview you were questioned as to whether you rely on your website in order to attract clients to your business, and to provide details of any clients who have contracted you for services after viewing your website. You responded by stating that you do rely on your website to attract new clients. You added that you had some potential clients contact you through the website in 2016 for consultancy work but you are mainly concentrating on your contract with XYZ.

When your team member was asked the same question he responded by stating that you had two or three clients contact you in the last two years, but he was not sure whether this was through your website or from handling out business cards. His response creates the impression that you do not rely on your websites in order to get new clients and as such this contradicts your response. Again, we would not expect responses to contradict each other and the fact that they do adds to our existing concerns.

Following on from the above,the interviewing office then asked whether you were aware of the spelling and grammatical errors on your website. You responded by stating that you were not aware. This adds to our above concerns as you previously state that you rely on your website to attract clients. We would therefor expect you to check the spelling and grammar on your website as a basic requirement.
During our interview the visiting office also asked you to provide further details with regards to one of your clients, XYZ Ltd. They highlighted that your business bank statements show that as well as receiving payments from XYZ Ltd you also send payments to them, and then asked what these payments are for. You responded by stating that you were not aware of this and added that it was possibly due to an invoice being received twice and as a result, being refunded to your client. We do not find this response credible, as your business bank statements show a total of £21.406.80 being transferred to XYZ Ltd between September 2016 and November 2017. We would therefore not expect you client to over pay you by such a significant amount.

When your team member was asked the same question, he responded by stating that you bought top up vouchers for your clients, and that your sales people carried vouchers to sell to customers whilst promoting XYZ Ltd. We would not deem this the normal way to carry out work for a client as we would expect that if they are paying you to market of promote their business, they would provide you with the relevant tools or products to do so. We therefore find it unrealistic that these transactions could purely be for the purchase of top up vouchers, as you claimed during your interview.

Following on from this , on 10 September 2017 your business bank statements show you transferred 1541.80£ to XYZ Ltd with the reference “ JULY INVOICE RETURN”. As such, this clearly shows that the payments made to XYZ ltd are not solely for the reasons stated by team member. Also the fact you both provided contradictory responses to this question furthers our concerns with regards to the genuineness of your business operations and also the creditability of your claimed business partnership.


What are the chances in ar and JR please moderaters help and do I have 14 days from date written or date received thanx

User avatar
marcnath
Moderator
Posts: 5375
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by marcnath » Tue May 15, 2018 9:09 am

1bradymate wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 7:41 am
as your business bank statements show a total of £21.406.80 being transferred to XYZ Ltd between September 2016 and November 2017. We would therefore not expect you client to over pay you by such a significant amount.


Following on from this , on 10 September 2017 your business bank statements show you transferred 1541.80£ to XYZ Ltd with the reference “ JULY INVOICE RETURN”. As such, this clearly shows that the payments made to XYZ ltd are not solely for the reasons stated by team member. Also the fact you both provided contradictory responses to this question furthers our concerns with regards to the genuineness of your business operations and also the creditability of your claimed business partnership.


What are the chances in ar and JR please moderaters help and do I have 14 days from date written or date received thanx
I am generally very skeptical about HO's genuineness test, but this particular example seems to be the toughest one to argue against.
Do you now have a proper explanation for this payment to your customer ?
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Tue May 15, 2018 9:18 am

Hi thanx for reply but this big. Payment we have not transferred to them they transferred to us. It’s clear case worker mistake

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Tue May 15, 2018 9:41 am

And invoice return payment we did but it was mistake by client so we return and we also mentioned in interview

User avatar
marcnath
Moderator
Posts: 5375
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by marcnath » Tue May 15, 2018 10:03 am

ok. So, I guess you just have to argue that the CW has made mistakes.

1) Accounts are not expected to itemise line items, so it is incorrect to conclude that the accounts were not credible on the basis of not listing such details.
2) The variation of the spend between the two team members just amounts to x% of the overall costs. It is incorrect to judge credibility on such small variations.
3) Explain the revenue growth and make the similar conclusion .....
And so on.
Good luck with your AR.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Tue May 15, 2018 10:14 am

So what about the other reasons thanx for quick reply

teddybear79
Member
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:20 am

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by teddybear79 » Tue May 15, 2018 10:21 am

marcnath wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:03 am
ok. So, I guess you just have to argue that the CW has made mistakes.

1) Accounts are not expected to itemise line items, so it is incorrect to conclude that the accounts were not credible on the basis of not listing such details.
2) The variation of the spend between the two team members just amounts to x% of the overall costs. It is incorrect to judge credibility on such small variations.
3) Explain the revenue growth and make the similar conclusion .....
And so on.
Good luck with your AR.
A typical example of non-accounting personal analyzing accounting statements, Case officer is not a qualified accountant. Website refusal is rubbish, this is t1 visa, not English grammar test.

The only thing, important is funds paid back to the client, explain it properly with a letter from the client send to caseworker by post.

mig2015
Member
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:13 pm

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by mig2015 » Tue May 15, 2018 11:01 am

Really sorry for this.

Sounds payment(s) to client have questioned genuineness of the business activity, the main refusal point, and then HO built the rest around this (they may need more than a certain amount of paragraphs in a refusal letter, I've recently seen rumours in an article about decision makers on asylum cases).

Considering sales as an important indicator of business activity, they now take those payments like as money-transfer-cycle to build revenue. Unless there are strong justification for any payment to a client (if this is not a refund for a sales made earlier for example), this would be really tough to argue against.

Best of luck by the way

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Tue May 15, 2018 7:54 pm

Hi

My partners visa refused with me and we are applying for AR my question is if our AR rejects
But my partner is finishing his 10 years can he apply for ilr even after AR rejects.

User avatar
marcnath
Moderator
Posts: 5375
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by marcnath » Tue May 15, 2018 7:57 pm

1bradymate wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 7:54 pm
Hi

My partners visa refused with me and we are applying for AR my question is if our AR rejects
But my partner is finishing his 10 years can he apply for ilr even after AR rejects.
Depends on when his 10 year finishes. If he files a new extension application and it is not decided, then yes.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Tue May 15, 2018 8:04 pm

No can he apply as soon as AR get rejected like instead of applying second fresh application he already finished 10 years

User avatar
CR001
Moderator
Posts: 62061
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:55 pm
Location: London
Mood:
South Africa

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by CR001 » Tue May 15, 2018 8:09 pm

His Section 3C protection ends if AR is refused.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Tue May 15, 2018 8:14 pm

So you mean to say he can apply while ARbin progress not once rejected

User avatar
marcnath
Moderator
Posts: 5375
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by marcnath » Tue May 15, 2018 8:56 pm

1bradymate wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:04 pm
No can he apply as soon as AR get rejected like instead of applying second fresh application he already finished 10 years
Yes, he can. He can even apply without going through AR
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

1bradymate
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:07 pm
India

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by 1bradymate » Wed May 16, 2018 8:04 am

If my partner apply for ilr and he pull out from entrepreneur partner ship after AR gets rejected can I put 25000 and apply alone fresh and will I get AR and JR chance in second application thanx

User avatar
marcnath
Moderator
Posts: 5375
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:27 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: Urgent refusal

Post by marcnath » Wed May 16, 2018 8:08 am

1bradymate wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:04 am
If my partner apply for ilr and he pull out from entrepreneur partner ship after AR gets rejected can I put 25000 and apply alone fresh and will I get AR and JR chance in second application thanx
Even if your partner goes for ILR, you would not need to put in the 25000 unless he withdraws that money.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Post Reply
cron