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visa Refusal

Only for UK Tier 1 (Entrepreneur) points system

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Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:52 pm

I have been awarded points of '' INVESTMENT, JOB CREATION, APPLICANT REGISTERED SELF EMPLOYED/DIRECTOR WITHIN 6 MONTH OF LEAVE GRANT & English LANGUAGE''.
Total Point Awarded: 60
ist Reason:
I provided my saving account statement as a maintenance fund of more than 90 days. They considered Business bank statement which i provided as a proof of business transaction from last year. They said it from January 2017 to April and more than 31 days of application submittion. Point Zero

2nd Reason.
Business activity. Case worker said you are failed to provide Current appointment report as an active director in company not more than 3 months of application.
Actually my accountant gave me one letter from Company House. He downloaded one letter from company house in People option. That page says i am director since established. Current appointment report is 4 pages which i have got from company house today.

Now i need advice from Gurus. Do you think AR is suitable?
if it is not suitable then what documents do i need to submit in new application? do i need to prepare whole documents with application or just new application with Bank statement with maintenance fund and current appointment report?

Thanks.

Momi
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Momi » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:32 pm

This is exactly what I was thinking. You actually confused the case working.
Are you sure that you submitted the current appointment report.
Ask you accountant and if you are damn sure that current appointment report has been submitted then there are good chances that you will get the visa on AR.
Mention in you AR that you have submitted maintenance bank statement separately.

omoba911
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by omoba911 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:45 pm

please confirm if you submitted a current appointment report which shows you as an active directors dated as per the guidelines.

The reason I ask is, if you did not submit this document as stated, then you should submit a new applications. If you did then AR is probably your option.

You really need to confirm so the gurus and other can help

Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:17 pm

Accountant took one page from Company house which shows i am director since established. Current appointment Report is 4 pages. I am 100% we missed it and did not send.
Now i am re applying.
HO has all documents. what new documents do we need to submit with new applications? How many days have i now for Re Application? Applications were decided on 7 August and we got today.

My friend told me just submit current appointent report and bank statement of maintenance with new applications as HO has all other documents. HO has awarded you 60 points on Investment, Job Creation, English Language and registered as a Director within the 6 months of leave granted.

Seniors your advice is desperately require for new applications. (New Applications will be with 2 dependants).

Thanks.

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marcnath
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by marcnath » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:23 pm

Dea guy wrote:consultant did not say anything just said let me read policy. When i submitted application maintenance funds were more than 3 months. it was more than 100 days.
Second I send them Current appointment report, Filling History report, Directorship Letter from Company house as i am director since it was established.
They did not consider current appointment report.
They have considered Business account as a maintenance fund account. from January 2017 to April 2017.
I provided them my saving account from February 2017 to 8 June 2017.
they did not award point on business activity and maintenance fund.
Ok. In this case you should get through on your AR.

This is one of the problems about sending extra documents - the CW mixed up the documents looking at your business statements for your maintenance funds.

So, looks like an error by the CW but you have to now take it through the AR process.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

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marcnath
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by marcnath » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:34 pm

Dea guy wrote:Accountant took one page from Company house which shows i am director since established. Current appointment Report is 4 pages. I am 100% we missed it and did not send.
Now i am re applying.
HO has all documents. what new documents do we need to submit with new applications? How many days have i now for Re Application? Applications were decided on 7 August and we got today.

My friend told me just submit current appointent report and bank statement of maintenance with new applications as HO has all other documents. HO has awarded you 60 points on Investment, Job Creation, English Language and registered as a Director within the 6 months of leave granted.

Seniors your advice is desperately require for new applications. (New Applications will be with 2 dependants).

Thanks.
Sorry, I did not see this before I replied earlier.

Additional documents submitted with AR will not be considered.

It looks like the bank statements were submitted earlier, so that should be ok for AR.

But if you have not submitted the CAR, then yes you need to reapply.

You need to submit all the documents needed all over again - treat it as though it was your first application.

Only where originals are needed, you can refer to your existing documents that are still with HO. But you should still submit copies.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:07 pm

marcnath wrote:
Dea guy wrote:Accountant took one page from Company house which shows i am director since established. Current appointment Report is 4 pages. I am 100% we missed it and did not send.
Now i am re applying.
HO has all documents. what new documents do we need to submit with new applications? How many days have i now for Re Application? Applications were decided on 7 August and we got today.

My friend told me just submit current appointent report and bank statement of maintenance with new applications as HO has all other documents. HO has awarded you 60 points on Investment, Job Creation, English Language and registered as a Director within the 6 months of leave granted.

Seniors your advice is desperately require for new applications. (New Applications will be with 2 dependants).

Thanks.
Sorry, I did not see this before I replied earlier.

Additional documents submitted with AR will not be considered.

It looks like the bank statements were submitted earlier, so that should be ok for AR.

But if you have not submitted the CAR, then yes you need to reapply.

You need to submit all the documents needed all over again - treat it as though it was your first application.

Only where originals are needed, you can refer to your existing documents that are still with HO. But you should still submit copies.
Do you think it is good to go in AR under the Paraghraph 245AA of immigration Rules. It is about to ask any document which can help Case Worker in making his/her decision???
It is about flexibility law of immigration.
Accountant give me company house one page as a current appointment report which shows "xxxxxx" is active director.

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marcnath
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by marcnath » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:25 pm

You keep mentioning "Company house one page". Are you sure it is one page of the CAR ?
You got points for registering within 6 months - what was the evidence you used ?
If it was one page of CAR then yes, you should go for AR using 245AA.
You can then add the full CAR to support that.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:45 pm

[/img]
marcnath wrote:You keep mentioning "Company house one page". Are you sure it is one page of the CAR ?
You got points for registering within 6 months - what was the evidence you used ?
If it was one page of CAR then yes, you should go for AR using 245AA.
You can then add the full CAR to support that.
Comapny House Page mean when you give company name in company house website for company search then a page opens which gives you 3 options
1. Overview
2. Filling History
3. People.
when you click on People option. A new page opens which tells who is currently active director and any secretary of company.
Account gave me this page from company house website which tells that i am ACTIVE Director of 'XYZ' Company. I also gave latest final account and submission of accounts to company house.
I think you got the point which i want to tell.

That was the single page from company house website which shows i am currently active director. Now please tell me that should i go for AR???
I tried to upload her that page but could not do because i do not know how to upload file here.
See Below page which we send as a CAR. Accountant gave it to me.

I HAVE EDITED IT.


5/5/2017 ''XXXXX'' LIMITED ­ Officers (free information from Companies House)
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ./officers 1/1
Companies House 
BETA This is a trial service — your feedback (https://www.research.net/r/chbeta) will help us to improve it. Search for companies or officers ''XXXXXXX'' LIMITED Company number .........
Officers Persons with significant control (https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... nt­control) Filter officers

Current officers Apply filter 2 current officers
ABC
Correspondence address   7RG Role Active 
Secretary Appointed on  25 

XYZ
Correspondence address 
Role Active  Director Date of birth  .......... Appointed on  25......
  Nationality  Pakistani
Country of residence  United Kingdom Occupation  Energy Consultancy And Assessment
Last edited by Dea guy on Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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marcnath
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by marcnath » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:56 pm

Dea guy wrote:
marcnath wrote:You keep mentioning "Company house one page". Are you sure it is one page of the CAR ?
You got points for registering within 6 months - what was the evidence you used ?
If it was one page of CAR then yes, you should go for AR using 245AA.
You can then add the full CAR to support that.
Comapny House Page mean when you give company name in company house website for company search then a page opens which gives you 3 options
1. Overview
2. Filling History
3. People.
when you click on People option. A new page opens which tells who is currently active director and any secretary of company.
Account gave me this page from company house website which tells that i am ACTIVE Director of 'XYZ' Company. I also gave latest final account and submission of accounts to company house.
I think you got the point which i want to tell.

That was the single page from company house website which shows i am currently active director. Now please tell me that should i go for AR???
I tried to upload her that page but could not do because i do not know how to upload file here.
Yes. I understand.
The requirement is specific that you need CAR, so that won't work.
You got points for registering within 6 months - what was the evidence you used ? That also needs CAR.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:10 pm

I gave them Directorship letter from company house which i got by post from company house. I got it end of May 2017. Do you think i should go AR under the Paraghraph 245AA of immigration rules. Case worker said he did not use flexibility law of Paraghraph 245AA of immigration rules. Do you think i should go in AR??

Below is my documents list.
1- Passport
2- 2 photos
3- visa Application
4- 90 days maintenance Funds
5- Personal Bank state as a proof of transection into company account
6- Business account as a proof of investment from personal account
7- One Year Business Statement
8- Incom Invoices
9- Accounts Filling History
10- Current Appointment Report (Single Page from company house website)
11- Filling History Page of Company
12- Three Years Accounts (They must Show Director and accountant name, Date of Accounts Produce and How much has been invested).
13- Registration of Corporate Tax
14- Copy of CT41G/Complete Tax Return
15- Letter from Company House of Directorship
16- Un audit Reports of Three Years Accounts.
17- Accountant Letter Which Covers The Job Creation and Company.
18- payslips
19- RTI/Paye
20- P60/P45
21- Employees Hours Proof
22- Employees Passport Copy
23- Employees Proof of Address
24- Company Website
25- Company Leaflet
26- Company Visiting Card
27- NI Class 2 Payment Proof
28- Tax Payment Proof
29- UK degree
30- Professional Certificates
31- Accreditation Certificate
32- Business Insurance

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marcnath
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by marcnath » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:43 pm

You can go for AR and try. Highly likely to get rejected but you can get a fresh application ready in the meantime. If you don't need to travel the delay should not matter.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:45 am

marcnath wrote:You can go for AR and try. Highly likely to get rejected but you can get a fresh application ready in the meantime. If you don't need to travel the delay should not matter.
How long will be the AR if i go in AR? MY solicitor send me an email. According to him CW has not seen actual maintenance fund statement nor the company house report which shows i am active director. date was on report 5/5/2017.

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marcnath
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by marcnath » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:29 am

Dea guy wrote:
marcnath wrote:You can go for AR and try. Highly likely to get rejected but you can get a fresh application ready in the meantime. If you don't need to travel the delay should not matter.
How long will be the AR if i go in AR? MY solicitor send me an email. According to him CW has not seen actual maintenance fund statement nor the company house report which shows i am active director. date was on report 5/5/2017.
Any idea how he knows what the CW saw and did not see ?

Unfortunately, the immigration rules (46-SD(g)(ii)) set out two things clearly that were not met:
1. CAR
2. Dated no earlier than 3 months.

And the challenge with the printout of a web page is that it is not the CAR and the date criteria is also not met.
So, in an AR, even if it can be proved the CW has not seen it, it will get sent back and most likely rejected again.

But your solicitor is the professional and this is just my unprofessional advice, so it is your call.

Tough to say how long an AR can go on - there have been posts here where it has taken months
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:04 am

marcnath wrote:
Dea guy wrote:
marcnath wrote:You can go for AR and try. Highly likely to get rejected but you can get a fresh application ready in the meantime. If you don't need to travel the delay should not matter.
How long will be the AR if i go in AR? MY solicitor send me an email. According to him CW has not seen actual maintenance fund statement nor the company house report which shows i am active director. date was on report 5/5/2017.
Any idea how he knows what the CW saw and did not see ?

Unfortunately, the immigration rules (46-SD(g)(ii)) set out two things clearly that were not met:
1. CAR
2. Dated no earlier than 3 months.

And the challenge with the printout of a web page is that it is not the CAR and the date criteria is also not met.
So, in an AR, even if it can be proved the CW has not seen it, it will get sent back and most likely rejected again.

But your solicitor is the professional and this is just my unprofessional advice, so it is your call.

Tough to say how long an AR can go on - there have been posts here where it has taken months
Marcnath Thanks a lot for helping me with technical points.
I am going to Re apply. Just two questions Please respond them as well. It will help me and other readers as well.

If maintenance fund was accepted.
could Case Worker have requested additional information ''CAR'' before making decision under Paragraph 245AA of the immigration rules ????
and other question is about case worker statement

"In making the decision to refuse your application. I have considered whether evidential flexibility applies as per set in paragraph 245AA of immigration rules.
Additional information will not be requested where that information would not change the decision. As your application has failed to meet the requirements of the immigration rules for the reasons explained above. As additional information would not change the decision. I have not requested the additional information in relation to your application."

For example if I go in AR and maintenance fund is proved as i am claiming. Will he request the additional information of CAR to overturn his decision. I am asking according to his above statement.

Thanks a lot again. God bless you.

Regards,

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marcnath
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by marcnath » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:38 am

Dea guy wrote:
Marcnath Thanks a lot for helping me with technical points.
I am going to Re apply. Just two questions Please respond them as well. It will help me and other readers as well.

If maintenance fund was accepted.
could Case Worker have requested additional information ''CAR'' before making decision under Paragraph 245AA of the immigration rules ????
and other question is about case worker statement

"In making the decision to refuse your application. I have considered whether evidential flexibility applies as per set in paragraph 245AA of immigration rules.
Additional information will not be requested where that information would not change the decision. As your application has failed to meet the requirements of the immigration rules for the reasons explained above. As additional information would not change the decision. I have not requested the additional information in relation to your application."

For example if I go in AR and maintenance fund is proved as i am claiming. Will he request the additional information of CAR to overturn his decision. I am asking according to his above statement.

Thanks a lot again. God bless you.

Regards,
I am no expert on AR, but I have often seen in these forums that sometimes AR decision is to send it back to HO for reconsideration.
And yes, if the AR concludes the maintenance fund was a clear CW mistake, they could just send it back - which would be a reconsideration of the whole application again. So, yes, the CW could use evidential flexibility.
But, in my opinion, unlikely as 245AA(b) starts with If the applicant has submitted the specified documents and you have not submitted the specified document (CAR).
On the other hand, I think the CW has a lot more flexibility and could just conclude that you did submit the document but it was in the wrong format. And could use 245AA to ask for CAR.
Reapplying is a more certain way and likely quicker. But you will be an overstayer between your new application and decision - so, for example, your dependant will lose the right to work.
AR will take longer but there is a chance for you to be successful and if so, you will save considerable money. But you may need to reapply anyway.
Either way, you will probably get your extension, so the end result is likely to be the same.
If I was in your shoes, I would probably go for reapplication - but that is because my business requires me to travel and the longer period of uncertainty would me more stressful for my wife. If those two were not there, I would try AR.
So, boils down to your personal decision.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:08 am

Thanks Marcnath for your help.
I have mind of new Application but will see what solicitor has mind.
Yes one thing is 100% clear that maintenance was vivid mistake of Case Worker. I send my saving account statement for maintenance. I also send one year Business statement. The maintenance which Case worker has considered and mentioned account number that is business statement. Business statement can not be considered maintenance fund statement.
Yes in CAR metter. We did not submit. We send three years filling history documents and one document from company house website which shows i am director. Date is on this document.
We Send CAR information in two different documents.
We also send company house document which shows i company is in corporate and i am active director.
Again thanks Marcnath for really great help.

Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:52 pm

AR has been submitted by my solicitor. He believes that Refusal needs to be addressed properly as we have provided 98 Days maintenance statement which is saving account. CW has considered Business statement as a maintenance fund.
Second we provided Filling history of three years and one company house letter which shows me as an active director of my company. It was taken 5 May 2017 from company. We did not provide CAR with application because filling history and company house document was submitted as an actively engaged in business.

Solicitor's points in AR are below.

''The first basis of the refusal is that it is said that the applicant had not demonstrated that he is still actively trading. This decision was based on consideration of one document from Companies House. In fact, the applicant had submitted 2 documents from Companies House, the second of which has not been considered by the decision maker. This document, dated 5th May 2017, clearly states that the applicant is currently a director of ........COMPANY, company Number......, and had been appointed a director on 23 April 201.
The decision maker has omitted to consider this document. It is submitted that 15 points ought to have been awarded for the applicant being engaged in business activity at the time of the application.
Secondly, the application was refused on The basis that it is said that the maintenance criteria had not been met for the himself and his two dependents. The decision maker referred to Barclays Bank statements for the account ending ABCD.
In fact, the applicant had submitted, in addition, Barclays Everday Saver accounts, ending XYZ...., which from 27th February 2017, had funds in excess of the £2835 required to cover the principal applicant plus 2 dependents.
The decision maker has failed to have regard to this bank account. It is therefore submitted that 10 points ought to have been awarded for maintenance.
In the alternative, it is submitted that, if either of these documents, or series of documents were deficient, then pursuant to paragraph 245AA, the decision maker had discretion to request further documentation to perfect the application.

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marcnath
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by marcnath » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:00 pm

Looks good.

All the best.
My comments are in no way meant to be advisory. I have no professional knowledge of immigration. These are based on my own experience, convictions and personal interpretation of publicly available information.

Dea guy
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Re: visa Refusal

Post by Dea guy » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:12 pm

I was reading Appendix A of Immigration Rules. I read paragraph and want to double check the right documents.

''If the applicant was a director of a new or existing company or member of a new or existing limited liability partnership, he must provide a printout from Companies House of the company’s filing history page and of the applicant’s personal appointments history, showing the date of his appointment as a director of that company or member of that limited liability partnership, which must be no more than 8 months after the specified date in the relevant table.''

According to above paragraph
Applicant needs Three Years Filling History of Company and Current appointment Report??
Does CAR cover the Personal Appointment History of Applicant (As a Director)???
Thanks.

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