Visa Refused VO and Market Research

Amnaamna · Post by **Amnaamna** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:00 pm

Dear Board members,

My visa refused on the basis of interview and under section 245 balance of probabilities the applicant is not genuinely engaged in business activity.

Main refusal points.

1-No Market Research
2-Business Investment Funds not invested in 10 installments from personal account that lead home office my business in no Genuine.
3- Virtual office not accepted as trading office. I provided the agreement of VO but case worker refused me by saying that business has not physical trading where employee/staff/visitors can sit.
5-They were unable to identify my assets and investment in business as VO office is not my business property. No Furniture, No space of employee, No computers, No business sign board information board. VO cant have my own stationary and office record. No space found for office filings. (This is very big paragraph of refusal).
4- Employee not present/available during the time of interview.

I have applied Feb-2017
Interview Nov-17
All investment made from my personal to business account
Bank statement both submitted
Agreement with vo supplied and told during interview I book this office for my clients meeting
Payment invoice to VO also supplied
But Home office not satisfied with all these documents. I told my employees work at client premises. We do once a week meeting in VO office and showed invoices of all the bookings.

Saibabashir123 · Post by **Saibabashir123** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:06 pm

Very sorry to hear your refusal
I don’t know how the case workers are dealing the files
There were many people who got their visa approved with virtual office
There were many who got approved with the interviews held at home without any employees during the interview
Not sure what they are expecting

seasky · Post by **seasky** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:21 pm

1. I don't understand "Business Investment Funds not invested in 10 instalments from personal account that lead home office my business in no Genuine." I don't understand what you mean here. They were or were not invested in 10 instalments?

2. What route are you 50/200 and previous visa history

3. You must share much much more on your business if you want any proper help on genuineness.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:27 pm

Sorry to hear about this and it is very difficult to comment without detailed information.
I personally believe neither Market Research or VO are good indicators about genuineness.
But there were a couple of things in your post that caught my attention.

Amnaamna wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:00 pm
2-Business Investment Funds not invested in 10 installments from personal account that lead home office my business in no Genuine.

What does this mean ?

Amnaamna wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:00 pm
5-They were unable to identify my assets and investment in business as VO office is not my business property. No Furniture, No space of employee, No computers, No business sign board information board. VO cant have my own stationary and office record. No space found for office filings. (This is very big paragraph of refusal).

What assets are these ? If you did buy office furniture when you do not have an office, that would be of concern. But other like computers, etc should not be an issue.

What kind of business are you in ?

Obviously, you should go for an AR and try to counteract the points.

Rejection based on genuineness seem to be getting a little more frequent, which is unfortunate. It seems to be an easy thing for HO to use when they suspect deception - as proving deception needs much more work and evidence.

tarun_shreeji · Post by **tarun_shreeji** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:42 pm

Amnaamna wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:00 pm
Dear Board members,

My visa refused on the basis of interview and under section 245 balance of probabilities the applicant is not genuinely engaged in business activity.

Main refusal points.

1-No Market Research
2-Business Investment Funds not invested in 10 installments from personal account that lead home office my business in no Genuine.
3- Virtual office not accepted as trading office. I provided the agreement of VO but case worker refused me by saying that business has not physical trading where employee/staff/visitors can sit.
5-They were unable to identify my assets and investment in business as VO office is not my business property. No Furniture, No space of employee, No computers, No business sign board information board. VO cant have my own stationary and office record. No space found for office filings. (This is very big paragraph of refusal).
4- Employee not present/available during the time of interview.

I have applied Feb-2017
Interview Nov-17
All investment made from my personal to business account
Bank statement both submitted
Agreement with vo supplied and told during interview I book this office for my clients meeting
Payment invoice to VO also supplied
But Home office not satisfied with all these documents. I told my employees work at client premises. We do once a week meeting in VO office and showed invoices of all the bookings.

can you please share more details as like IHS refund date and refusal date.

seasky · Post by **seasky** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:48 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:27 pm

Rejection based on genuineness seem to be getting a little more frequent, which is unfortunate.

I do not think it is unfortunate. We see many in-genuine entrepreneurs on this forum.

When there is an entrepreneurial team and one leaves the business as soon as gets alternate ILR*
When people fire employees during extension because, you don't get points for that period
When one asks "i have ILR now can I leave my business and get a job?"
And many more cases of high probability in-genuineness

All of these ingenuine entrepreneurs ruin it for the rest of us, all these delays and nitpicking on issues that don't matter and limited application of evidential flexibility are a lot the fault of the in-genuine.

T1e was not meant to be the route for all those "that don't have another visa route"

This does not in any way mean the OP in this specific case is ingenuine and if she/he furnish more details we can try and help her/him (though clearly with one employee not likely a "high flying" business, but that is not a mandatory attribute for T1e)

(* there are plenty of cases were the team member stays along in the business, that is something else)

kaps84 · Post by **kaps84** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:25 pm

Why not type in all the letter or post the screenshot wit all the sensitive data removed ?

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:33 pm

tarun_shreeji wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:42 pm

can you please share more details as like IHS refund date and refusal date.

I really wish people would stop asking members such questions when I can't see what it does to help the OP.

While I can understand your anxiety, every single T1E case is different, so really there is nothing this additional information will help in determining your own case. It just adds a distraction to the OP.

sm12 · Post by **sm12** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:00 pm

Very sorry to hear about this.
What is the nature of your business?
Could you explain your first point more clearly?
As for VO- Someone on here was interviewed and succeeded despite a VO, so perhaps the nature of the business affects that.

mohsensari · Post by **mohsensari** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:16 pm

Just VO or market research couldn’t be reasone of refusal. It very depends to Nature of the business. (You can’t have a Resturant business with VO.)

Amnaamna · Post by **Amnaamna** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Dear Members,

Thanks for your reply.

It was typo error.

1-Investment

Home office objected why you have invested the money in 10 Installments? that lead them decide i am not Genuine.

I transferred investment funds from my personal account in 10 different transaction in 18 months.
I replied to the interviewer my business was generating revenue as that is why i invested money according to my business plan whenever my business needs it.

Home office objected as you have invested 50k in 10 Installments and your were unable to satisfied why you have made the investment in 10 different installments.

Amnaamna · Post by **Amnaamna** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:49 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:27 pm
Sorry to hear about this and it is very difficult to comment without detailed information.
I personally believe neither Market Research or VO are good indicators about genuineness.
But there were a couple of things in your post that caught my attention.

Amnaamna wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:00 pm
2-Business Investment Funds not invested in 10 installments from personal account that lead home office my business in no Genuine.
What does this mean ?

Amnaamna wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:00 pm
5-They were unable to identify my assets and investment in business as VO office is not my business property. No Furniture, No space of employee, No computers, No business sign board information board. VO cant have my own stationary and office record. No space found for office filings. (This is very big paragraph of refusal).
What assets are these ? If you did buy office furniture when you do not have an office, that would be of concern. But other like computers, etc should not be an issue.

What kind of business are you in ?

Obviously, you should go for an AR and try to counteract the points.

Rejection based on genuineness seem to be getting a little more frequent, which is unfortunate. It seems to be an easy thing for HO to use when they suspect deception - as proving deception needs much more work and evidence.

Dear Marc,

I actually make investment of more than 50k inot my business account in 10 transaction. i have also attached the separate sheet of all transaction with dates and bank statement reference. The home office was not satisfied and declare me non genuine entrepreneur on the basis of this investment.

I have import & Export Business and Juices, Energy drinks, and dentist medicine from abroad. I just have three full time employees one is driver who deliver my goods to the customers, One is customer service officer who took order and payment from the clients mostly both of them work together. He also help in loading and unloading to the driver. My 3rd employees is marketing officer who mostly work with me. We dont work in office as we dont need the office that is why i used the VO.
I have store room whorehouse in my house. I have told this to the interviewer as well. I kept all my stock at home. I owned my own property. No rental agreement require to use home back gardens or room for storage my stock.

Momi · Post by **Momi** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:55 pm

Amnaamna wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:40 pm
Dear Members,

Thanks for your reply.

It was typo error.

1-Investment

Home office objected why you have invested the money in 10 Installments? that lead them decide i am not Genuine.

I transferred investment funds from my personal account in 10 different transaction in 18 months.
I replied to the interviewer my business was generating revenue as that is why i invested money according to my business plan whenever my business needs it.

Home office objected as you have invested 50k in 10 Installments and your were unable to satisfied why you have made the investment in 10 different installments.

It's the funniest part of this refusal.
They gave 3 years to invest the money, so its applicants choice how they invest it.
When you completing 10 years?

seasky · Post by **seasky** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:04 pm

Your story seems genuine to me. I would add photos of your warehouse (don't spell it like you did above

)

Your driver and his van full of stuff etc to your AR

Amnaamna · Post by **Amnaamna** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:12 pm

Funny thing is that as my business is improt and export. My VAT is more than £30k in three years, Corporation tax is more thank £15k in four years.

I got license to import dentist medicine from abroad

20 Uk base grocery store are full time clients

Turn over more than 300K last years

1-use my owned home as a whorehouse (Stock room) Back gardens shed and one large room.
2- three years yellow storage agreements with payment invoice also provided.
3- 10 UK base private dentist are my clients.

all these information supplied during interview.

hina_pirzada · Post by **hina_pirzada** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:19 pm

Hi sorry to hear about your refusal. Can you kindly reply the following questions

1. Did you attend interview at the time of initial application?

2. What was your source of investment? Overseas or UK base.

3. Did you apply ur extension urself or via solicitor?

Amnaamna · Post by **Amnaamna** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:20 pm

seasky wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:04 pm
Your story seems genuine to me. I would add photos of your warehouse (don't spell it like you did above )

Your driver and his van full of stuff etc to your AR

how can i provide this to home-office? there is no attachment option online For AR.?
My website already include the video and all these pictures. My Vans, Staff with some of my clients. They can check this from there before refusing my application

Amnaamna · Post by **Amnaamna** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:23 pm

hina_pirzada wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:19 pm
Hi sorry to hear about your refusal. Can you kindly reply the following questions

1. Did you attend interview at the time of initial application?

No got approved in 3 months

2. What was your source of investment? Overseas or UK base.

UK my own funds in our own account personal savings (Husband & Wife) we were doing business since 2012.

3. Did you apply ur extension urself or via solicitor?

Myself both application (Initial and extension) no problem with initial application

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:59 pm

Whorehouse (as you spelt it) is where you go for prostitutes.

Warehouse (the correct way to spell it) is for storage of goods. However, a storeroom is NOT a 'warehouse'!!

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:24 pm

seasky wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:48 pm

marcnath wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:27 pm

Rejection based on genuineness seem to be getting a little more frequent, which is unfortunate.
I do not think it is unfortunate. We see many in-genuine entrepreneurs on this forum.

When there is an entrepreneurial team and one leaves the business as soon as gets alternate ILR*
When people fire employees during extension because, you don't get points for that period
When one asks "i have ILR now can I leave my business and get a job?"
And many more cases of high probability in-genuineness

All of these ingenuine entrepreneurs ruin it for the rest of us, all these delays and nitpicking on issues that don't matter and limited application of evidential flexibility are a lot the fault of the in-genuine.

T1e was not meant to be the route for all those "that don't have another visa route"

This does not in any way mean the OP in this specific case is ingenuine and if she/he furnish more details we can try and help her/him (though clearly with one employee not likely a "high flying" business, but that is not a mandatory attribute for T1e)

(* there are plenty of cases were the team member stays along in the business, that is something else)

I have deliberately decided not to respond to many of your posts even if I find quite a few of them condescending at the minimum. You are entitled to your opinion, which is fine. But it is clear that you somehow consider yourself superior and have your own definition of what an entrepreneur should be or what business they should be doing and make your comments without bothering to understand a full picture.

You now decided to comment on my post without reading the whole paragraph. HO (as this case seems to show) is not qualified to assess genuineness (in my opinion). The cases that have been rejected on this forum has almost always seem to point to them to suspect fraud. But, instead of taking the effort to dig into that, they seem to be using Genuineness as an easy reason. And that was the point of my overall paragraph if you had read the full thing.

marcnath · Post by **marcnath** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:34 pm

Amnaamna wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:49 pm

Dear Marc,

I actually make investment of more than 50k inot my business account in 10 transaction. i have also attached the separate sheet of all transaction with dates and bank statement reference. The home office was not satisfied and declare me non genuine entrepreneur on the basis of this investment.

I have import & Export Business and Juices, Energy drinks, and dentist medicine from abroad. I just have three full time employees one is driver who deliver my goods to the customers, One is customer service officer who took order and payment from the clients mostly both of them work together. He also help in loading and unloading to the driver. My 3rd employees is marketing officer who mostly work with me. We dont work in office as we dont need the office that is why i used the VO.
I have store room whorehouse in my house. I have told this to the interviewer as well. I kept all my stock at home. I owned my own property. No rental agreement require to use home back gardens or room for storage my stock.

On the face of it, I would believe the decision is wrong. At least based on the reasons the case worker has pointed out. Especially when you have had a consistent revenue and taxes over the past three years, I really can't understand this.

Get your explanations out properly in your AR. There has been an increased rejection based on genuineness in the recent times. Those who have been refused have gone for AR but we haven't seen anyone post the outcomes of those AR yet (maybe they haven't been decided). We will have to see how HO is going to defend what seems to be misplaced decision.

There may be other problems with your application. For example, if you have not maintained access to your 50K throughout until it was invested. But those are not the reason stated in the decision so it should not be of concern right now.

I think you have a good chance with your AR. So, good luck with that.

Aabdulwaheed · Post by **Aabdulwaheed** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:38 pm

[quote=CR001 post_id=1604225 time=1519930787 user_id=70994]
Whorehouse (as you spelt it) is where you go for prostitutes.

Warehouse (the correct way to spell it) is for storage of goods. However, a storeroom is NOT a 'warehouse'!!
[/quote]

He is not here for English ilets test. Spelling mistake is very common. You better advice him on his rejection. If not then stop the nonsense. This forum is to help people I believe

Aabdulwaheed · Post by **Aabdulwaheed** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:43 pm

[quote=Amnaamna post_id=1604211 time=1519928435 user_id=190062]
[quote=seasky post_id=1604199 time=1519927443 user_id=66768]
Your story seems genuine to me. I would add photos of your warehouse (don't spell it like you did above

)

Your driver and his van full of stuff etc to your AR
[/quote]

how can i provide this to home-office? there is no attachment option online For AR.?
My website already include the video and all these pictures. My Vans, Staff with some of my clients. They can check this from there before refusing my application
[/quote]

You can add one line paragraph at the end of the AR and write to Them you have send the supporting documents to them. Please don’t forget to write the refrence number of the royal mail post. When you send supporting documents please also attach your refusal letter copy as well. This will help identify your case file to HO. Good luck

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:45 pm

Aabdulwaheed wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:38 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:59 pm
Whorehouse (as you spelt it) is where you go for prostitutes.

Warehouse (the correct way to spell it) is for storage of goods. However, a storeroom is NOT a 'warehouse'!!
He is not here for English ilets test. Spelling mistake is very common. You better advice him on his rejection. If not then stop the nonsense. This forum is to help people I believe

Merely directing the OP to the correct spelling as some people could be offended by the word 'whorehouse' which is distasteful and vulgar and others might think they are funny and start stupid comments.

Likewise, if YOU have nothing to contribute, then suggest not post either and don't threaten me with the 'you better advice him on his rejection' demanding statement.

Amnaamna · Post by **Amnaamna** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:04 pm

Dear CR001, sorry if I offended you by my mistakes it is typo error using my phone. But i know where you coming from and what you mean. Aabdul thanks for you suggestion of sending supporting documents.
When i applied extension i had attached photos of my wesite page where my staff was working, dealing with clients orders and drlivering goods for my business.
I have two van on lease on my business name with company name written on them. These photos also send with lease documents of my Vans.
Should i send them again or just refer this when write my AR.

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Visa Refused VO and Market Research

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