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Dependent EC - evidence of subsisting relationship

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geriatrix
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Dependent EC - evidence of subsisting relationship

Post by geriatrix » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:52 pm

Out of curiosity:
8. Communication prove (emails + telephone bill)
I am aware of the BHC in Pakistan dictates (requests) attested copies of main applicant's passport and that TB tests are required if applying for 6 months+ visa but am interested in knowing if the above are actually required for Tier 1 (General) dependent EC submitted in Pakistan and/or in other countries?

Thanks in advance.


regards
Last edited by geriatrix on Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:42 am, edited 5 times in total.

aruni4470
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Re: I need assistance for my partner visa

Post by aruni4470 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:04 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Out of curiosity:
furqansiddiqui wrote:8. Communication prove (emails + telephone bill)
I am aware of the BHC in Pakistan dictates (requests) attested copies of main applicant's passport and that TB tests are required if applying for 8months+ visa but am interested in knowing if the above are actually required for Tier 1 (General) dependent EC submitted in Pakistan and/or in other countries?

Thanks in advance.


regards
Maybe they are being a little more cautious after reading experiences like these http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... t+rejected

geriatrix
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Post by geriatrix » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:33 pm

I would then question as to why this is not a standard requirement for all dependent EC applications .... across the table.

Why are a large number of applications granted without the need for any proof as these (as per policy guidance, marriage certificate is only required) but a few rejected for lack of such evidence(s)?
Immigration rule 319C(d) wrote:The marriage or civil partnership, or relationship similar to marriage or civil partnership, must be subsisting at the time the application is made.
is relevant for all PBS dependent applicants but why is this applied selectively by local BHCs? In some cases marriage certificate is proof enough to prove subsistance of marriage and in some cases it is not? :?


regards

aruni4470
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Post by aruni4470 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:04 pm

sushdmehta wrote:I would then question as to why this is not a standard requirement for all dependent EC applications .... across the table.

Why are a large number of applications granted without the need for any proof as these (as per policy guidance, marriage certificate is only required) but a few rejected for lack of such evidence(s)?
Immigration rule 319C(d) wrote:The marriage or civil partnership, or relationship similar to marriage or civil partnership, must be subsisting at the time the application is made.
is relevant for all PBS dependent applicants but why is this applied selectively by local BHCs? In some cases marriage certificate is proof enough to prove subsistance of marriage and in some cases it is not? :?


regards
I agree with you.. and most of us here would. But unfortunately, nobody has an answer to..... :(

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Post by geriatrix » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:44 pm

Given the issue of forced marriages in Indian subcontinent, I guess ECOs are more cautious when it comes to dependent applications where the marriage has taken place in recent months preceding the application. And perhaps that is where applications are rejected when evidence of subsisting relationship, in addition to those mentioned in policy guidance, is not submitted in support of the EC application.

regards

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Post by aruni4470 » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:47 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Given the issue of forced marriages in Indian subcontinent, I guess ECOs are more cautious when it comes to dependent applications where the marriage has taken place in recent months preceding the application. And perhaps that is where applications are rejected when evidence of subsisting relationship, in addition to those mentioned in policy guidance, is not submitted in support of the EC application.

regards
In addition to fake marriages..

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Post by geriatrix » Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:10 pm

Having read some posts on the issue, the following appear to be more likely scenarios that may raise suspicion in absence of (adequate) evidence presented to ECO:

1. Recent marriage. Spouse leaves for UK immediately / soon after marriage and dependent application is made after a gap.
2. Migrant travels to home country to get married and returns to UK shortly after. The dependent applies later.

In the scenario where people have been married for some (or long time) before migrant applies for Tier 1 (application form reflects married status), the ECO may be less suspicious (perhaps) than in the scenarios above.


All IMHO ....


regards

destiniation_london
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Post by destiniation_london » Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:58 pm

sushdmehta wrote:Having read some posts on the issue, the following appear to be more likely scenarios that may raise suspicion in absence of (adequate) evidence presented to ECO:

1. Recent marriage. Spouse leaves for UK immediately / soon after marriage and dependent application is made after a gap.
2. Migrant travels to home country to get married and returns to UK shortly after. The dependent applies later.

In the scenario where people have been married for some (or long time) before migrant applies for Tier 1 (application form reflects married status), the ECO may be less suspicious (perhaps) than in the scenarios above.


All IMHO ....


regards
But that's what will always happen for applicants who are already in UK on Tier 1 and then get married in their home country...
As they must be working in UK and after marriage they definitely would have to leave for UK to resume their work and their wife would later be applying for dependant visa....and the most proofs that you can submit is marriage certificate (they ought to respect this) , wedding photos , card

what else can you submit to prove you genuinely married the one making dependant application....one option could be to invite British consulate to your wedding ... :D

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Post by geriatrix » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:13 pm

destination_london, it seems that in your eagerness to post you have missed realizing the difference between evidence of wedding / marriage and evidence of a (marital) relationship subsisting. Being married is not always a proof subsisting relationship between two individuals (e.g. - forced / sham marriage). Marriage certificate, wedding invitations or wedding photographs do not help ECO in determining whether the marital relationship is genuine or not - they only help prove that two individuals are married!

The policy guidance (which is not the law, as per a recent judgement) doesn't talk of evidence to prove subsisting relationship as a mandatory requirement for Tier 1 dependents but the immigration rules clearly define this as a mandatory requirement for EC as dependent of Tier 1 migrant. And the question in discussion is why is this (requirement) being applied selectively?


regards
Last edited by geriatrix on Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

destiniation_london
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Post by destiniation_london » Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:23 pm

sushdmehta wrote:destination_london, it seems that in your eagerness to post you have missed realizing the difference between evidence of wedding / marriage and evidence of a (marital) relationship subsisting. Being married is not always a proof subsisting relationship between two individuals (e.g. - forced / sham marriage). Marriage certificate, wedding invitations or wedding photographs do not help ECO in determining whether the marital relationship is genuine or not - they only help prove that two individuals are married!

The policy guidance (which is not the law, as per a recent judgement) doesn't talk of evidence to prove subsisting relationship as a mandatory requirement for Tier 1 dependents but the immigration rules clearly define this as a mandatory requirement for EC as dependent of Tier 1 (dependent).


regards
But, then can you suggest what could be evidence of relationship subsisting for the couple who just recently got married ...and wife wishes to join her husband in UK

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Post by vini11 » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:47 pm

destiniation_london wrote:
sushdmehta wrote:
The policy guidance (which is not the law, as per a recent judgement) doesn't talk of evidence to prove subsisting relationship as a mandatory requirement for Tier 1 dependents but the immigration rules clearly define this as a mandatory requirement for EC as dependent of Tier 1 (dependent).


regards
But, then can you suggest what could be evidence of relationship subsisting for the couple who just recently got married ...and wife wishes to join her husband in UK
You can invest some amount in Fixed deposit & nominate your spouse,I did the same thing,submitted marriage photos,wedding card & the fixed deposit certificate mentioning my wife as my nominee.

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Post by destiniation_london » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:50 pm

vini11 wrote:
destiniation_london wrote:
sushdmehta wrote:
The policy guidance (which is not the law, as per a recent judgement) doesn't talk of evidence to prove subsisting relationship as a mandatory requirement for Tier 1 dependents but the immigration rules clearly define this as a mandatory requirement for EC as dependent of Tier 1 (dependent).


regards
But, then can you suggest what could be evidence of relationship subsisting for the couple who just recently got married ...and wife wishes to join her husband in UK
You can invest some amount in Fixed deposit & nominate your spouse,I did the same thing,submitted marriage photos,wedding card & the fixed deposit certificate mentioning my wife as my nominee.
Doesn't really make sense. If they are not ready to believe on your marriage certificate, wedding card and photos...and if they think that this could be sham or fake marriages...then surely they won't believe on fixed deposit certificate of some amount....

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marriage is subsiting

Post by puneetdwd » Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:49 pm

I agree with destination_London.

It just formality to show chat log, email phone bill etc. its not a solid ground to prove marriage is subsiting.
I guess its all depends on the caseworker mood..if he is in good mood he would satisfy with the docs provided.
Even he is in bad mood, he will get confussed with extra (additonal docs eg chat,phone) documents.

The imigration law should clearly state what evidence would be conisdered as marriage is subsiting proof.
Why Genuine people suffer...being apart from their loved one!?
P

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Post by destiniation_london » Fri Jul 23, 2010 6:37 pm

If you check the Annexure A of form VF10 for Tier 1 dependant -

it says provide evidence to prove your relationship to main applicant

also mentions that -

unless single provide evidence of your marital status e.g. marriage or civil certificate...

So according to it, submission of marriage certificate should be sufficient...

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Post by kunal parikh » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:36 pm

Hi

My wife has also got the rejection. we jsut got married last month and put up her file...however, we did not put any wedding pics as it was not mentioned anywhere...

Its better to appeal rather than making new application as if they may reject application again on the basis of something else...if all the documents then i think it willl go through in the appeal only...as initially they do the review again and come back to us in 8 weeks if everything is fine...if not then they will send to appeal..

Have you put ur file again?

thanks
Kunal

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Post by aruni4470 » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:53 pm


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